January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[Torie]

"No dice.  You can't avoid liability for asking to someone to do something illegal based on a novel "legal theory" if you know perfectly well that theory is bogus to begin with, just because a court hasn't ruled on it yet."

OK. If you ever write (or find) a legal memo on the topic,* I would appreciate being forwarded a copy.

Nice chatting with you. And even though we failed to resolve, or even narrow, our disagreement, we still managed to converse without calling each other an idiot, or a fascist, or a sociopath, or a bigot. Amazing isn't it?  


*Oh, one more question. Do you think that Pence would have committed a crime if he had been persuaded by the bogus Eastman theory, and adjourned the count for 10 days? The point I guess being that not all things that one does that are illegal, or beyond one's power, are necessarily crimes.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

“Whoever corruptly … obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512#c_2

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

We already know this but it's blanks in the law that Lawyers use Trumo can justify his actions that he wasn't present at the preceding and why did the insurrection get off with light sentences we already know from the Mueller probe that Don Jr met with Russian Oligarchy and got dirt on Hillary and didn't get indicted why because since Jay E Hoover the DOJ and FBI is headed by Federalist society and Garland is part of Federalist society

If the law was so clear cut then Don Jr would ha bee been indicted, you know why Don Jr didn't get indicted because he is close to Former SCOTUS JUSTICE KENNEDY, they say Don Jr gotten Kennedy to retire so his dad could appoint Kavanaugh, it just so happens that Kennedy retired out of the blue before 2020 the Rs we're worried about losing in 2020 and we all know what happened with Ginnsberg

There are loopholes, I am not arguing on Trump behalf you see.my ratings, by in Law School we as lawyers look for blanks in the law

[Torie]

“Whoever corruptly … obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512#c_2

Aside from whether standing upon frivolous legal theories until a court says no is "corrupt," the title of the linked statute is:

18 U.S. Code § 1512 - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant

[emailking]

What about just conspiracy? If they knew it was illegal and knew they would lose in court (and we've heard testimony for both) and try anyway, can't that apply?

[Torie]

What about just conspiracy? If they knew it was illegal and knew they would lose in court (and we've heard testimony for both) and try anyway, can't that apply?

Same reason as above. OK, it is frivolous, but you get your day in court, and it is not done in secret, but on the world stage open to all, so everybody knows (no cover up), and will  be dealt with expeditiously. You know, there is some really weird stuff going on out there, that with a conservative SCOTUS, is suddenly in play, like the Independent State Legislative Theory.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/independent-state-legislature-theory-explained

Anyway, as we go round and round on this, checking out to find if any doors are unlocked in the hotel hallway, we will find out whether Garland indicts or not on this theory. Either he agrees with Torie, or he is a wimp (he thinks Trump is a felon, but is afraid to roil the public square on this, or Trump, etc.), or both, or something.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Trump had his day in many different courts constantly for months and lost almost every single time.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1538509487832711169

Wow. Do we think the Justice Department will now go after him? Now that they seem to have popular backing to?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

“Whoever corruptly … obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512#c_2

Aside from whether standing upon frivolous legal theories until a court says no is "corrupt," the title of the linked statute is:

18 U.S. Code § 1512 - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant

The relevant statute is 18 U.S. Code § 372 - Conspiracy to impede or injure officer

If two or more persons in any State, Territory, Possession, or District conspire to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof, or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to leave the place, where his duties as an officer are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties, each of such persons shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six years, or both.

Wire fraud (for defrauding his supporters by lying to them about the election, and about what he was doing with the donations to his non-existent "Election Defense Fund") is also a strong contender.

But the real key is to get a prosecutor and judge who refuse to play Trump's game, and who respond to obstruction with charges of obstruction instead of endless rounds of playing pattycake.

[Koharu]

FYI, Judge Luttig was not having health concerns. He chose to speak that way intentionally, and even made fun of himself a little in this thread explaining it:

https://twitter.com/judgeluttig/status/1538266515107106816


I was driving while the hearing was going on, and listening to him was extremely frustrating, though for me it was mostly because he also seemed to not answer the questions being asked combined with the slow pace. He provided important information--just in a very round-about way. Watching the video when I got home, it was easier to handle, as then I could see he was choosing his words carefully, and his face indicated to me a sharp mind yet. :)

Looking forward to tomorrow's hearing, as each of these has had information that wasn't available to the public at the time.

Definitely been hearing several former prosecutors talking about the possibility of wire fraud charges, which is definitely interesting.

[Inmate Trump]

If there was no medical issue, then I just don’t get why he spoke that way.

Whatever he said was lost because no one could follow him solely due to the way he chose to speak.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1538877689104408576

I've said the same thing before.  That was a terrible tactical political decision by McCarthy.

[President Johnson]

https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1538877689104408576

I've said the same thing before.  That was a terrible tactical political decision by McCarthy.

Maybe for Republicans, though many of their members would have turned the committee into a clown show. Way too serious business for PR stunts and their BS.

[Torie]

So per reading the above news, Trump is watching the hearings, and they're discommoding him - perhaps even to the point of making the sociopath sweat a tad, which is no mean feat. Life is beautiful.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1538975691961663491

[Frodo]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1538509487832711169

Wow. Do we think the Justice Department will now go after him? Now that they seem to have popular backing to?

Perhaps they are waiting until after the hearings are completed.

https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1538877689104408576
I've said the same thing before.  That was a terrible tactical political decision by McCarthy.

Even Trump can see it.  McCarthy could have sabotaged the investigation from the get-go ostensibly in the name of 'bipartisanship', and smothered it before it ever got to this stage.  Oh well, too late now.    

[Roll Roons]

Even Trump can see it.  McCarthy could have sabotaged the investigation from the get-go ostensibly in the name of 'bipartisanship', and smothered it before it ever got to this stage.  Oh well, too late now.   

Congressional leadership has made no secret of their disdain for Trump.

I'm not sure how capable McCarthy is of playing 4-D chess, but I wonder if he decided to let Pelosi unilaterally call the shots so Dems (plus Cheney and Kinzinger) could do the dirty work of getting Trump out of the picture.

[Frodo]

Even Trump can see it.  McCarthy could have sabotaged the investigation from the get-go ostensibly in the name of 'bipartisanship', and smothered it before it ever got to this stage.  Oh well, too late now.    

Congressional leadership has made no secret of their disdain for Trump.

I'm not sure how capable McCarthy is of playing 4-D chess, but I wonder if he decided to let Pelosi unilaterally call the shots so Dems (plus Cheney and Kinzinger) could do the dirty work of getting Trump out of the picture.

IIRC, McCarthy wanted to appoint Trumpster congressmen like Jim Jordan to the commission last year (I wonder why....).  Pelosi said no dice, so he pulled out of negotiations:

McCarthy pulls all Republicans from January 6 Select Committee after Pelosi rejects two picks

So yes, I think he certainly would have done exactly what I suggested had Pelosi been stupid enough to allow him to.  

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1539201045712314369

[riceowl]

I mean Republicans are under oath saying that Trump's Truths from 1 HOUR AGO are false. What more do we need?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Rusty Bowers (the Arizona House Speaker) is a very compelling witness.

[Koharu]

Rusty Bowers (the Arizona House Speaker) is a very compelling witness.

I was just going to say the same. I may not agree with him on much politically, but I think his modesty and dedication to his oath make him one of the most compelling witnesses thus far.

[LBJer]

Rusty Bowers (the Arizona House Speaker) is a very compelling witness.

I was just going to say the same. I may not agree with him on much politically, but I think his modesty and dedication to his oath make him one of the most compelling witnesses thus far.

Same here.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1539311212969611265

[riceowl]

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1539311212969611265

And then promptly saying that there should be more Republicans on the panel and both sides but Kavanaugh back to you Jon Turley.