Pentagon keeping current ban on pride flag

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

The Pentagon confirmed Friday it will not allow rainbow pride flags to fly at military facilities in celebration of Pride Month. That fell in line with the Pentagon's 2020 decision to permit only certain flags at Department of Defense installations.

Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby told reporters the DOD chose not to make an exception to the existing flag policy after careful consideration.

Along with the American flag, the current policy implemented under the Trump administration authorizes flags representing states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies and a handful of others.

"This in no way reflects any lack of respect or admiration for people of the LGBTQ+ community, personnel in and out of uniform who serve in this department," Kirby said. "We're proud of them."

The flag policy was put into place last July to bar the display of the Confederate flag without specifically referencing it, as NPR previously reported.

Kirby said making an exception for the rainbow pride flag could leave the Pentagon open for additional policy challenges down the road. "This was really more about the potential for — an exception in this case about the potential for other challenges that could arise from that exception," he said.

[...]

In 2018, the Rand Corp. estimated that 6.3% of active duty service members identified as gay, lesbian or bisexual, including 4.1% of men and 17.6% of women.

NPR

Sad and disappointing. What's their rationale, that people will start demanding trans and BLM flags?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

In 2018, the Rand Corp. estimated that 6.3% of active duty service members identified as gay, lesbian or bisexual, including 4.1% of men and 17.6% of women.

Quite a difference there. The Women's Army Corps legacy lives on!

[President Johnson]

I have mixed feelings about this. Possibly because they want to keep the military apolitical (which it should be).

[Crumpets]

Wait, so all those "on this drone we believe love wins, etc." memes were just dumb and contrived?

[If my soul was made of stone]

Maybe I should oppose this in theory, but remembering my violent reaction to Raytheon adopting a pride-themed Twitter profile picture earlier this month gives me pause. It subverts the nature of pride to associate it with state violence and the forces that have oppressed it for so long.

[Green Line]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

According to Mr. R, the only way to constitutionally restrict the Confederate flag from the Pentagon was to ban all flags not related to states, territories, allied nations, military wings, or POW/MIA; to single out the Confederate flag would be unconstitutional.

Not quite sure how this argument would apply to public venues...

[LtNOWIS]

Sad and disappointing. What's their rationale, that people will start demanding trans and BLM flags?

The rationale is simple. They wanted to ban the Confederate flag recently, but instead of banning it specifically under Trump, they just banned all flags except the ones Green Line just outlined.

But it makes sense to keep it this way, because otherwise they'd have to become the Flag Police and determine which ones are ok and which ones aren't. Actual white supremacists could have any number of ones that are like the Confederate flag but aren't. You'd probably also see the Black Lives Matter flag and the "thin blue line" police flag, which would cause disputes. You'd probably have to allow both or allow neither in those cases, and allowing neither is much easier. And all these flags can be infinitely combined or modified.

[7,052,770]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

The pride flag is everywhere. Excluding it is the political statement.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Adding to what Mr. R's been telling me: the policy in question question applies to private vehicles on base and private dwellings on base, which cannot be argued to be government speech. So if there is a countervailing reason for banning such private speech, it must be fairly applied.

[LtNOWIS]

Maybe I should oppose this in theory, but remembering my violent reaction to Raytheon adopting a pride-themed Twitter profile picture earlier this month gives me pause. It subverts the nature of pride to associate it with state violence and the forces that have oppressed it for so long.

I hate to invoke the "horseshoe theory" this, it's applicable here. You have people from the center left to center right broadly saying "the military should be for everyone and it's good that we have people joining from HBCUs, openly gay people serving, trans people joining up again, etc." But you have the far right and far left both agreeing with the premise that "No the military is an oppressive and reactionary force that does exist on one side of the political spectrum. Only right wing goons should be in the military, or at the very least other people should be as invisible as possible."

I've met a staggeringly high number of LGBT people in the military. They're the same as anyone else, regular folks who joined for their own reasons. Some patriotism, some nebulous desire to prove themselves, a lot of wanting a job and a college education. It's unfortunate that people treat their mere existence in the military as "political," a full 10 years after they could start serving openly. And it's unfortunate that they can't display an important aspect of their identity on their barracks window or outside their family home on base, even if this policy is logical overall.

[Green Line]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

The pride flag is everywhere. Excluding it is the political statement.

Yes, the pride flag is everywhere because corporate America is obsessed with making political statements.  That Nike and McDonalds do it doesn't make it less of one.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Flag of gay acceptance = not okay

POW/MIA flag designed to promote a radical far-right conspiracy theory after the Vietnam War = okay for every f***ing Post Office in America

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Sad and disappointing. What's their rationale, that people will start demanding trans and BLM flags?

The rationale is simple. They wanted to ban the Confederate flag recently, but instead of banning it specifically under Trump, they just banned all flags except the ones Green Line just outlined.

But it makes sense to keep it this way, because otherwise they'd have to become the Flag Police and determine which ones are ok and which ones aren't. Actual white supremacists could have any number of ones that are like the Confederate flag but aren't. You'd probably also see the Black Lives Matter flag and the "thin blue line" police flag, which would cause disputes. You'd probably have to allow both or allow neither in those cases, and allowing neither is much easier. And all these flags can be infinitely combined or modified.

Why are white supremacists on camo welfare in the first place? I thought the military was supposed to have a rigorous screening process?

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Doing their part to keep the pride in Pride.

[7,052,770]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

The pride flag is everywhere. Excluding it is the political statement.

Yes, the pride flag is everywhere because corporate America is obsessed with making political statements.  That Nike and McDonalds do it doesn't make it less of one.

I guess you could call default things like the American flag or the gay pride flag "political" in a technical sense, but that's not what's generally meant when people talk about going political.

Not displaying those default flags is a far more political stance that displaying them.

[Green Line]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

The pride flag is everywhere. Excluding it is the political statement.

Yes, the pride flag is everywhere because corporate America is obsessed with making political statements.  That Nike and McDonalds do it doesn't make it less of one.

I guess you could call default things like the American flag or the gay pride flag "political" in a technical sense, but that's not what's generally meant when people talk about going political.

Not displaying those default flags is a far more political stance that displaying them.

The American Flag is the national flag of the United States, codified in law.  The pride flag doesn't have any official status, its just a symbol for a social movement - same as the thin blue line flag.  Nobody in their right minds thinks the US military displaying the US flag is "political", lol, at least in the context of domestic American political discourse.  If you can't see the difference between the two I am worried for you.

[Joe Republic]

My goodness, I wish Americans would care as much about things that actually matter as they do about flags.

[7,052,770]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

The pride flag is everywhere. Excluding it is the political statement.

Yes, the pride flag is everywhere because corporate America is obsessed with making political statements.  That Nike and McDonalds do it doesn't make it less of one.

I guess you could call default things like the American flag or the gay pride flag "political" in a technical sense, but that's not what's generally meant when people talk about going political.

Not displaying those default flags is a far more political stance that displaying them.

The American Flag is the national flag of the United States, codified in law.  The pride flag doesn't have any official status, its just a symbol for a social movement - same as the thin blue line flag.  Nobody in their right minds thinks the US military displaying the US flag is "political", lol, at least in the context of domestic American political discourse.  If you can't see the difference between the two I am worried for you.

That's my point. Only an out-of-touch dufus would think the American flag or the gay pride flag are "political," since they're so well-established, ubiquitous, and default.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I have mixed feelings about this. Possibly because they want to keep the military apolitical (which it should be).

No flags other than the US flag should be flying at any military installation, other than the flag of the state that the installation is located in. No flag should be flying at any military base, Embassy, etc. in foreign lands except the American flag.

[Green Line]

Good.  The current policy, "states and U.S. territories, military services, prisoners of war and missing in action, national flags of U.S. allies" makes total sense.  No need to start expanding it to include every social issue under the sun.  The military shouldn't be political.

The pride flag is everywhere. Excluding it is the political statement.

Yes, the pride flag is everywhere because corporate America is obsessed with making political statements.  That Nike and McDonalds do it doesn't make it less of one.

I guess you could call default things like the American flag or the gay pride flag "political" in a technical sense, but that's not what's generally meant when people talk about going political.

Not displaying those default flags is a far more political stance that displaying them.

The American Flag is the national flag of the United States, codified in law.  The pride flag doesn't have any official status, its just a symbol for a social movement - same as the thin blue line flag.  Nobody in their right minds thinks the US military displaying the US flag is "political", lol, at least in the context of domestic American political discourse.  If you can't see the difference between the two I am worried for you.

That's my point. Only an out-of-touch dufus would think the American flag or the gay pride flag are "political," since they're so well-established, ubiquitous, and default.

Ok, now I know you're just being deliberately obtuse to play devils advocate.  Bye.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

POW/MIA flag designed to promote a radical far-right conspiracy theory after the Vietnam War = okay for every f***ing Post Office in America

[Badger]

POW/MIA flag designed to promote a radical far-right conspiracy theory after the Vietnam War = okay for every f***ing Post Office in America

This is correct actually. This was a 1970s and grew into 1980s BS conspiracy theory made Popular by Rambo movies among others oh, that the sneaky sneaky inscrutable Asian North Vietnamese were still holding some of our brave boys captive because... Well, because they are bad guys and communist you see.

[Fuzzy Bear]

POW/MIA flag designed to promote a radical far-right conspiracy theory after the Vietnam War = okay for every f***ing Post Office in America

This is correct actually. This was a 1970s and grew into 1980s BS conspiracy theory made Popular by Rambo movies among others oh, that the sneaky sneaky inscrutable Asian North Vietnamese were still holding some of our brave boys captive because... Well, because they are bad guys and communist you see.

It did, however, demonstrate solidarity with families of POWs and MIAs whose whereabouts have never been confirmed.  It was a source of comfort to many of these families.  And the difference between this issue and others is that it was our Government for whom they fought and were captured and/or died.

Our POWs that came back DID suffer torture.  I suspect you care not one whit about that.  They weren't liberals.  They were brave, they were held captive, and the North Vietnamese DID ignore all standards set by the Geneva Convention as to how to treat Prisoners of War.  Perhaps you could recognize that.  

[DrScholl]

POW/MIA flag designed to promote a radical far-right conspiracy theory after the Vietnam War = okay for every f***ing Post Office in America

This is correct actually. This was a 1970s and grew into 1980s BS conspiracy theory made Popular by Rambo movies among others oh, that the sneaky sneaky inscrutable Asian North Vietnamese were still holding some of our brave boys captive because... Well, because they are bad guys and communist you see.

It did, however, demonstrate solidarity with families of POWs and MIAs whose whereabouts have never been confirmed.  It was a source of comfort to many of these families.  And the difference between this issue and others is that it was our Government for whom they fought and were captured and/or died.

Our POWs that came back DID suffer torture.  I suspect you care not one whit about that.  They weren't liberals.  They were brave, they were held captive, and the North Vietnamese DID ignore all standards set by the Geneva Convention as to how to treat Prisoners of War.  Perhaps you could recognize that.  

How do you know this? Not everyone who fought in the war was conservative. Stop making such absurd statements.