Keir Starmer and Erin O'Toole

[beesley]

I realise this thread could become a gold mine for bad takes, but (in what ways) are Keir Starmer and Erin O'Toole comparable (as leaders, not in terms of views)? I would argue many of their similarities are coincidental but they are comparable.

Some of those similarities might be:
-Trying to be all things to all people, holding unstable coalitions together.
-Both have struggled at the above due to two extreme wings. Although Starmer has enough support among the soft-left, the hardcore SCG are dissatisfied. O'Toole seems to have brought the Lewis supporters on board, but not the PPC/Sloan wing, though they aren't exactly relevant.
-Relatively vanilla and unremarkable, but exacerbated by having little opportunity to prove themselves in a pandemic and against more flamboyant leaders
-Both in the sweet spot between having not especially good poll numbers (notwithstanding any ability to improve) but not doing catastrophically enough to force them out.
-Both seen as reliant on parts of the country they cannot reach - the places where they might make gains are not enough in themselves (e.g. Southern England and the Maritimes) - this is debatable. Additionally, both struggling against nationalists in Scotland and Quebec.
-Both are struggling partly because their party's brand isn't great, indicative of a larger problem than just them.

Some of the differences:
-O'Toole is just as right-wing as his predecessor, whereas Starmer is not seen as left-wing by supporters of his predecessor.
-Being associated with the extreme wing of their party is possibly more damaging to O'Toole than Starmer.
-Starmer has been subjected to far more leadership speculation, partly due to by-elections which Labour performed badly in, whereas the CPC almost won York Centre which has been largely forgotten about.
-Ideologically they are obviously different.

[Geoffrey Howe]

Don't know enough about Canadian politics, but this seems like a good comparison. One thing I would add is that is that Boris has shot Starmer's fox somewhat by moving to the left (or at least people talk about it a lot), whereas I understand Trudeau too has moved to the left - so perhaps not eating up the Blue Tories.

[Conservatopia]

O'Toole is definitely to the left of Scheer but overall this seems like a good comparison.  Both have the advantage of having no obvious rival ready to take them on for the leadership.

[mileslunn]

I think in general Labour of UK and Tories of Canada have a lot in common is both plagued by factionalism, both struggle to appeal to median voter.  Tories in UK and Liberals in Canada by contrast are about winning and seem to unite party even with some factions and more importantly are not too wedded to an ideology and can move to where they think public is. 

Also both have problem as country is moving away from where they are.  Canada is seeing a big shift left while UK like most of Europe is moving rightward (although more on cultural less on economic).  Big difference though is at least Labour doing well amongst younger voters so at least hope in future while Tories in Canada are third here so future looks even bleaker for them.

[CumbrianLefty]

Don't know enough about O'Toole to comment, but part of the growing unhappiness with Starmer is the self inflicted avoidable errors he and his team have made. People accept he had a tough gig, made more so by the peculiar Covid age we live in, but that doesn't excuse some stuff.

On a more positive note, his big TV interview the other day appeared to go well - and tbh rather raises the question of why he hasn't done more of that sort of thing before (but then again, see above)

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think the difference is Canada suffers from intense regionalization while contemporary Britain (or at least, England) is experiencing the opposite.