2020: President Hillary Clinton/VP Tim Kaine vs Sen. Mike Pence/Gov. Ron DeSantis
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  2020: President Hillary Clinton/VP Tim Kaine vs Sen. Mike Pence/Gov. Ron DeSantis
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Author Topic: 2020: President Hillary Clinton/VP Tim Kaine vs Sen. Mike Pence/Gov. Ron DeSantis  (Read 1118 times)
BigVic
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« on: May 22, 2021, 07:55:13 PM »

In 2016, Clinton narrowly defeats Trump 278-260 winning WI, MI and PA. The GOP holds the house and the Dems win the Senate 50-50. The 2018 midterms sees the GOP take back the Senate 57-43.

Clinton easily wins the Dem nomination in 2020 with no primary opposition. Senator Mike Pence wins the GOP nomination with his VP nominee FL Gov Ron DeSantis.

Who wins? Discuss with maps.
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America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS
Solid4096
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2021, 07:56:23 PM »

Pence wins easily.
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BigVic
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2021, 08:10:05 PM »
« Edited: May 23, 2021, 01:00:16 AM by BigVic »



Senator Mike Pence (R-IN)/Governor Ron DeSantis (R-FL) 328 (50.4%)
President Hillary Clinton (D-NY)*/Vice President Tim Kaine (D-VA) 210 (48.2%)
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021, 07:33:02 AM »
« Edited: May 23, 2021, 07:50:18 AM by Alben Barkley »

I'm going to go against the grain here and say Hillary is the slight favorite.

Let's consider the following factors:

1. The nation was and is extremely polarized along partisan lines; it seems there is little either party can actually do that has a major impact on voting patterns either way. And in general, Democrats are favored to win the popular vote and at least come close to winning the electoral vote since 1988; the nation as a whole is D +2/3 right now in a neutral environment, not entirely even. So all else equal, you should assume the Democrat is going to get more votes and go from there; I am totally skeptical of claims that Pence would have EASILY beaten her even though he could have won due to the increasing split between the popular and electoral vote.

2. Trump largely avoided ever sinking to all-time lows in popularity mainly because of both number 1 and because the economy was still pretty good for the most part under his presidency; there is little reason to think that would have changed much for the worse with Hillary.

3. Combining 1 and 2, and taking it as a given that Hillary obviously won the popular vote by at least as much as she did anyway AND probably won the EC by about as much as Biden did, at least, it's not hard to imagine that her approval ratings would basically be a mirror of Trump's, much like Biden's are now.

4. Most world leaders and even US governors saw a boost in their popularity and electoral fortunes following COVID; Trump was uniquely unmoved or even damaged by the pandemic in that regard, and given it's almost a certainty Hillary would have handled the pandemic FAR better, it actually could have been a boon to her.

5. Incumbents are generally favored, and Trump came very close to continuing that pattern and winning again despite everything, and probably could have if not for a few major blunders on his part that Hillary almost certainly would have avoided.

6. Mike Pence is an extremely boring man who would not at all rile up the GOP base in the same way that Trump did, which was JUST BARELY enough to win once (and wasn't enough to win again) anyway. Thus it is not hard to imagine his campaign would more closely resemble Mitt Romney's 2012 campaign than either of Trump's.

7. If the GOP aggressively obstructed Hillary at every turn, even when it came to things like SCOTUS appointments, as they suggested they planned to do (leaving a seat open for four years!), that is likely to exasperate swing voters. Likewise, most of the fear-mongering they did about how Hillary was all but literally the devil would have proven untrue quite quickly under her administration; voters would have seen how benign and banal she really is and become accustomed to her, perhaps even taken a shine to her, after four years. Major contrast to Trump who basically confirmed everything the Democrats warned about him every day with every Tweet, etc.

As a result, I think the following is the single most likely map, give or take a few states:

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BigVic
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2021, 07:16:26 PM »

I'm going to go against the grain here and say Hillary is the slight favorite.

Let's consider the following factors:

1. The nation was and is extremely polarized along partisan lines; it seems there is little either party can actually do that has a major impact on voting patterns either way. And in general, Democrats are favored to win the popular vote and at least come close to winning the electoral vote since 1988; the nation as a whole is D +2/3 right now in a neutral environment, not entirely even. So all else equal, you should assume the Democrat is going to get more votes and go from there; I am totally skeptical of claims that Pence would have EASILY beaten her even though he could have won due to the increasing split between the popular and electoral vote.

2. Trump largely avoided ever sinking to all-time lows in popularity mainly because of both number 1 and because the economy was still pretty good for the most part under his presidency; there is little reason to think that would have changed much for the worse with Hillary.

3. Combining 1 and 2, and taking it as a given that Hillary obviously won the popular vote by at least as much as she did anyway AND probably won the EC by about as much as Biden did, at least, it's not hard to imagine that her approval ratings would basically be a mirror of Trump's, much like Biden's are now.

4. Most world leaders and even US governors saw a boost in their popularity and electoral fortunes following COVID; Trump was uniquely unmoved or even damaged by the pandemic in that regard, and given it's almost a certainty Hillary would have handled the pandemic FAR better, it actually could have been a boon to her.

5. Incumbents are generally favored, and Trump came very close to continuing that pattern and winning again despite everything, and probably could have if not for a few major blunders on his part that Hillary almost certainly would have avoided.

6. Mike Pence is an extremely boring man who would not at all rile up the GOP base in the same way that Trump did, which was JUST BARELY enough to win once (and wasn't enough to win again) anyway. Thus it is not hard to imagine his campaign would more closely resemble Mitt Romney's 2012 campaign than either of Trump's.

7. If the GOP aggressively obstructed Hillary at every turn, even when it came to things like SCOTUS appointments, as they suggested they planned to do (leaving a seat open for four years!), that is likely to exasperate swing voters. Likewise, most of the fear-mongering they did about how Hillary was all but literally the devil would have proven untrue quite quickly under her administration; voters would have seen how benign and banal she really is and become accustomed to her, perhaps even taken a shine to her, after four years. Major contrast to Trump who basically confirmed everything the Democrats warned about him every day with every Tweet, etc.

As a result, I think the following is the single most likely map, give or take a few states:



I can see this map happening
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Chips
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 10:19:03 PM »

I agree with BigVic's map more.
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GeoGodleyOfficial
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 04:13:50 PM »

Mike Fence narrowly Wins
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Shaula🏳️‍⚧️
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2021, 01:51:00 AM »

Major contrast to Trump who basically confirmed everything the Democrats warned about him every day with every Tweet, etc.
LMAO I don't like Trump but people were saying he would become a dictator and start WW3, how did him tweeting confirm everything Democrat warned?
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Agonized-Statism
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2021, 04:47:34 PM »


President Hillary Clinton (D-NY) / Vice President Tim Kaine (D-VA)
Senator Mike Pence (R-IN) / Governor Ron DeSantis (R-FL) ✓

Like Biden, Pence underperforms, but worse. This would be a more effective ticket if it was flipped.
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Karenthecomputer
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2021, 04:50:31 PM »

How exactly does Pence become a Senator? Does he run for the open seat in 2016 instead of running for a second term as Governor? Or does he defeat Donnelly in 2018?

Either way, he would likely be seen as an office jumper.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2021, 12:35:02 AM »




I'm inclined to think COVID would be a political death sentence for any incumbent, no matter how competently the pandemic was handled. Besides, you'd have Republicans by the truckload refusing to take basic health and safety precautions for political reasons, just like IRL.

Mike Pence/Ron DeSantis (R) 49%
Hillary Clinton/Tim Kaine (D) 46%

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Vice President Christian Man
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2021, 10:07:04 PM »
« Edited: August 11, 2021, 10:13:19 PM by Christian Man »



Senator Mike Pence/Gov. Ron Desantis 328 EV/51.9% P.V
P. Hillary Clinton/V.P. Tim Kaine 210 EV/46.3%

Edit: Just realized I had the same map as OPs, but some of the %s are different.
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