This Wretched Hive Of Scum And Villainy

[Conservatopia]

I find it very weird that some Tories are trying to pivot blame towards Corrie Johnson almost painting her as a lady Macbeth like figure that led Boris astray despite it making little sense.

Generally Carrie is accused of shifting the PM towards the net zero policy and other green stuff which is very unpopular amongst the Party Right.  Dropping Net Zero is something Boris is apparently considering to win over Tory MPs.

With regards to Partygate, whilst the PM is of course ultimately responsible for what goes on in No 10, it is a fact that Carrie was the driving force behind at least one of the parties.

So I don't agree with the attempt to blame Carrie but I do understand its background.

Johnson is appointing MPs (Guto Harri and Steve Barclay) as his staff replacements, which seems odd.

It makes sense really.

Nobody from outside Parliament wants to join an operation that is sinking.  They would only be in their jobs for a couple of months before Johnson gets pushed.

It feels a bit like the end of May's premiership when she kept having to replace resigning government people with unknowns.

[TheTide]

It feels a bit like the end of May's premiership when she kept having to replace resigning government people with unknowns.

One of whom was........Steve Barclay.

[Blair]

I find it very weird that some Tories are trying to pivot blame towards Corrie Johnson almost painting her as a lady Macbeth like figure that led Boris astray despite it making little sense.

It is part of a long running trend; the idea that 'our' Boris is being corrupted/influenced by various outside forces & that he just needs to be steered back on track. These are people who forget that he has always been from the 'one-nation' wing of the party and isn't a natural headbanger.

She is facing the same thing that Cummings faced; when you're unpopular in Westminster your name gets attached to a lot of stuff you're not responsible for because it's easier to blame someone who is already hated.

There is also the fact however that Carrie has clearly engaged in stupid acts that have caused problem after problem; the wallpaper in Downing Street, the vicious war against Cummings, the parties being investigated by the Police.

[CumbrianLefty]

Johnson is appointing MPs (Guto Harri and Steve Barclay) as his staff replacements, which seems odd.

Ahem, when did Guto Harri ever become an MP??

[TheTide]

Johnson is appointing MPs (Guto Harri and Steve Barclay) as his staff replacements, which seems odd.

Ahem, when did Guto Harri ever become an MP??

Mixed up with Guto Bebb (who also isn't an MP, at least not now) it seems.

[TheTide]

This is the first picture of this 'Harry Newman' character (a mate of Carrie Johnson) that I've ever seen.



He rather puts aside the rule about politics being showbusiness for ugly people, I must say  And he's now working for Michael Gove.

[Torrain]

Weird, but perhaps interesting part of the reshuffle, that feels more suited to a discussion of the parliamentary party than UK politics at large:

https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1491129115940102146

Guess this is the latest attempt to get the 2019 cohort on side - something along the lines of "We're listening to you, and willing to promote you if you stay loyal." Johnson can't hand peerages or knighthoods to junior MPs, but he's clearly willing to offer them the first rung on the ministerial ladder.

I imagine the next week will show whether these moves help stabilise Johnson's premiership for a time, or whether we'll look back on this reshuffle as one of Johnson's last attempts to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic.

[Blair]

My very boring take is that it is actually a very bad trend that PPS’ have been taken over by very junior MPs who see it as a stepping stone- when it was actually traditionally often an old seasoned hand or someone will like in the Parliamentary party.

Blair iirc had a former deputy chief whip.

[Silent Hunter]

They traditionally got their heads cut off in shots of the front bench, but the camera angles in the Commons are different these days.

[Torrain]

New position from Ian Duncan Smith. IDS has spent the past week warning against a leadership challenge, suggesting that the destabilising influence to the party could majorly impact their chances (it all sounded very 2003).

But in an interview with the i (the slimmed down print version of the Independent), he's come down pretty hard about Johnson's position if he's fined by the Met.

Asked if the holder of the highest office could remain in post after being found to have broken the law he said: “That’s a decision made by my colleagues but I think it would be very tough for anyone to remain after that. If you’ve set the laws, and you break them and the police decide you have broken them… and then there’s the unredacted [Sue Gray] report – the two things will come together.”

He still seems hesitant elsewhere in the article, especially now the scandal is quieter. But it's interesting to see him take a harder line. Sure, the goalposts have been moved on a weekly basis since December, but hey, I'll take what I can get.

Edit: From what I've seen online, there seems to be a feeling among political journalists with Tory sources (read: the Telegraph), that IDS hasn't had a 'come to Jesus' moment, as much as he is airing publicly what the backbenches have been saying privately over the past couple of days.

[Conservatopia]

Torrain if there is a leadership election would you join (re-join?) the party? Or have you completely left behind the party? Who would you vote for out of Sunak, Truss, Hunt and Raab?

[Torrain]

Torrain if there is a leadership election would you join (re-join?) the party? Or have you completely left behind the party? Who would you vote for out of Sunak, Truss, Hunt and Raab?

Ah, that’s a question…

There is a world where I can support the Conservatives again - but not in this cycle, and probably not the next either.

I don’t fully want to give up on those who I got into politics alongside in Glasgow. There was a real feeling of change there - a group of working and lower-middle class students who could feel welcome in the more moderate, progressive party environment created by Davidson. The problem is that most of them have dropped off the scene, alienated by Johnson. Whether they return, and me with them, depends... If the situation is salvageable, and I can move back to Scotland full time, I may still give it a shot. But if the party goes more Dorries than Davidson, it might be a lost cause above the border.

As it is, I did briefly consider re-upping my membership to the Scottish branch, as a show of support for Douglas Ross, after he took a stand against Johnson earlier in the year. But I’m aware that Johnson is looking for any political lifeline, and I’d not want to be cited in PMQ as among “the thousands of new members who’ve joined the party since 2021!” or something like that.

The other issue right now is that there’s typically a several month threshold required before you can vote in leadership elections. Trust me, I initially joined formally to try and elect May (who I considered the far more serious, competent candidate) over Leadsom, before the latter dropped out. I was 18 and thought I was doing my civic duty - I was more idealistic then. There would be a chance that I pay my dues but get locked out of the process entirely.

[Torrain]

Who would you vote for out of Sunak, Truss, Hunt and Raab?

In terms of replacement PMs? I think I’d reluctantly back Sunak, still. While my support for May seems poor in hindsight, I stand by the principles that brought me to that conclusion. If you’re going to take over as PM, you should have a period of service in high office that wasn’t a disaster, you should take it seriously, and if your personality is more ‘Gardner’s Question Time’ than ‘Game of Thrones’, all the better.

I think populism, especially the anti-expert, ‘having a lark’ approach taken by Johnson is responsible for some real damage, and given her antics (from the costume diplomacy to the tank photos), there’s something more style than substance to Truss I distrust.

Hunt seems to have gained a level head, between his time in the Foreign Office and chairmanship of the Health Committee, but his record on the NHS would bring him into office with a millstone (rightly) around his neck, and could cause some electoral mayhem. (I think the Tory party could do with a real slap on the wrist by the electorate soon, but don’t think that a Major/Hague style loss would necessarily benefit the country - a strong opposition party is typically a good check on Downing Street).

Raab wouldn’t be great. I think he’s been overly caricatured - I’ve heard him give testimony to the Foreign Affairs Committee, and he held up alright - but he’s still little more than a mouthpiece for Johnson, and lacks the seriousness we need amidst Ukraine and the loss of public trust in Government.

Sunak does hold of the same issues as Truss (lack of a clear ideology), and his personal fortune will clash with the current cost of living situation. But at the end of the day, I still think he’s the most competent of the four. I disliked his energy loan scheme, but his willingness to pull emergency levers during 2020 showed a willingness to buck party orthodoxy if there was a clear necessity. It would be reluctant - but he’s who I’d pull the lever for.

If I can be candid though? There’s another candidate for PM, who I could enthusiastically vote for, rather than through gritted teeth. A candidate with sensible foreign policy, a level head who seems to have a better handle on party disunity. He just happens to be standing at the opposing dispatch box.

I know you’re warmer on Truss than I am - is she your preferred candidate? Or do you have someone else in mind?

Edit: that was more of an essay than I planned. Apologies - Atlas and cider are not a wise combination…

[CumbrianLefty]

No problem, it was interesting to read.

[Conservatopia]

I think I’d reluctantly back Sunak, still.

To me he seems like the candidate with the best electoral prospects.

there’s something more style than substance to Truss I distrust.

I think she's a lightweight (like most of her cabinet colleagues are) but does a good job of hiding it.

Truss (lack of a clear ideology)

Soft disagree - one thing I will say for Truss is that she's been fairly consistent in her Britannia Unchained free-market liberalism outlook. She's just now starting to sprinkle some cultural conservatism in with that.

If I can be candid though? There’s another candidate for PM, who I could enthusiastically vote for, rather than through gritted teeth. A candidate with sensible foreign policy, a level head who seems to have a better handle on party disunity. He just happens to be standing at the opposing dispatch box.

I hate to admit it but I like him too - and I'm far-right so I imagine there's plenty of Tory centrists who think he's their preferred PM.

I know you’re warmer on Truss than I am - is she your preferred candidate? Or do you have someone else in mind?

I would probably vote for her in a Tory leadership election (though I am not a member at present) but it certainly wouldn't be enthusiastic and I would be easily persuaded by another candidate if they put forward a more ambitious reform agenda or were more socially conservative. If I were an MP I would vote for Steve Baker as a testimonial candidate, knowing full well he would never make it to the final two.  This isn't going to make me popular but my favourite politician is probably Nigel Farage.

Edit: that was more of an essay than I planned. Apologies - Atlas and cider are not a wise combination…

Thatcher's?

[Torrain]

Truss (lack of a clear ideology)

Soft disagree - one thing I will say for Truss is that she's been fairly consistent in her Britannia Unchained free-market liberalism outlook. She's just now starting to sprinkle some cultural conservatism in with that.

That's fair - that was a bad-faith argument from me. Speeches like this address to the Lowy Institute suggest that she does have a coherent strategy/ideology (using a combination of the free market and treaties to draw neutral and non-western nations into the UK/NATO spheres of influence), one that's more Thatcher than Johnson.

I think my concerns are more that she doesn't have the character, or leadership characteristics to back it up (see the aftermath of diplomatic efforts in Australia and Russia), which feed into the stereotype of her being a lightweight. I'm trying to watch my tone (and argument), because I do feel there is some sexism in that characterisation (all female Conservative ministers seem to end up caricatured in both the traditional and social media as either airheads, the Wicked Witch of the West or a mocking combination of the two, which is more than a tad troubling).

Additionally, her tenure as Justice Secretary, where she had some tussles with the independence of the judiciary, gives me pause, especially given the approach of the Conservatives since the 2019 prorogation.

Edit: that was more of an essay than I planned. Apologies - Atlas and cider are not a wise combination…

Thatcher's?

Älska, unfortunately (it's a long story). Thatchers would have been a good choice (as ever) this week though, given the spectre of a certain PM's departure seems to be looming over the party.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I just discovered the massive meme that was conservative MP Simon Burns who was also a huge democrat stan. he used the exact same "Won the argument but lost the vote" thing that Corbyn said after 2019. Just look at his house


https://order-order.com/2016/04/12/through-the-keyhole-simon-burns-shrine-to-hillary/

[Conservatopia]

Kenneth Clarke has a watch featuring Hillary's face on it.  He once showed it her and she was so shocked that she screamed loud enough that her security detail thought Clarke had attacked her.

Tory MPs are amongst the weirdest politicians in the world.

[Blair]

I remember reading one had 300 books on the Kennedy family and had even named his son after one of the brothers.

Which is ironic as the Kennedy’s are hated by Conservatives of a a certain age (my grandmother to this day insists Kennedy Snr was a ‘fascist’)

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I remember reading one had 300 books on the Kennedy family and had even named his son after one of the brothers.

Which is ironic as the Kennedy’s are hated by Conservatives of a a certain age (my grandmother to this day insists Kennedy Snr was a ‘fascist’)

How could one possibly read 300 books about one single family is a mystery to me.

[Torrain]

The Defence Secretary making a public deal of cancelling a family holiday to deal with Ukraine, which has gotten both the Evening Standard and the Telegraph politics team excited for some reason. Admirable yes, but only noteworthy because the implication is that Wallace is drawing a contrast (for the purpose of his fellow MPs) with Raab staying on holiday abroad during the fall of Kabul - which led to his fall from grace.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BWallaceMP/status/1492820627908177925
I promise I won’t keep pushing ‘surprise PM’ candidate Ben Wallace conspiracies in this thread, but given how much his stock has risen in the last month, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him as the defacto candidate for FCO Secretary under a new PM (who will either want to demote Truss, or be Truss herself, creating a vacancy), or at least floated as a consensus leadership candidate by a couple of backbenchers later in the year.

[TheTide]

I remember reading one had 300 books on the Kennedy family and had even named his son after one of the brothers.

Which is ironic as the Kennedy’s are hated by Conservatives of a a certain age (my grandmother to this day insists Kennedy Snr was a ‘fascist’)

How could one possibly read 300 books about one single family is a mystery to me.

Far more than 300 have been written about a single day in the life of a single member of the family, so in terms of options it can easily be done.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I'm wondering if there are any good books to learn about the conservative parties recent history ? preferably from someone which isn't written from an obviously partisan lense

[Cassius]

I'm wondering if there are any good books to learn about the conservative parties recent history ? preferably from someone which isn't written from an obviously partisan lense

The Conservative Party from Thatcher to Cameron by Tim Bale is a reasonably good summary of the period 1990-2010, although it was written and thus breaks off even before the coalition so it’s now a little dated (as is Bale’s boostering for the political dead end of ‘modernisation’, but that’s another story). I’ve not really read a lot of books about the politics of the last decade - the books in the Nuffield Elections Series about the elections of the last decade are good but very pricey unless you have free access to Springer Link. I enjoyed reading Tim Shipman’s accounts of the EU referendum and the first year of the May ministry but I believe that others on here have their doubts about those books and about Shipman. The inevitable problem really with any account of ‘recent’ politics is that it ages faster than a Mummy exposed to the elements, so they usually end up looking a little silly even a year or two down the line.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I'm wondering if there are any good books to learn about the conservative parties recent history ? preferably from someone which isn't written from an obviously partisan lense

The Conservative Party from Thatcher to Cameron by Tim Bale is a reasonably good summary of the period 1990-2010, although it was written and thus breaks off even before the coalition so it’s now a little dated (as is Bale’s boostering for the political dead end of ‘modernisation’, but that’s another story). I’ve not really read a lot of books about the politics of the last decade - the books in the Nuffield Elections Series about the elections of the last decade are good but very pricey unless you have free access to Springer Link. I enjoyed reading Tim Shipman’s accounts of the EU referendum and the first year of the May ministry but I believe that others on here have their doubts about those books and about Shipman. The inevitable problem really with any account of ‘recent’ politics is that it ages faster than a Mummy exposed to the elements, so they usually end up looking a little silly even a year or two down the line.

This is incredibly good advice, I was tearing my hair our for the last hour trying to figure out how I would be able to get those books before remembering to check my university institutional access and discovering that I did in fact have free access to Springer Link.  If only I had read your comment in time I could have saved a lot of time wasted in searching

I'll definitely check out the book and many more thanks to my new found free-accses.