I'm attending a protest action to voice support for Palestina on thursday

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I believe in peace certainly, and i'm not saying Palestina (and especially Hamas) doesn't make mistakes, but at this point, i feel like the retaliation attacks of Israel have nothing to do with defending theirselves, and they only make things worse. They create the idea and reinforce it and I feel like they try to "flame" Palestina in attacking them, in order that they can justify whatever they do at the moment in the long run. Right now, after decades and especially the latter years too, of disenfranchisement, isolation and apartheid politics, i feel like - esp. since international community support is very low - i have to be there to show people that there are still some people around that do care about them, that they're not the only ones in this conflict.

That being said, i don't think Judaism is at fault. I even don't think Israeli's are at fault. I don't feel like Palestinians are at fault. And I do feel Hamas also benefits from conflict, so I don't necessarily approve of them. But I do however understand the sentiment of Palestinians, and as a supporter of autonomy, freedom and democracy, i feel like Palestina has a right to exist as well. Currently the situation is unbearable and it needs to change. The main offender is the Israeli government, which is also guilty of spreading propaganda to educate their population that violence against Palestinians is necessary. I feel like they deliberately cause the conflict and makes it escalate, so that the attention could be drawn away from their resettlement politics, and it works clearly as many members of the international community have shown support for Israel, sometimes just because they're white and since there's a lot of anti-muslim sentiment around in the world. I feel like Palestina isn't treated in the correct way, and that it in fact - especially given the current circumstances - is one of the more moderate nations in the region, together with Kurdistan that should be seen as the greatest heroes of the 21st century as they're the main people that defeated IS while not even be a nation.

I think it is important - and i haven't that done enough - to make distinctions between people and governments, as well as between moderate and radical muslims. The truth is that we often see it as too simple and eventually generalize, and that we sometimes forget that people aren't like that, that they do care about a lot things we also believe in, and believe in freedom but I think one of the reasons muslims don't have a good reputation is both of the mess the Middle East is right now geopolitically and that is mainly our fault (Sykes-Picot, strategical reasons to divide the territory and not along ethnic or religious borders) as well as the enormous amount of religious propaganda from some radical muslim preachers. We must make the important distinction that we should fight hard back against radical muslims (Al Qaeda, the Taliban, IS and other terrorist organizations that do preach the eradication of other religions and their religion supremacy). As a liberal on social issues, i think it was wrong to blame other cultures and other religions for thier socially conservative stances (which I did as well for christians). In reality a free world can co-exist with religion, but those religions need intense reforms, even if we reform it from our nation and create a certain brand of western islamism, belgian christianity, or belgian judaism, in order to create the distinction from central branches of those churches. In practice, there are many muslims that are social liberal, and I approve of that. There are perhaps some muslims that are conservative yes, but so are other people from other religions too, and i don't have any issues with other conservatives. I do even respect them in some ways, but just like with religion, i feel an individual approach towards how you experience some values and norms might be better, as that is for me a core definition of "the freedom to express yourself the way you want". And if that's by being a transsexual, wearing a niqab or by being a conservative, so be it. I might not necessarily agree with it, but that's perhaps how freedom should be defined. I however am an advocate that a state takes more responsibility in training and nurturing children, and take more of the burden away from parents and more importantly the churches, as that was one of my main issues in that kids cannot express theirselves as long as parents do have a say in their nurturing (or force them to do things they don't necessarily want), and as it might decrease the numbers of child abuse and child neglect (which I personally experienced).

So it was important to explain that.

[Cassius]

Give my regards to Simon Bar Kokhba.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Palestina

What's with the spelling?

I feel like the retaliation attacks of Israel have nothing to do with defending theirselves, and they only make things worse.

On what are you basing this belief?  Both Hamas and Israel are in agreement that a large number of Hamas militants and officers have been killed by these retaliatory strikes.  And Israeli claims of weapons cache and Hamas military locations have not, to my knowledge, been disputed by Hamas itself -- only by Twitter users who just choose to believe that Israel is lying without any evidence.

If Israel isn't defending itself, then what, Israel is actively sabotaging its international reputation for the chance to kill a few dozen Palestinian civilians and blow up a few buildings for kicks?

But I do however understand the sentiment of Palestinians, and as a supporter of autonomy, freedom and democracy, i feel like Palestina has a right to exist as well.

We were pretty close to a two-state solution under the Oslo Accords, but Palestine refused to cross the finish line unless Israel allowed millions of Palestinians to move back to Israel and claim territory from pre-1948, which I don't consider a reasonable request.  The irony is that the current fighting is sparked by Jews claiming a few dozen houses to which they have a far stronger legal claim, and everyone is taking the Palestinians' side.  But Right of Return would have been that on a scale 100,000 times larger.

Palestine isn't interested in a two-state outcome except as a stepping stone to a one-state outcome.  Palestinian schoolchildren are taught that the entirety of Israel belongs to them and is simply being temporarily occupied by the Jews.

[Ancestral Republican]

Gmac really does just straight up hate Palestinians. That type of rhetoric is honestly on the same level of "Muslim Americans were cheering on 9/11!!" that we heard from Trump.

Meanwhile for those of us living in the real world, we can analyze the failings of the Israeli state, that destroying homes and depopulating Palestinian land over the past few decades which has obviously led to mass anger and tension boiling over on more than a few occasions (which Bibi is always happy to exploit and encourage in times of electoral trouble for himself.) What's sad is that for liberal Zionists like myself, there was an alternative reality where the Israeli state was not built on displacement and cultural genocide, but I do not believe that is possible now. Israel has destroyed too much.

[Chips]

I believe in peace certainly, and i'm not saying Palestina (and especially Hamas) doesn't make mistakes, but at this point, i feel like the retaliation attacks of Israel have nothing to do with defending theirselves, and they only make things worse. They create the idea and reinforce it and I feel like they try to "flame" Palestina in attacking them, in order that they can justify whatever they do at the moment in the long run. Right now, after decades and especially the latter years too, of disenfranchisement, isolation and apartheid politics, i feel like - esp. since international community support is very low - i have to be there to show people that there are still some people around that do care about them, that they're not the only ones in this conflict.

That being said, i don't think Judaism is at fault. I even don't think Israeli's are at fault. I don't feel like Palestinians are at fault. And I do feel Hamas also benefits from conflict, so I don't necessarily approve of them. But I do however understand the sentiment of Palestinians, and as a supporter of autonomy, freedom and democracy, i feel like Palestina has a right to exist as well. Currently the situation is unbearable and it needs to change. The main offender is the Israeli government, which is also guilty of spreading propaganda to educate their population that violence against Palestinians is necessary. I feel like they deliberately cause the conflict and makes it escalate, so that the attention could be drawn away from their resettlement politics, and it works clearly as many members of the international community have shown support for Israel, sometimes just because they're white and since there's a lot of anti-muslim sentiment around in the world. I feel like Palestina isn't treated in the correct way, and that it in fact - especially given the current circumstances - is one of the more moderate nations in the region, together with Kurdistan that should be seen as the greatest heroes of the 21st century as they're the main people that defeated IS while not even be a nation.

I think it is important - and i haven't that done enough - to make distinctions between people and governments, as well as between moderate and radical muslims. The truth is that we often see it as too simple and eventually generalize, and that we sometimes forget that people aren't like that, that they do care about a lot things we also believe in, and believe in freedom but I think one of the reasons muslims don't have a good reputation is both of the mess the Middle East is right now geopolitically and that is mainly our fault (Sykes-Picot, strategical reasons to divide the territory and not along ethnic or religious borders) as well as the enormous amount of religious propaganda from some radical muslim preachers. We must make the important distinction that we should fight hard back against radical muslims (Al Qaeda, the Taliban, IS and other terrorist organizations that do preach the eradication of other religions and their religion supremacy). As a liberal on social issues, i think it was wrong to blame other cultures and other religions for thier socially conservative stances (which I did as well for christians). In reality a free world can co-exist with religion, but those religions need intense reforms, even if we reform it from our nation and create a certain brand of western islamism, belgian christianity, or belgian judaism, in order to create the distinction from central branches of those churches. In practice, there are many muslims that are social liberal, and I approve of that. There are perhaps some muslims that are conservative yes, but so are other people from other religions too, and i don't have any issues with other conservatives. I do even respect them in some ways, but just like with religion, i feel an individual approach towards how you experience some values and norms might be better, as that is for me a core definition of "the freedom to express yourself the way you want". And if that's by being a transsexual, wearing a niqab or by being a conservative, so be it. I might not necessarily agree with it, but that's perhaps how freedom should be defined. I however am an advocate that a state takes more responsibility in training and nurturing children, and take more of the burden away from parents and more importantly the churches, as that was one of my main issues in that kids cannot express theirselves as long as parents do have a say in their nurturing (or force them to do things they don't necessarily want), and as it might decrease the numbers of child abuse and child neglect (which I personally experienced).

So it was important to explain that.

I actually basically agree with you on most if not all things said here.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Gmac really does just straight up hate Palestinians. That type of rhetoric is honestly on the same level of "Muslim Americans were cheering on 9/11!!" that we heard from Trump.

Meanwhile for those of us living in the real world, we can analyze the failings of the Israeli state, that destroying homes and depopulating Palestinian land over the past few decades which has obviously led to mass anger and tension boiling over on more than a few occasions (which Bibi is always happy to exploit and encourage in times of electoral trouble for himself.) What's sad is that for liberal Zionists like myself, there was an alternative reality where the Israeli state was not built on displacement and cultural genocide, but I do not believe that is possible now. Israel has destroyed too much.

I re-read my post and don't even know what part you could possibly be trying to compare to Trump's imagination.

That Palestinian schoolchildren are taught that all of Israel belongs to them is a statement of fact.  No one on either side of the argument would dispute this.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Palestinians everywhere thank you, great honer!

[Continential]

What is the PVDA's position on the conflict between Israel and Palestine?

[Donerail]

Palestina

What's with the spelling?

"Palestine" in Dutch.

[Crumpets]

I mean, his work is considered the culmination of Renaissance polyphony, so he does deserve some kudos.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

What is the PVDA's position on the conflict between Israel and Palestine?

Well the protest action is organized by PVDA, and members have been pretty vocal about Palestina on Facebook.

Colonization of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, blockade of Gaza, apartheid policy ... The State of Israel systematically violates international law and the fundamental rights of the Palestinians. What is happening in Palestine is not a conflict between two parties, it is an illegal policy of occupation and colonization.

Israel has been able to do this with impunity for decades thanks to the support of the United States and Western governments.

Stop this impunity. It is time for the European Union and the Belgian government to stop supporting Israeli colonization policies and to take economic and political sanctions. Starting with the cessation of all trade missions, the closing of the economic representation in Israel and an immediate embargo on all products from the colonies.

We don't want words anymore, we want action.

All our solidarity with the Palestinian people

That's their stance.

[Battista Minola 1616]

I mean, his work is considered the culmination of Renaissance polyphony, so he does deserve some kudos.

Paging our resident Renaissance music lover HenryWallaceVP!

That was (Giovanni Pierluigi da) Palestrina* - with an R.

Of course, Palestrina was not a modern surname, but simply the name of the small town in the Appennines east of Rome where he came from - the ancient Praeneste, namesake of the Via Praenestina. That's an area of Italy which is really rich in ancient history but unfortunately outside of Rome proper I have never visited. Probably a good suggestion for underrated tourist locations, actually.

None of this is remotely on topic but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I don't really care about this Israel/Palestine bullsh!t. I just want to take back the Holy Land at this point.

[Fight for Trump]

Palestinian girls are hot, but going to a protest might not be the best way to meet them.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Palestinian girls are hot, but going to a protest might not be the best way to meet them.

I expect you to do your part, too.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Just don't bring that crap over here. Why spread their hate around the world?

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

I don't really care about this Israel/Palestine bullsh!t. I just want to take back the Holy Land at this point.

Same

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The message!

Dear sympathizers ...

As you all know, a solidarity campaign will take place tonight at 7 p.m. until 8 p.m. on the Schouwburgplein in Stad Kortrijk (center) where we all gather in large numbers to express our dissatisfaction with the tacit Federal government and to show our warm solidarity to the oppressed Palestinian population.
I will also speak a word and vigorously repeat what is no longer acceptable!
Together with a minute of silence for all victims of terror and a dua (supplication) with a number of surat (verses) from the Quran to conclude.
We demand that Belgium take strict sanctions against state terror Israel, which has already killed more than 57 children cold-bloodedly in recent days and forced its aggressive occupation policy to stop and return to a two-state solution based on the borders as set in 1967.
I ask you therefore not to shout anti-Semitic statements because we are NEVER going to tolerate this and nor less the cry of hatred towards the Jewish people.
Let it be clear that we have NOTHING against the Jewish people, on the contrary, we are calling for peace together.
Our message must be spoken firmly in clear lines against the Zionist regime in Israel and the silence of the cowardly European politicians.
Silence = agree!
Until tonight InshAllah 🙏🏼
#FreePalestina