2021 Philadelphia District Attorney Race - Larry Krasner vs Carlos Vega

[Senator-elect Spark]

What do we think about this race? Does it have potential to be closer than expected? Predictions?

As a Philadelphia resident and former Krasner supporter, I was in favor of his criminal justice reform policies like advocating for the abolition of the death penalty, reducing cash bail, focus on rehabilitation, etc. but as of late, there has been very little deterrence and no fear of harsh penalties. However, as of late, the city is headed in the wrong direction IMO.

I believe this has led to the increased violent crime we are seeing in Philadelphia. Things have gotten so bad that it has been the worst year for violent crime in Philadelphia since 1990. Vega, a Democrat, has police organization endorsements. Vega also seems to be exploiting the fact that Krasner's policies have failed the inner city. If DAs in major cities do not enforce the laws and pursue harsher sentences, there is more of a reason to believe that crime will continue to skyrocket.

Vega will do well with Hispanics in North and Northeast Philadelphia in places like Fairhill and Hunting Park, in areas that are more conservative like South Philadelphia, and with police unions.
Krasner will perform best with Progressives and African Americans where turnout is higher.

I could see Vega winning over working class support in minority communities to narrowly win, especially with the current situation in the city.

Here is my map so far: https://www.ourcampaigns.com/RaceDetail.html?RaceID=828150



Asst. DA Carlos Vega (D) - 64,070 votes, 50.69%
Philadelphia District Attorney Lawrence Krasner (D), inc. - 62,325 votes, 49.37%

Strong margins for Vega in NE Philly and droves of cops switching to Dem cost Krasner the nomination. I could be wrong but this is my prediction as of now.

[Lief 🗽]

Krasner should win, but yes it will probably be closer than expected. The left's hardcore anti-police stance is very alienating to everyone but the most devoted of professional activists.

[Suburbia]

Krasner should win, but yes it will probably be closer than expected. The left's hardcore anti-police stance is very alienating to everyone but the most devoted of professional activists.

I'm glad you're seeing it now......it's not good when you have cops on TikTok and social media espousing the views of a major political party (GOP) when they are supposed to be apolitical and public servants.....................

Vega wins by 1-2 points....I see some African-Americans going for Vega as well.....a lot of cops will vote in this primary because the GOP will NEVER win there...

A lot of Republicans and conservadems will vote for Vega, even if he is endorsed by the police unions..

[GoTfan]

Krasner should win, but yes it will probably be closer than expected. The left's hardcore anti-police stance is very alienating to everyone but the most devoted of professional activists.

Those damn progressives, demanding that police be held accountable for killing unarmed black people . . .

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Krasner should win, but yes it will probably be closer than expected. The left's hardcore anti-police stance is very alienating to everyone but the most devoted of professional activists.

Those damn progressives, demanding that police be held accountable for killing unarmed black people . . .

That's not what he's referring to.

[wbrocks67]

I think it's pretty presumptuous to blame Philly's crime issue literally solely on Larry Krasner though? Not sure what the thinking there is.

Also, Vega having the "backing of Police union organizations" is something that... I don't imagine will play well considering organizations like the FOP are corrupt and terrible, and it's widely known in Philly.

I'm absolutely critical of the police, but not so far left as to think that they should be defunded, etc. as some do - but I also don't think any of Vega's prop-police stances help *at all* in this city.

I'm sure it will be closer as some as others have said, but I still imagine Krasner pulls it out.

[Joe Republic]

Whatever the merits of these two Democratic candidates, at least they're not the Republican candidate who has a section on his website explaining why an employee he was dating was found dead in his bathtub.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Even with OP's use of push-polling, I think Krasner will pull it off.

[Suburbia]

Krasner should win, but yes it will probably be closer than expected. The left's hardcore anti-police stance is very alienating to everyone but the most devoted of professional activists.

Those damn progressives, demanding that police be held accountable for killing unarmed black people . . .

Yes, police should be held accountable for killing unarmed black people, but you don't go around threatening officers and chanting "what do we want dead cops"...what does that do to solve police brutality? What does that do?

[sting in the rafters]

A change of DA is not going to solve the underlying gun violence epidemic. Even though crime as a whole is down, gun offenses are still through the roof. While I agree Krasner's lax stance at first was an issue he's at least made an effort to crack down on illegal firearms. Philly had 500 bodies last year and 5x as many covid deaths. Is it him or did Covid/the summer crime wave just accelerate underlying problems with the city?


The streets north of Girard and west of 38th are littered with trash, and in Fishtown needles. We don't have potholes, we have craters going down 34th street from Girard off the Schuylkill. For god's sake, the El had to be closed down at Kenzo and Somerset because of all the urine and needles clogging up the elevators. Our schools are a disaster. I'll be voting in the primary at my parents' out in the burbs because that's where I'm registered, and am glad because neither candidate can control the s---y situation they're in.


Imo, this is a place where there needs to be coordination with the state, and feds to address gun trafficking. PPD clearly can't handle it.

[wbrocks67]

A change of DA is not going to solve the underlying gun violence epidemic. Even though crime as a whole is down, gun offenses are still through the roof. While I agree Krasner's lax stance at first was an issue he's at least made an effort to crack down on illegal firearms. Philly had 500 bodies last year and 5x as many covid deaths. Is it him or did Covid/the summer crime wave just accelerate underlying problems with the city?


The streets north of Girard and west of 38th are littered with trash, and in Fishtown needles. We don't have potholes, we have craters going down 34th street from Girard off the Schuylkill. For god's sake, the El had to be closed down at Kenzo and Somerset because of all the urine and needles clogging up the elevators. Our schools are a disaster. I'll be voting in the primary at my parents' because that's where I'm registered, and am glad because neither candidate can control the s---y situation they're in.


Imo, this is a place where there needs to be coordination with the state, and feds to address gun trafficking. PPD clearly can't handle it.

And I don't really have anything *against* Kenney per say, but I'd agree that it's time for him to go. We need fresh blood

[coloradocowboi]

I think it's pretty presumptuous to blame Philly's crime issue literally solely on Larry Krasner though? Not sure what the thinking there is.

Also, Vega having the "backing of Police union organizations" is something that... I don't imagine will play well considering organizations like the FOP are corrupt and terrible, and it's widely known in Philly.

I'm absolutely critical of the police, but not so far left as to think that they should be defunded, etc. as some do - but I also don't think any of Vega's prop-police stances help *at all* in this city.

I'm sure it will be closer as some as others have said, but I still imagine Krasner pulls it out.

I regret that "defund the police" has become this ideological spat when what it basically means is that police budgets are overblown, filled with administrative corruption, purposed to buy military-grade equipment they don't need, and really just means that fighting crime would be more effective if large sums were transfered to social programs.

Which brings me to my beef with the OP (and why I agree with you)--we are living through the prelude to an economic catastrophe and given that every study that has ever examined crime and poverty has come to the same gd conclusion every time when are we going to acknowledge that the DA will do nothing to change crime in a city. It's not like criminals are out thinking, "Well now that Krasner is DA I'm going to do more crime."

Not a single shred of evidence suggests that except rightwing (baseless) talking pts, in Philly or in SF or anywhere. It's economics and poverty and if you want to solve crime solve those problems first.

[philly09]

Ed Rendell has endorsed Carlos Vega. Krasner won in 7 man primary with 38% of the vote(59,000 votes), so there's a good chance he'll be knocked off with NE Philly turnout alone.

[Suburbia]

Ed Rendell has endorsed Carlos Vega. Krasner won in 7 man primary with 38% of the vote(59,000 votes), so there's a good chance he'll be knocked off with NE Philly turnout alone.

Rendell is seen as a tough on crime 1990s moderate Democrat....he is in a sense...that's why he was effective as Philadelphia mayor....used that formula to win the 2002 Pennsylvania governorship.....

Isn't the Rendell formula bygone in the modern Democratic Party?

[wbrocks67]

Ed Rendell has endorsed Carlos Vega. Krasner won in 7 man primary with 38% of the vote(59,000 votes), so there's a good chance he'll be knocked off with NE Philly turnout alone.

How is that relevant when its now a 2 man race with him being an incumbent?

[LabourJersey]

It seems tremendously unfair to blame Krasner for the increase in crime--this is a nationwide problem caused by the pandemic.

If someone like Vega was running the DA in 2020 you would have saw a very similar situation here--this isn't merely a municipal issue.

And even people who oppose "Defund the Police" (which Krasner doesn't even believe in) are also aware that police organizations like the FOP are corrupt so their endorsement don't carry a tremendous amount of weight.

[VPH]

Murder rates have been increasing since Larry Krasner took office. Consistently, Krasner has been weak even when it comes to serious crime, procuring way-too-low sentences for murders and other violent offenders. I don't like Bill McSwain but I'm glad he stepped in at times!! Other crimes aren't even getting reported because Krasner has signaled that he won't go after the perps. For instance, shoplifters are getting treated with kiddy gloves even as they steal from small businesses that are already struggling during COVID-19.

Morale at the DA's office, even among people aligned with Krasner's agenda, is low. He came in, fired a bunch of ADAs (decimating the office's infrastructure), and has failed to properly rebuild it. In addition, it's not just about holding the police accountable. Carlos Vega has done that before, actually prosecuting bad cops. Larry Krasner goes out of his way to antagonize law enforcement and in so doing, ignores victims and their families. We need more police accountability, sure. But that's gotta have buy-in and stem from a productive relationship. Krasner will not get us there.

Oh, and Krasner attacking Vega for the FOP endorsement (which is literally just an anti-Krasner marriage of convenience b/c Vega is a reformer) is silly because Krasner tried to get their endorsement in 2017.

Fwiw, I still think Krasner will win around 60-40. Vega's not a perfect candidate, although I like him and will be voting for him. I don't know if the Northeast + Riverwards + South + Latino areas are enough turnout to get Vega over the line. That said, Vega's got some impressive endorsements and the wards who have not yet made a choice could well put his name on there come election day. The local Democratic Pary refusing to endorse either candidate is a big deal because they almost always pick the incumbent.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Ed Rendell has endorsed Carlos Vega. Krasner won in 7 man primary with 38% of the vote(59,000 votes), so there's a good chance he'll be knocked off with NE Philly turnout alone.

Rendell is seen as a tough on crime 1990s moderate Democrat....he is in a sense...that's why he was effective as Philadelphia mayor....used that formula to win the 2002 Pennsylvania governorship.....

Isn't the Rendell formula bygone in the modern Democratic Party?

If you're using crime as an indicator of how effective mayors are, keep in mind that crime fell throughout the 90s in every major American city. It now seems to be on a slight uptick - in every major American city. (Yes, I know who I'm replying to.)

[wbrocks67]

Murder rates have been increasing since Larry Krasner took office. Consistently, Krasner has been weak even when it comes to serious crime, procuring way-too-low sentences for murders and other violent offenders. I don't like Bill McSwain but I'm glad he stepped in at times!! Other crimes aren't even getting reported because Krasner has signaled that he won't go after the perps. For instance, shoplifters are getting treated with kiddy gloves even as they steal from small businesses that are already struggling during COVID-19.

Morale at the DA's office, even among people aligned with Krasner's agenda, is low. He came in, fired a bunch of ADAs (decimating the office's infrastructure), and has failed to properly rebuild it. In addition, it's not just about holding the police accountable. Carlos Vega has done that before, actually prosecuting bad cops. Larry Krasner goes out of his way to antagonize law enforcement and in so doing, ignores victims and their families. We need more police accountability, sure. But that's gotta have buy-in and stem from a productive relationship. Krasner will not get us there.

Oh, and Krasner attacking Vega for the FOP endorsement (which is literally just an anti-Krasner marriage of convenience b/c Vega is a reformer) is silly because Krasner tried to get their endorsement in 2017.

Fwiw, I still think Krasner will win around 60-40. Vega's not a perfect candidate, although I like him and will be voting for him. I don't know if the Northeast + Riverwards + South + Latino areas are enough turnout to get Vega over the line. That said, Vega's got some impressive endorsements and the wards who have not yet made a choice could well put his name on there come election day. The local Democratic Pary refusing to endorse either candidate is a big deal because they almost always pick the incumbent.

Why are people assuming Latinos/Latino areas are going to vote Vega?

Also, please show me where Vega has actually held police accountable? There is a reason the police unions are endorsing him - because they think he'll be a friend.

And also please cite Krasner trying to get the FOP endorsement in 2017. The FOP *never* endorses Democrats. Ever. They're pretty openly a (very corrupt) Republican-supporting organization. So it doesn't sound like they actually endorsed Vega, but are shadily helping Vega anyway they can since they hate Krasner so much.

[Suburbia]

Murder rates have been increasing since Larry Krasner took office. Consistently, Krasner has been weak even when it comes to serious crime, procuring way-too-low sentences for murders and other violent offenders. I don't like Bill McSwain but I'm glad he stepped in at times!! Other crimes aren't even getting reported because Krasner has signaled that he won't go after the perps. For instance, shoplifters are getting treated with kiddy gloves even as they steal from small businesses that are already struggling during COVID-19.

Morale at the DA's office, even among people aligned with Krasner's agenda, is low. He came in, fired a bunch of ADAs (decimating the office's infrastructure), and has failed to properly rebuild it. In addition, it's not just about holding the police accountable. Carlos Vega has done that before, actually prosecuting bad cops. Larry Krasner goes out of his way to antagonize law enforcement and in so doing, ignores victims and their families. We need more police accountability, sure. But that's gotta have buy-in and stem from a productive relationship. Krasner will not get us there.

Oh, and Krasner attacking Vega for the FOP endorsement (which is literally just an anti-Krasner marriage of convenience b/c Vega is a reformer) is silly because Krasner tried to get their endorsement in 2017.

Fwiw, I still think Krasner will win around 60-40. Vega's not a perfect candidate, although I like him and will be voting for him. I don't know if the Northeast + Riverwards + South + Latino areas are enough turnout to get Vega over the line. That said, Vega's got some impressive endorsements and the wards who have not yet made a choice could well put his name on there come election day. The local Democratic Pary refusing to endorse either candidate is a big deal because they almost always pick the incumbent.

Why are people assuming Latinos/Latino areas are going to vote Vega?

Also, please show me where Vega has actually held police accountable? There is a reason the police unions are endorsing him - because they think he'll be a friend.

And also please cite Krasner trying to get the FOP endorsement in 2017. The FOP *never* endorses Democrats. Ever. They're pretty openly a (very corrupt) Republican-supporting organization. So it doesn't sound like they actually endorsed Vega, but are shadily helping Vega anyway they can since they hate Krasner so much.

Yes, the FOP hates far left Democrats and probably far right Libertarians. They endorse moderate Democrats and conservative Republicans--that's the national FOP and local FOPs. Some FOPs have no other choice to endorse Democrats because in some cities there are no Republicans. Philadelphia doesn't have a strong Republican presence like NYC, Northeast Philly is the FOP's base.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Murder rates have been increasing since Larry Krasner took office. Consistently, Krasner has been weak even when it comes to serious crime, procuring way-too-low sentences for murders and other violent offenders. I don't like Bill McSwain but I'm glad he stepped in at times!! Other crimes aren't even getting reported because Krasner has signaled that he won't go after the perps. For instance, shoplifters are getting treated with kiddy gloves even as they steal from small businesses that are already struggling during COVID-19.

Morale at the DA's office, even among people aligned with Krasner's agenda, is low. He came in, fired a bunch of ADAs (decimating the office's infrastructure), and has failed to properly rebuild it. In addition, it's not just about holding the police accountable. Carlos Vega has done that before, actually prosecuting bad cops. Larry Krasner goes out of his way to antagonize law enforcement and in so doing, ignores victims and their families. We need more police accountability, sure. But that's gotta have buy-in and stem from a productive relationship. Krasner will not get us there.

Oh, and Krasner attacking Vega for the FOP endorsement (which is literally just an anti-Krasner marriage of convenience b/c Vega is a reformer) is silly because Krasner tried to get their endorsement in 2017.

Fwiw, I still think Krasner will win around 60-40. Vega's not a perfect candidate, although I like him and will be voting for him. I don't know if the Northeast + Riverwards + South + Latino areas are enough turnout to get Vega over the line. That said, Vega's got some impressive endorsements and the wards who have not yet made a choice could well put his name on there come election day. The local Democratic Pary refusing to endorse either candidate is a big deal because they almost always pick the incumbent.

Why are people assuming Latinos/Latino areas are going to vote Vega?

Also, please show me where Vega has actually held police accountable? There is a reason the police unions are endorsing him - because they think he'll be a friend.

And also please cite Krasner trying to get the FOP endorsement in 2017. The FOP *never* endorses Democrats. Ever. They're pretty openly a (very corrupt) Republican-supporting organization. So it doesn't sound like they actually endorsed Vega, but are shadily helping Vega anyway they can since they hate Krasner so much.

Yes, the FOP hates far left Democrats and probably far right Libertarians. They endorse moderate Democrats and conservative Republicans--that's the national FOP and local FOPs. Some FOPs have no other choice to endorse Democrats because in some cities there are no Republicans. Philadelphia doesn't have a strong Republican presence like NYC, Northeast Philly is the FOP's base.

No they don’t, what are you talking about?

[VPH]

Why are people assuming Latinos/Latino areas are going to vote Vega?

Also, please show me where Vega has actually held police accountable? There is a reason the police unions are endorsing him - because they think he'll be a friend.

And also please cite Krasner trying to get the FOP endorsement in 2017. The FOP *never* endorses Democrats. Ever. They're pretty openly a (very corrupt) Republican-supporting organization. So it doesn't sound like they actually endorsed Vega, but are shadily helping Vega anyway they can since they hate Krasner so much.

Latino support: Look at the Ward endorsements (https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/endorsements-in-philly-da-race-progressives-democrats-larry-krasner-carlos-vega/2810630/). If you map them out, most of the Latino areas have ward leaders who back Vega. That means sample ballots, crucial in a lower information race, will have Vega listed as the recommended pick. This same dynamic works against Vega in African-American neighborhoods whose ward leaders gravitated more towards Krasner. Also, while Councilwoman Quinones-Sanchez backs Krasner, Sen. Tartaglione and Rep. Cruz endorsed Vega.

Vega prosecuting police: He mentioned it multiple times during the debate. https://youtu.be/2xf0TwsVjng?t=1756
And as Vega noted, there hasn't been a single conviction of a bad cop with Krasner as DA. I'm trying to find the specific cases Vega won here but there was one involving an officer and his wife engaged in misconduct. Can't remember the name.

Krasner seeking FOP endorsement in 2017: https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/06/28/beth-grossman-philly-fop-endorsement/. He says it was just to clear up narratives about himself, but Krasner's actions seem murkier than he claims considering he brought a bunch of allied attorneys with him to the meeting (which Vega mentioned toward the end of the debate)

If you think the FOP likes Vega, you're not paying attention. It's literally just to get Krasner out, because Krasnser antagonizes law enforcement at every occasion. Why would he take down the wall memorializing fallen officers at the office? He's trying to parade around virtue-signaling his disdain for the police while people are actually dying.

[wbrocks67]

The bottom line is, Vega is clearly Republican-lite, and that's the last thing the city needs.

[Suburbia]

The bottom line is, Vega is clearly Republican-lite, and that's the last thing the city needs.

True, but crime needs to be contained. Krasner is seen as a soft on crime leftist and the cops and him don't get along. You can criticize police officers, but don't make it in a way where the police and prosecutor don't get along at all and tensions simmer, as it is now.

Krasner will be used by the Bucks County GOP/PAGOP to drive up white suburban turnout in 2022, so he will have to prepare for that.

When a police officer was killed in the line of duty last year, Krasner tried to visit the victim's family at the hospital, but cops lined up in a wall to prevent him from going in...

https://www.inquirer.com/news/cop-shot-philadelphia-police-officer-20200313.html

You can't be so antipolice that police don't want anything to do with you....

Both Vega and Krasner are not so good candidates, there should be someone who doesn't bow down to neither the police unions and the anarchists.

[Senator-elect Spark]

So far I've heard it's slowing going and there is low turnout across the city. That bodes well for Vega.