French presidential election, 2022

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Can someone explain the controversies of all (major) candidates, especially Roussel & Melenchon.

[Zinneke]

Can someone explain the controversies of all (major) candidates, especially Roussel & Melenchon.

Well since it's easier to list negatives than positives :

Roussel
- supports China as a model to follow. In the PCF manifesto China is cited as an example of successful socialism.
- is selling a "luxury communism" ideal that is simply unachievable outside of populist pipe dreams
- from a left-wing perspective the PCF is a notorious sell out organization
- sort of acts as a testimonial concern troll candidate for right-wing figures to point out and say "look, this is what the Left could be!"


Mélenchon
- supports Putin and China
-supports Latin American dictatorships
- supports some dodgy rhetoric on Algeria
- supports renegotiating the EU treaties but has no plan whatsoever to do so
- supports blatant anti-German rhetoric. Thinks the German working class is less free  than China's (lmao)
- is more obsessed with destroying the PS than actually winning

Hidalgo
- has no record of governance other than Paris, which has to be one of the most overrated positions in the land. Basically worked the party structures to get to the top.
- hardly did a stellar job as Paris mayor, even if mentalities changed regarding cars
- is part of a cucked political party that is anachronistic at this stage, basically a party that was for the Valls's of this world to have a career in politics

Pécresse
-supports de-marrying gays
- overcompensates for having a vagina and having to face 2 uninhibited far right candidates by constantly warping on about restoring order and the islamo-leftist take over
- wants to put 200,000 public servants on the bread line with no plan to re-employ them
- Is from the Sarkozy clan's sphere of influence; the same clan that had no issues whatsoever engaging in abuse of power and filling public administrative position with cronies


Jadot
- doesn't take into consideration the cost of immediate nuclear phase out
- doesn't honestly say that he favours degrwoth policies because he knows its electorally unviable so packages it through things like "GDP isn't an accurate measure of a country's wealth!!!"
- Has a segment of his party that is laughably caricatural on woke issues
- has tried to reach out to right-wing parts of France by attending things like police demos, only to be upstaged to an extent in this by Roussel

Panzergirl
- is from the Le Pen family
- is part of an organization that has historical links with neo-fascism
- is obsessed with Islam
- is basically owned by Putin and his financiers
- convicted for misuse of public funds

Macron
- Bénalla affair
- completely tone deaf to the ordinary concerns of several vulnerable sectors of society
- in the pocket of the nuclear lobby, excessively so, whatever your stance on nuclear.
- sells off state assets on the cheap in the name of effecient privatization

Taubria
- is ambiguous on everything, but especially vaccinations
- basically the reason Panzerdaddy got into the second round in 2002
- tries clearly to cleave society on certain ethnic lines


Zemmour
- controversy is his fond de commerce so there is no point whatsoever making a list - you just have to look up every statement he has made since he emerged, but just as an example; thinks the French state should not apologize for the deportation of Jews under Vichy.  
- is basically owned by a billionaire, Bolloré, who it wouldn't surprise me if he himself was owned by the Russian intelligence through some sex tape with Morroccan minors
- convicted for hate speech

All of them are HPs to the power of a 100.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Thank you for listing this.

[Cassius]

Inb4 the circular right-wing firing squad of Zemmour, Le Pen and Pecresse (with assistance from the minor right-wingers) puts Melenchon in the run-off - after all, he enjoyed a late campaign surge in 2017 and, iirc, 2012.

[SInNYC]

Does "Panzergirl" refer to Marine Le Pen? I'm just curious what the origin of this nickname is since I haven't heard it before.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Does "Panzergirl" refer to Marine Le Pen? I'm just curious what the origin of this nickname is since I haven't heard it before.

Yes it is. As for the origin, I think it's a reference to her dad, but I forgot exactly what it was.

[parochial boy]

Inb4 the circular right-wing firing squad of Zemmour, Le Pen and Pecresse (with assistance from the minor right-wingers) puts Melenchon in the run-off - after all, he enjoyed a late campaign surge in 2017 and, iirc, 2012.

Nah, he's not surging at the moment, it's one new pollster that is showing a pretty different picture to what all the others are. The big names like Ifop and OpinonWay still have him hovering around 10%with no real sign of any movement. The only candidate whose had any real recent positive movement has been Monsieur "un bon vin, une bonne viande" Roussel for reasons of him being popular with the sort of pompous pseudo-intellectual that consists the mainstay France's media class.

It was about this time that Mélenchon started to surge 5 years ago - but the difference was that there was a big base of support for a basically quite similar candidate like Hamon to tap in to. This time not so much as most of the other lefty voters won't naturally pick him second and little incentive for any of the other left candidates to drop out because the internal left battles are more important than the overall picture.

That said, it probably is time for Hidalgo to throw in the towel. It's probably starting to do more harm than good at this point. As things stand Jadot, Taubira and her are probably going to wind up under the 5% hurdle.

[buritobr]

Who is more evil: Eric Zemmour or Marine Le Pen?

[Leading Political Consultant Ma Anand Sheela]

It was about this time that Mélenchon started to surge 5 years ago - but the difference was that there was a big base of support for a basically quite similar candidate like Hamon to tap in to. This time not so much as most of the other lefty voters won't naturally pick him second and little incentive for any of the other left candidates to drop out because the internal left battles are more important than the overall picture.

IIRC it was the debates that triggered it then?

[Conservatopia]

Could a Hidalgo disaster spell annhilation for PS in the National Assembly elections or would they likely hold up a bit better there?

I imagine the legislature elections are one reason some of the left candidates are staying in past their due dates: to keep their partys' hopes alive in the National Assembly.

[CumbrianLefty]

Tbh even given the parlous state of the PS, its still a surprise that Hidalgo has bombed so badly.

I mean, she's pretty alright.

[Coldstream]

Could a Hidalgo disaster spell annhilation for PS in the National Assembly elections or would they likely hold up a bit better there?

I imagine the legislature elections are one reason some of the left candidates are staying in past their due dates: to keep their partys' hopes alive in the National Assembly.

I feel like it probably won’t make much difference, they don’t have much left to lose - and the PCF won seats in 2017 despite not having a Presidential candidate at all.

[Zinneke]

Who is more evil: Eric Zemmour or Marine Le Pen?

Zemmour. I think Marine Le Pen is only in politics because it's a family business and her sister was always the politically engaged one - Marine was rejected from a lot of private sector circles simply because of her family name. There's every chance that had she been born without Le Pen in the family name she would have gone on to be a run of the mill somewhat cynical centre-right lawyer.

Zemmour is a polemicist by nature, the guy at the back of the class who says provocative statements and is too smart for his own good; who goes to elite schools but because he is too smart for his own good has to settle into polemicism as a trade. Plus his views are just horrible on things like the French role in Algeria and the Holocaust.

Not to normalize Panzergirl of course; but at this point it is evident that she is the lesser of two evils. Though not enough to ever get me to go out and vote in a Le Pen/Zemmour second round.

[Zinneke]

Tbh even given the parlous state of the PS, its still a surprise that Hidalgo has bombed so badly.

I mean, she's pretty alright.

Don't feel too sorry for her. Her previous job before becoming a career politician was as a work inspector. These people are either by nature psychopaths or become one.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Unless she has a really good plan to turn things around very quickly, then I really don't see the point in Hidalgo staying in the race. Doing so otherwise will - unless we're seeing a serious case of polling failure - only further damage her image and that of the remnants of her party. She was always a curious choice of candidate given the general field: given that Macron is the incumbent and that there was always going to be a Green candidate, what exactly is the purpose of her candidacy? Other sorts of PS politician could maybe justify themselves under these circumstances, but not her sort. There's no room.

[Sir John Johns]

* Éric Woerth, a bigwig of LR (budget minister and labor minister under Sarkozy, national treasurer of the UMP in 2002-10 – a post for which he is indicted in the supposedly illegal financing of Sarko 2007 campaign –, the general-secretary of LR in 2015-16 and currently the president of the finance commission of the National Assembly), has announced he’s endorsing Macron. A blow for the Pécresse candidacy which, so far, isn’t taking off, still struggling to overtake Le Pen in the polls and isn’t not at all ensured to go to the runoff.

* Also Hidalgo has now fallen behind Jean Lassalle in the latest Elabe poll while Taubira has started her campaign post-selection by the popular primary with the totally left-wing proposal of reducing the inheritance tax and a performance considered as disastrous before the Fondation Abbé-Pierre dedicated to poor housing problems, appearing as not being familiar with that matter (then again, Taubira’s speech sounds always to me as some pompous fluff with random literary quotations and references to historical personalities but very short on details). Reportedly, her campaign team has started discussions with the one of Jadot. Anyway, she has been attacked as the candidate of wokism, responsible of the decline of the French left by no less than Manuel Valls who really really want to get a ministerial job be it under Macron or Pécresse (from the guy who has abruptly abandon his two previous jobs as deputy of Essonne and municipal councilor in Barcelona).

* Hilarious answer of Nathalie Arthaud after Gilbert Collard complained that Arthaud who is polling at 1% has more signatures than the combined Le Pen and Zemmour):

https://twitter.com/n_arthaud/status/1491147793595248640

This is the difference between activists fighting for their beliefs and flies changing of poop before an election. We are accustomed having to fight for everything. Unlike Collard, Zemmour and co. nothing is falling into our laps.

[RodPresident]

Unless she has a really good plan to turn things around very quickly, then I really don't see the point in Hidalgo staying in the race. Doing so otherwise will - unless we're seeing a serious case of polling failure - only further damage her image and that of the remnants of her party. She was always a curious choice of candidate given the general field: given that Macron is the incumbent and that there was always going to be a Green candidate, what exactly is the purpose of her candidacy? Other sorts of PS politician could maybe justify themselves under these circumstances, but not her sort. There's no room.

Hidalgo should have waited for 2027, with open seat, Mélenchon rejected after three defeats and with Olympics visibility.

[Coldstream]

Unless she has a really good plan to turn things around very quickly, then I really don't see the point in Hidalgo staying in the race. Doing so otherwise will - unless we're seeing a serious case of polling failure - only further damage her image and that of the remnants of her party. She was always a curious choice of candidate given the general field: given that Macron is the incumbent and that there was always going to be a Green candidate, what exactly is the purpose of her candidacy? Other sorts of PS politician could maybe justify themselves under these circumstances, but not her sort. There's no room.

Hidalgo should have waited for 2027, with open seat, Mélenchon rejected after three defeats and with Olympics visibility.

Reading this makes me angry at PS strategists. The PS could have nominated a no-name, then withdrawn to back the EELV (and claimed they were being responsible after 2017), concentrated on the assembly elections then have an untainted and elevated Hidalgo ready to go. It was so obviously a better idea than keeping going now.

[Cassius]

PS has strategists?

[Coldstream]

PS has strategists?

Have you ever known a centre left party that didn’t have hundreds of over-paid, ignorant, strategists?

[Continential]

Also, I'm sure that PS has an ego and would think it is humiliating seeing itself not run in a Presidential election.

[Cassius]

PS has strategists?

Have you ever known a centre left party that didn’t have hundreds of over-paid, ignorant, strategists?

Touché.

[Coldstream]

Also, I'm sure that PS has an ego and would think it is humiliating seeing itself not run in a Presidential election.

Maybe, but it’s much less humiliating than coming 8th with ~1% of the vote alongside people like Arthaud.

[parochial boy]

Unless she has a really good plan to turn things around very quickly, then I really don't see the point in Hidalgo staying in the race. Doing so otherwise will - unless we're seeing a serious case of polling failure - only further damage her image and that of the remnants of her party. She was always a curious choice of candidate given the general field: given that Macron is the incumbent and that there was always going to be a Green candidate, what exactly is the purpose of her candidacy? Other sorts of PS politician could maybe justify themselves under these circumstances, but not her sort. There's no room.

Hidalgo should have waited for 2027, with open seat, Mélenchon rejected after three defeats and with Olympics visibility.

Reading this makes me angry at PS strategists. The PS could have nominated a no-name, then withdrawn to back the EELV (and claimed they were being responsible after 2017), concentrated on the assembly elections then have an untainted and elevated Hidalgo ready to go. It was so obviously a better idea than keeping going now.

The plan was beat Jadot, and ideally Mélenchon this year, and set out the PS as the main party and Hidalgo as leading figure of the left with a view to the legislatives and eventually 2027.

Quite how badly things have turned out, well, it wasn't that predictable. Or at least, wasn't inevitable in the way it might seem. Even if she is a bit of a careerst cadre, the thought was that at least she did have a certain degree of popularity coming out the anti-car stuff in Paris and having a certain degree of an enthusiastic, plus getting comfortably re-elected, that would make that possible.

And the PS is pretty close to being devoid of anyone particularly identifiable or popular at the moment. Her nomination was something of a formality in that respect. In that sense, there was a logic to it - but the PS's brand still being toxic, her own weakness as a candidate, the overall situation have all conspired to put that plan in the dust bin.

[Zinneke]

Unless she has a really good plan to turn things around very quickly, then I really don't see the point in Hidalgo staying in the race. Doing so otherwise will - unless we're seeing a serious case of polling failure - only further damage her image and that of the remnants of her party. She was always a curious choice of candidate given the general field: given that Macron is the incumbent and that there was always going to be a Green candidate, what exactly is the purpose of her candidacy? Other sorts of PS politician could maybe justify themselves under these circumstances, but not her sort. There's no room.

I'm intrigued to know which PS candidate could justify themselves. The PS's unique selling point for years, that kept it alive, was merely its ability to sell itself as the only left-wing force that could actually govern. That myth has totally dissipated now.

Hidalgo is indeed a particularly poor choice, but it seemed primarily motivated by strong support within the youth sections of the party and a belief this would somehow translate to the rest of the next generation