Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[jojoju1998]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

1200 puts you in the top quarter and a 1350 puts you in the top tenth.

Well that would exclude all the white party school rich kids who just go to party school to study " business ".

[Person Man]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

1200 puts you in the top quarter and a 1350 puts you in the top tenth.

Well that would exclude all the white party school rich kids who just go to party school to study " business ".

I got like 1010 in 7th grade so I’m guessing anyone can apply themselves but that could simply make the curve harder.

[jojoju1998]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

1200 puts you in the top quarter and a 1350 puts you in the top tenth.

Well that would exclude all the white party school rich kids who just go to party school to study " business ".

I got like 1010 in 7th grade so I’m guessing anyone can apply themselves but that could simply make the curve harder.

Also, wouldnt the smart kids just go to MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford because those colleges have the most prestige in terms of STEM Education ?

[Person Man]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

1200 puts you in the top quarter and a 1350 puts you in the top tenth.

Well that would exclude all the white party school rich kids who just go to party school to study " business ".

I got like 1010 in 7th grade so I’m guessing anyone can apply themselves but that could simply make the curve harder.

Also, wouldnt the smart kids just go to MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford because those colleges have the most prestige in terms of STEM Education ?

It’s a feat to get into just one national institute with a 1400. With a 1500, its a crap shoot and maybe a perfect score would guarantee that one school would take their chances on you. Anything below 14? Forget it! The gulf between an A(typical Harvard or MIT guy), A-(typical student at a major Tier-1, but non Ivy school), B+(Typical scholarship student at a public school), and B(typical student who graduates from a public school that might not be competitive) students are pretty big.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://news.yahoo.com/white-house-dismisses-minting-1-211518692.html

Well minting a T dollar coin is out of question to raise Debt Ceiling it's Reconciliation Bill

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Biden said today it's all on Mcconnell, what Leadership, he gives his power away toa Minority Leader in Congress you haven't even invited to WH since infrastructure bill

[Person Man]

I guess everything is going through at once.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Biden said not to get rid of Fillibuster on Debt Ceiling anyways and change the rules but just allow a vote of 51 Senators

[H. Ross Peron]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

As we saw with school closures during the Covid pandemic, this is a great way to massively increase violent crime rates.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

All the Ds have to do to raise the Debt Ceiling is s drop the 3.5T dollar Package and pass the infrastructure bill that was already passed thru the Senate and wait til after the Midterms to pass it but they won't do that

They're putting the cart before the Horse you are stopping SSA checks in order to get your way on Medicare expansion that won't take effect til 2028

Biden is at 44% Approval rating a danger zone for losing the H, he's not at 60% Approval

[Person Man]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

As we saw with school closures during the Covid pandemic, this is a great way to massively increase violent crime rates.

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

[ChineseConservative]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

If we had Federal Jobs Guarentee we would be able to have White Collar jobs, most people that get White Collar jobs  have connections or have family members already employed with their company called Entrepreneurship.

Just because you don't get a White Collar Job, you can pass it onto your kids and they get better jobs than you, sometimes you further your Education for the better good.

We went thru a Pandemic and a Great Recession, both of them wiped out Banking Jobs, that was in the 90s a White collar job, now,most people do online banking


Nursing is a huge field that people are going into instead of being Doctors those are White Collar jobs and you don't have to go thru Med school and take out 200K Student Loans

[jojoju1998]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

As we saw with school closures during the Covid pandemic, this is a great way to massively increase violent crime rates.

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

I almost dropped out of high school; and barely got by with a 2.5 gpa.
I went to Community College and transferred with a 3.7 gpa.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1445057484159324163

Great to see my fellow Bro shock troops taking over the party. We fight for Biden now!

[Pres Mike]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part

Why do Americans need to invest? That is gambling. Most Americans retirments are in 401k, which could collpase tomorrow. Than what?

We should make sure employors offer good pension plans and raise benefits to social security. We also need to help people buy their first home eariler so its paid off when they retire.

Rent, healthcare, childcare, groceries are all super expensive. People do not have enough extra income to invest in the stock market

[jojoju1998]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part

Why do Americans need to invest? That is gambling. Most Americans retirments are in 401k, which could collpase tomorrow. Than what?

We should make sure employors offer good pension plans and raise benefits to social security. We also need to help people buy their first home eariler so its paid off when they retire.

Rent, healthcare, childcare, groceries are all super expensive. People do not have enough extra income to invest in the stock market

It's quite simple really.

Feudalism. 2.0.

The rich white party school kids can literally pass their classes with a C and still get a job because their parents have connections with other white collar people. Or you can join your parent's company.

Meanwhile the STEM world gets more and more compeitive; higher and higher grades, more and more stress.

Skilled Trades sound nice; but we lack stable Unions ( AND NO STARTING YOUR OWN BUSINESS IS WORTHLESS. Just ask my working class machinist dad. ).

And so people are who are left behind aka the Working Class without any skills are therefore supposed to make money and invest ?? And I thought these people with low IQ aren't smart enough to learn how to invest so now they're just out there by themselves ? Really ?

[Hope For A New Era]

Can we get an approximate expected timeline?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Can we get an approximate expected timeline?

The 4T dollar Spending bill is gonna have to wait, Sinema and Manchin are against spending 4T dollars and the Rs are Filibustering the Debt Ceiling based on the Spending bill not the 1.2T dollar infrastructure bill, Oct 31st is most likely the date that infrastructure not Spending bill is passed there you have if

[ChineseConservative]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part

Why do Americans need to invest? That is gambling. Most Americans retirments are in 401k, which could collpase tomorrow. Than what?

We should make sure employors offer good pension plans and raise benefits to social security. We also need to help people buy their first home eariler so its paid off when they retire.

Rent, healthcare, childcare, groceries are all super expensive. People do not have enough extra income to invest in the stock market

Americans should and need to invest their money because of the basic principle of inflation,  otherwise the relative value of your savings decreases over time (Thanks Biden for making this more obvious). You don't have to closely follow the market to invest and as long as you pool your savings in diversified mutual funds, and given their average return rate of 12% for the last 30 years you will be looking pretty well.

Obviously if you are more cautious of the market overall you can put a larger proportion of your money in bonds and vice versa for risk averse individuals. But, hey if people don't want to take the 12% average annual net gains from the markets and prefer the average 2.5 percent net losses in inflation be my guest. But do something with your money otherwise it will be decreasing in value!

Pension plans have been advertised as the better alternative to the market but this is simply not true! Just this year we had to spend EIGHTY SIX BILLION to bail out pension plans. They have been abused through mismanagement, corruption, and simply are volatile to long term retractions in certain industries. They had not only failed to achieve higher return rates but failed at the one thing they were supposed to the strongest in - income security.

And yes increasing social security wouldn't be a bad alternative but a lot of us good investors will not be pleased....

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I think we veering wildly off-topic

[jojoju1998]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part

Why do Americans need to invest? That is gambling. Most Americans retirments are in 401k, which could collpase tomorrow. Than what?

We should make sure employors offer good pension plans and raise benefits to social security. We also need to help people buy their first home eariler so its paid off when they retire.

Rent, healthcare, childcare, groceries are all super expensive. People do not have enough extra income to invest in the stock market

Americans should and need to invest their money because of the basic principle of inflation,  otherwise the relative value of your savings decreases over time (Thanks Biden for making this more obvious). You don't have to closely follow the market to invest and as long as you pool your savings in diversified mutual funds, and given their average return rate of 12% for the last 30 years you will be looking pretty well.

Obviously if you are more cautious of the market overall you can put a larger proportion of your money in bonds and vice versa for risk averse individuals. But, hey if people don't want to take the 12% average annual net gains from the markets and prefer the average 2.5 percent net losses in inflation be my guest. But do something with your money otherwise it will be decreasing in value!

Pension plans have been advertised as the better alternative to the market but this is simply not true! Just this year we had to spend EIGHTY SIX BILLION to bail out pension plans. They have been abused through mismanagement, corruption, and simply are volatile to long term retractions in certain industries. They had not only failed to achieve higher return rates but failed at the one thing they were supposed to the strongest in - income security.

And yes increasing social security wouldn't be a bad alternative but a lot of us good investors will not be pleased....

And with the cost of healthcare, rent, childcare, and all the other stuff, how do you think working class people can afford to put away extra money for savings ? To achieve at least a million dollars in a 401K or 403b plan, most experts say you need the maximum amount you can put in which is 20,000 a year.  So for a person with a low iq in a menial wage labor job, where are you going to put that money ?

Healthcare costs. Rent. Childcare.

[jojoju1998]

I think we veering wildly off-topic

Sorry.

[ChineseConservative]

Truly low students that are not intended to go on to the trades, professions, or the tallest ivory towers can be sent into community based instruction to work in the simplest jobs whether they are typical D and F students that flunked out of 8th grade or have severe intellectual disabilities.

Agreed with UniverseMan. Whether we like it or not the vast majority of those in the bottom 25 percent of the IQ distribution land up in simple repetitive labor jobs. From a cost benefit perspective why should taxpayers be footing the bill for such students to "further" their education when they get little to nothing out of it, and can instead be earning and investing money at an earlier age?

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part

Why do Americans need to invest? That is gambling. Most Americans retirments are in 401k, which could collpase tomorrow. Than what?

We should make sure employors offer good pension plans and raise benefits to social security. We also need to help people buy their first home eariler so its paid off when they retire.

Rent, healthcare, childcare, groceries are all super expensive. People do not have enough extra income to invest in the stock market

Americans should and need to invest their money because of the basic principle of inflation,  otherwise the relative value of your savings decreases over time (Thanks Biden for making this more obvious). You don't have to closely follow the market to invest and as long as you pool your savings in diversified mutual funds, and given their average return rate of 12% for the last 30 years you will be looking pretty well.

Obviously if you are more cautious of the market overall you can put a larger proportion of your money in bonds and vice versa for risk averse individuals. But, hey if people don't want to take the 12% average annual net gains from the markets and prefer the average 2.5 percent net losses in inflation be my guest. But do something with your money otherwise it will be decreasing in value!

Pension plans have been advertised as the better alternative to the market but this is simply not true! Just this year we had to spend EIGHTY SIX BILLION to bail out pension plans. They have been abused through mismanagement, corruption, and simply are volatile to long term retractions in certain industries. They had not only failed to achieve higher return rates but failed at the one thing they were supposed to the strongest in - income security.

And yes increasing social security wouldn't be a bad alternative but a lot of us good investors will not be pleased....

And with the cost of healthcare, rent, childcare, and all the other stuff, how do you think working class people can afford to put away extra money for savings ? To achieve at least a million dollars in a 401K or 403b plan, most experts say you need the maximum amount you can put in which is 20,000 a year.  So for a person with a low iq in a menial wage labor job, where are you going to put that money ?

Healthcare costs. Rent. Childcare.

sorry for getting off topic. My point was more to illustrate that with proper saving and investing , working class individuals can create a safety net for themselves that currently is not fully supplied by he federal government. It can definitely be challenging to save money as a working class man, but if one is even able to budget out even just 5 percent of their income in mutual funds it can definitely provide a cushion in difficult times.

[wbrocks67]

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