Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[walleye26]

Honestly, the progressives stupidity will cost the Dems any shot at keeping the house next year. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is enormously popular and badly needed. If they can’t get this passed, Democrats deserve to get wiped out in the midterms.

[JMT]

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1443755834702548995?s=20

Ugh, I was hoping an agreement would come. Still hoping Pelosi has something up her sleeve.

I honestly think both Manchin/Sinema and the Congressional Progressive Caucus are being unreasonable here. Manchin/Sinema need to be more vocal and honest about what they want (and don't want) from reconciliation. It's impossible to negotiate effectively if you don't clearly state what you want. Manchin always complains that Washington sucks because nothing gets done. Well, this is an opportunity to get something BIG done, and now he seems to be in no rush at all to negotiate.

I also think it's absurd that the CPC will hold an enormously important and popular bill hostage because they didn't get assurances about everything they wanted in a separate bill. Members should vote for bills based on the merits of the bill, and stop playing these stupid political games. Also, isn't getting some of what you want better than getting nothing? Progressives never seem to take this into account, and they oftentimes lose because of it.

I wish members all took the approach of what I believe is the majority of the caucus, and what the majority of Democratic voters would think is the best approach: vote for the bipartisan bill NOW (especially since the House vote is the only thing standing in the way of passage), while also promising a robust reconciliation bill once it's ready to pass.

Manchin and Sinema would abandon the reconciliation deal, itself enormously popular, the second the infrastructure deal is passed. Their promises mean nothing as they've clearly shown

You may be right, it's possible they jump ship, but I also don't think that's a certainty. Manchin and Sinema have been difficult to negotiate with in the past, but oftentimes end up voting the party line in the end when it is important (e.g. American Rescue Plan, and almost all Joe Biden's nominees for cabinet posts/administration roles).

Even if Manchin and Sinema were to jump ship on reconciliation, I still don't believe in the principle of holding hostage a vote on a good bill as a way to negotiate a separate bill. In my view, members of Congress should vote on the merits of each bill that comes up for a vote.

[StateBoiler]

Great point from Bernie.

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1443740455737430017

How is that any different from how Congress normally does business?

Being flippant here, but really, that's how they always do business. Neither party in power is ever transparent.

[CookieDamage]

Honestly, the progressives stupidity will cost the Dems any shot at keeping the house next year. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is enormously popular and badly needed. If they can’t get this passed, Democrats deserve to get wiped out in the midterms.

Honestly, the progressives moderates stupidity will cost the Dems any shot at keeping the house next year. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill reconciliation package is enormously popular and badly needed. If they can’t get this passed, Democrats deserve to get wiped out in the midterms.

[Pyro]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1443766931312594947

lol Gottheimer

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

[CookieDamage]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1443766931312594947

lol Gottheimer

Embarrassing for the people in this very thread who took his word as gospel and proclaimed the reconciliation bill dead

[KaiserDave]

Well I never declared the reconciliation bill dead, but I was very foolish to believe Gottheimer.

[7,052,770]

I also think it's absurd that the CPC will hold an enormously important and popular bill hostage because they didn't get assurances about everything they wanted in a separate bill. Members should vote for bills based on the merits of the bill, and stop playing these stupid political games. Also, isn't getting some of what you want better than getting nothing? Progressives never seem to take this into account, and they oftentimes lose because of it.

Honestly, the progressives stupidity will cost the Dems any shot at keeping the house next year. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is enormously popular and badly needed. If they can’t get this passed, Democrats deserve to get wiped out in the midterms.

These are both extremely unfair takes. The deal was pass both of these bills together. Not just 1, but both. Manchin, Sinema, the progressives, everyone was on the same page.

It's not like progressives are just holding up an unrelated bill to invent leverage out of nowhere. They're just expecting Sinema to keep her promise like they did.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Jesus

[JMT]

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1443755834702548995?s=20
Ugh, I was hoping an agreement would come. Still hoping Pelosi has something up her sleeve.

I honestly think both Manchin/Sinema and the Congressional Progressive Caucus are being unreasonable here. Manchin/Sinema need to be more vocal and honest about what they want (and don't want) from reconciliation. It's impossible to negotiate effectively if you don't clearly state what you want. Manchin always complains that Washington sucks because nothing gets done. Well, this is an opportunity to get something BIG done, and now he seems to be in no rush at all to negotiate.

I also think it's absurd that the CPC will hold an enormously important and popular bill hostage because they didn't get assurances about everything they wanted in a separate bill. Members should vote for bills based on the merits of the bill, and stop playing these stupid political games. Also, isn't getting some of what you want better than getting nothing? Progressives never seem to take this into account, and they oftentimes lose because of it.

I wish members all took the approach of what I believe is the majority of the caucus, and what the majority of Democratic voters would think is the best approach: vote for the bipartisan bill NOW (especially since the House vote is the only thing standing in the way of passage), while also promising a robust reconciliation bill once it's ready to pass.

Why do you believe a reconciliation bill would happen if the BIF passed now?

Perhaps my post was misunderstood, or I didn't do a good enough job explaining my view. I don't necessarily think a reconciliation bill will be guaranteed to pass if the BIF passed now (but, I do still think both bills passing would be the most likely outcome, even if BIF passed today and reconciliation occurred later). Perhaps replace my phrase "while also promising a robust reconciliation bill once it's ready to pass" with "while also promoting a robust reconciliation bill, and voting in favor of it when it's ready to be voted on."

What I'm really trying to say here is: I wish the Democrats could unite on this and pass both bills, even if passage of both bills didn't occur at the same time. We shouldn't be voting against/for a bill to stop another bill, but rather we should vote on each bill based on the actual content of that bill.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Any idea what day the vote will be held?

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Any idea what day the vote will be held?

Current plan is tomorrow

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

what a damn mess

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1443755834702548995?s=20
Ugh, I was hoping an agreement would come. Still hoping Pelosi has something up her sleeve.

I honestly think both Manchin/Sinema and the Congressional Progressive Caucus are being unreasonable here. Manchin/Sinema need to be more vocal and honest about what they want (and don't want) from reconciliation. It's impossible to negotiate effectively if you don't clearly state what you want. Manchin always complains that Washington sucks because nothing gets done. Well, this is an opportunity to get something BIG done, and now he seems to be in no rush at all to negotiate.

I also think it's absurd that the CPC will hold an enormously important and popular bill hostage because they didn't get assurances about everything they wanted in a separate bill. Members should vote for bills based on the merits of the bill, and stop playing these stupid political games. Also, isn't getting some of what you want better than getting nothing? Progressives never seem to take this into account, and they oftentimes lose because of it.

I wish members all took the approach of what I believe is the majority of the caucus, and what the majority of Democratic voters would think is the best approach: vote for the bipartisan bill NOW (especially since the House vote is the only thing standing in the way of passage), while also promising a robust reconciliation bill once it's ready to pass.

Why do you believe a reconciliation bill would happen if the BIF passed now?

Perhaps my post was misunderstood, I don't necessarily think a reconciliation bill will be guaranteed to pass if the BIF passed now (but, I do still think both bills passing would be the most likely outcome, even if BIF passed today and reconciliation occurred later). Perhaps replace my phrase "while also promising a robust reconciliation bill once it's ready to pass" with "while also promoting a robust reconciliation bill, and voting in favor of it when it's ready to be voted on."

What I'm really trying to say here is: I wish the Democrats could unite on this and pass both bills, even if passage of both bills didn't occur at the same time. We shouldn't be voting against/for a bill to stop another bill, but rather we should vote on each bill based on the actual content of that bill.

Well here’s your problem, promises from Sinema, Manchin, and their house friends mean nothing.
They already had a deal, send their bill to the House, start reconciliation, and pass them together. As soon as the first bill went to Senate, the two Senators walk off and started demanding that the house pass their bill.

I just don’t see how anything less than a reconciliation package being passed the Senate can be taken seriously.

[KaiserDave]

what a damn mess

This is much more stable than things were a few days ago, where nobody knew what Sinema and Manchin wanted.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Well I never declared the reconciliation bill dead, but I was very foolish to believe Gottheimer.

Not your fault. Gottheimer was trying to will it into being and news has been confusing all day.


Feels good to be wrong doesn’t it?

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1443750386066731014

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1443750386066731014

I just love it when he says ‘where y’all from’ expecting Californians or some such so he could lecture them about down home values and then immediately has to pivot into an impression of my grandpa.

[KaiserDave]

Well I never declared the reconciliation bill dead, but I was very foolish to believe Gottheimer.

Not your fault. Gottheimer was trying to will it into being and news has been confusing all day.


Feels good to be wrong doesn’t it?

It does indeed, now it's time to negotiate, with leverage.

[KaiserDave]

https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1443750386066731014

I just love it when he says ‘where y’all from’ expecting Californians or some such so he could lecture them about down home values and then immediately has to pivot into an impression of my grandpa.

Nothing captures this situation better than Joe Manchin looking down from a yacht.

[GP270watch]

 It's great to see progressives finally standing up for the bigger picture of what the American people need. Joe Manchin is a guy that never saw a defense spending bill he didn't vote for. His pearl clutching about deficits and debt spending is nonsense.


Joe Manchin whines about $3.5 trillion — but he spent $9.1 trillion on defense

[henster]

At this point Dems should just get CTC extended at least through the 2024, paid family leave, shore up Obamacare, some green tax credits and call it a day. If they can get some watered down version of Medicare drug pricing that’d be great too. Everything left out else can just be campaign fodder for ‘22 & ‘24, ,‘I got this much done, elect me and I’ll get even more...’

[compucomp]

Well I never declared the reconciliation bill dead, but I was very foolish to believe Gottheimer.

Not your fault. Gottheimer was trying to will it into being and news has been confusing all day.


Feels good to be wrong doesn’t it?

It does indeed, now it's time to negotiate, with leverage.

Fine, the progressives didn't fold like a tent tonight, but declaring victory is greatly premature. Manchin destroyed your talking point that he was working to kill reconciliation by releasing his counter-proposal. Clearly there was progress being made on a deal, and crucially, the negotiations were being done between Manchin, Sinema, Pelosi, Schumer, and the White House. Bernie Sanders and the House Progressive Caucus were not in the room. 

Here's a reasonable scenario for the weekend; these folks announce a deal on reconciliation, $2T with Manchin's suggested rollbacks of the Trump tax law, but with spending cut approximately in half, climate provisions mostly gutted, and some random kickback to Arizona to get Sinema to sign on. The progressives will howl to the moon that it's not enough, it was a sellout to energy companies, they were cut out of decision making, blah blah blah. But Biden will endorse it publicly, and then the leadership will present it to the House and Senate, and say it's this or nothing, and that point the progressives will mostly fall in line and vote for the infrastructure bill.

I stand by my statement that the reconciliation bill as it is now cannot pass Congress. We'll see what the final deal is but I think it will be far closer to Manchin's proposal.

[Shadows]

Honestly, the progressives stupidity will cost the Dems any shot at keeping the house next year. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is enormously popular and badly needed. If they can’t get this passed, Democrats deserve to get wiped out in the midterms.

And it has bad provisions including carbon capture, is basically a debt bill where 100s of billions of $ are borrowed in addition to the unspend covid money which was also borrowing.

If Dems can't get a good reconciliation bill, they should just let it burn & lose both the house & the senate. They have lost on the Min Wage, Immigration & Voting rights & if they can't get Child-care, Paid Leaves, Drug Pricing etc passed - It is better to not pass anything & go down in flames !

Manchin & Sinema will lose in 2024 too anyways !