US Bombs Facilities in Syria Used by Iran-Backed Militia

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

[John Dule]

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

Nobody in this thread has defended (or even mentioned) the US alliance with Saudi Arabia.

[Alcibiades]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

US publicly accuses Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over brutal Khashoggi murder for first time

While we probably won't see the end of the Saudi dictatorship during his term He's certainly moving in the right direction so far.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

US publicly accuses Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over brutal Khashoggi murder for first time

While we probably won't see the end of the Saudi dictatorship during his term He's certainly moving in the right direction so far.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/opinion/sunday/saudi-arabia-biden-khashoggi.html

[brucejoel99]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

and worth remembering that one of the largest killings of socialists & communists since 1945 occurred in Iran in the 1980s.

Stop, STOP! Your facts, they're too inconvenient!!

[Sirius_]

I'm actually shocked that nobody has pointed out that Israel doesn't exist on that map, its shown as Syrian territory. That's the most obvious proof of it being propaganda.

[Crumpets]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

US publicly accuses Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over brutal Khashoggi murder for first time

While we probably won't see the end of the Saudi dictatorship during his term He's certainly moving in the right direction so far.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/opinion/sunday/saudi-arabia-biden-khashoggi.html

And if he had done anything stronger, you'd say he's pushing for another regime change war. Instead, what is your preferred path forward with regard to Iran and Saudi Arabia?

[Ferguson97]

It actually makes my blood boil how dumb Millennials and Gen Z are about foreign policy. Just no idea of how the real world works. Sorry it isn’t all kittens and rainbows.

[Hammy]

It actually makes my blood boil how dumb Millennials and Gen Z are about foreign policy. Just no idea of how the real world works. Sorry it isn’t all kittens and rainbows.

This kind of condescending strawman attitude is why Dems aren't taken seriously on foreign policy.

[Horus]

It actually makes my blood boil how dumb Millennials and Gen Z are about foreign policy. Just no idea of how the real world works. Sorry it isn’t all kittens and rainbows.

Which generations invaded Iraq? Grenada? Countless other useless nation building exercises?

Millennials and Gen Z have amazing views on foreign policy and hopefully the next few decades will see both the military and prison industrial complexes dismantled.

Remember what Eisenhower warned us about.

[Ancestral Republican]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

and worth remembering that one of the largest killings of socialists & communists since 1945 occurred in Iran in the 1980s.

No leftists are "defending a theocratic regime" we are questioning the wisdom of continuously using it as a boogeyman in the region for endless warfare.

Plus, those theocrats are in power because of America and the UK. Don't ever forget that. Just like Guatemala, Chile, Burkina Faso, Cambodia and countless other situations where western "intelligence" agencies were responsible for the ascension of dictators.

[Crumpets]

It actually makes my blood boil how dumb Millennials and Gen Z are about foreign policy. Just no idea of how the real world works. Sorry it isn’t all kittens and rainbows.

Which generations invaded Iraq? Grenada? Countless other useless nation building exercises?

Millennials and Gen Z have amazing views on foreign policy and hopefully the next few decades will see both the military and prison industrial complexes dismantled.

Remember what Eisenhower warned us about.

If I could try to put Ferguson's post in other words, because I do think he's on to something, I'd say there's a massive disconnect between those liberals who lived through 9/11 and the leadup to and early days of the Iraq War and those who have no memory of it. The former tend to be much more pessimistic about what the US can feasibly change about its foreign policy but also perhaps more idealistic about the US role in the world, while the latter tend to see a broader range of policy options as feasible but also see the US as a more fundamentally harmful actor. It's not to say one is better or worse.

Millennial liberals and older remember when the US could use force sparingly and work with partners around the world to work towards common goals of security, democracy, and prosperity. We also remember the inevitability of war with the Taliban post-9/11 and how strong the Cheney-Rumsfeld juggernaut was that led us into war with Saddam and kept us there even despite the immense public betrayal. The Bush-era foreign policy feels like an aberration to this crowd. At the same time, we're still shaped by the desire to see "justice" for 9/11, whatever that means, and will view any effort to "bring our troops home" with extreme skepticism for how many times we have fought and failed to achieve that end and were called terrorist sympathizers for even suggesting it.

In contrast, younger generations can rightfully look back on the Bush era without the weight of having to have had a position at the time. It means a lot of the nuance is lost, but it also allows for some additional level of objectivity. The Iraq War was so obviously wrong and so widely supported by the political classes that of course it was a bipartisan conspiracy to take us into an unwinnable war for oil and imperialist reasons and we must break strongly from that mindset to build a foreign policy for the 21st century.

I'm not sure if there's anything we can do to bring the two together apart from living through more shared experiences, but if I could recommend something to younger posters who see the Iraq War for what it was and want to know how it had so much support initially, go on to YouTube and check out some of the news coverage from 2002-2003, especially from more liberal outlets like MSNBC and see what the conversation looked like at the time.

[Red Velvet]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

I like Iran more than Saudi Arabia. I mean, if I had to pick one of the two to live. Even considering the higher risk of possibly entering in serious conflict with US, Iran culture is just fascinating and the country looks beautiful. I want to visit there one day.

Neither are ideal when you’re used to a very different culture and christianity stuff, but Saudi Arabia comparisons makes me look at Iran as a very liberal country on many regards and I’m not even a woman.

Also, I suspect a lot of Saudi Arabia’s wealth is weirdly distributed and economic disparities may be higher than Iran. There are lots of good looking areas to impress the foreigners but the country overall doesn’t really look beautiful, even the super fancy places appear to have a fake artificial vibe to it all. Iran’s beauty feels more natural and spontaneous.

[It’s so Joever]

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

Nobody in this thread has defended (or even mentioned) the US alliance with Saudi Arabia.

My time to shine!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

US publicly accuses Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over brutal Khashoggi murder for first time

While we probably won't see the end of the Saudi dictatorship during his term He's certainly moving in the right direction so far.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/opinion/sunday/saudi-arabia-biden-khashoggi.html

And if he had done anything stronger, you'd say he's pushing for another regime change war. Instead, what is your preferred path forward with regard to Iran and Saudi Arabia?

Lets not act like Saudi Arabia is somehow better than Iran. So we can stop killing Shia Yemeni children for Saudi Arabia.

[Ancestral Republican]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

Funny how some so-called "liberals" are so eager to be allies with a nasty theocratic regime (Saudi Arabia).

As Dule says, this really isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Joe Biden has been rather pro Saudi Arabia.

I like Iran more than Saudi Arabia. I mean, if I had to pick one of the two to live. Even considering the higher risk of possibly entering in serious conflict with US, Iran culture is just fascinating and the country looks beautiful. I want to visit there one day.

Neither are ideal when you’re used to a very different culture and christianity stuff, but Saudi Arabia comparisons makes me look at Iran as a very liberal country on many regards and I’m not even a woman.

Also, I suspect a lot of Saudi Arabia’s wealth is weirdly distributed and economic disparities may be higher than Iran. There are lots of good looking areas to impress the foreigners but the country overall doesn’t really look beautiful, even the super fancy places appear to have a fake artificial vibe to it all. Iran’s beauty feels more natural and spontaneous.

I agree. Saudi Arabia and Iran are very similar in terms of human rights abuses, we just picked the Sunni team so Saudi Arabia is our beautiful ally and Iran is the devil. But on balance Iran would be a better fit - Jews actually live there and worship freely, with some problems as a small minority, but Judaism is outright banned in Saudi Arabia. So that would be a big factor for me.

[Blair]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

This map of course neglects to mention the web of influence and intervention that Iran has in many other countries in the region. Funny how some so-called “leftists” are so eager to defend a nasty theocratic regime.

and worth remembering that one of the largest killings of socialists & communists since 1945 occurred in Iran in the 1980s.

No leftists are "defending a theocratic regime" we are questioning the wisdom of continuously using it as a boogeyman in the region for endless warfare.

Plus, those theocrats are in power because of America and the UK. Don't ever forget that. Just like Guatemala, Chile, Burkina Faso, Cambodia and countless other situations where western "intelligence" agencies were responsible for the ascension of dictators.

I know but I think almost every social democrat/progressive on here has criticised the long-running practice of installing sh**tty & awful dictators?

But that doesn't excuse the fact that some people on the left have crossed from (rightly) opposing the forever wars into practice of actively defending Iran & buying into rubbish that the regime pumps out.

On the point of Iran it's certainly easy to draw the line between the '53 coup & the toppling of the Shah- but people forget that the Iranian Revolution was made up of both religious conservatives but also students & communists- it was just that the second group lost the power struggle after the revolution.

The Shah's regime was designed to fall but the outcome (a reactionary Iranian Government) was not a guarantee!

[Oakvale]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

I don't understand what this map is supposed to represent?

It looks like someone just randomly pasted a bunch of US flags in some brain-damaged attempt at a tankie hot take. Why are there are a bunch in Pakistan, to take just one glaring example??

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

I don't understand what this map is supposed to represent?

It looks like someone just randomly pasted a bunch of US flags in some brain-damaged attempt at a tankie hot take. Why are there are a bunch in Pakistan, to take just one glaring example??

That and the complete lack of flags in Israel and only one in Saudi Arabia raises questions. One would expect far more of our presence in the two Middle Eastern countries we're actually allied with.

Also, when did Syria annex Israel?

[brucejoel99]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

I don't understand what this map is supposed to represent?

It looks like someone just randomly pasted a bunch of US flags in some brain-damaged attempt at a tankie hot take. Why are there are a bunch in Pakistan, to take just one glaring example??

That and the complete lack of flags in Israel and only one in Saudi Arabia raises questions. One would expect far more of our presence in the two Middle Eastern countries we're actually allied with.

Also, when did Syria annex Israel?

Completely unrelated but holy sh*t, don't scare us like that with your new signature.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

I don't understand what this map is supposed to represent?

It looks like someone just randomly pasted a bunch of US flags in some brain-damaged attempt at a tankie hot take. Why are there are a bunch in Pakistan, to take just one glaring example??

While there are plenty of bases that had been used by the U.S. in Pakistan, they're horribly misplaced.

[Crumpets]

Iran is clearly the aggressor.

I don't understand what this map is supposed to represent?

It looks like someone just randomly pasted a bunch of US flags in some brain-damaged attempt at a tankie hot take. Why are there are a bunch in Pakistan, to take just one glaring example??

That and the complete lack of flags in Israel and only one in Saudi Arabia raises questions. One would expect far more of our presence in the two Middle Eastern countries we're actually allied with.

Also, when did Syria annex Israel?

Also when did Iran annex the entire southern part of the Caspian Sea? Also why have all religious references been removed from the Iranian flag?

[Lief 🗽]

The American People strongly support blowing up Hezbollah death squads. Wonderful!

https://twitter.com/usa_polling/status/1366419497213689861?s=21