War on Terror is Lost

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The current Israel/Hezbollah skirmish is the tipping-point in the War on Terror.

If it wasn’t already clear, Israel’s lack of will to fight (mirroring the US lack of will) has made the outcome of the War on Terror known: The Muslims will Win. 

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Lessons learned:

Wars efforts of half-measures fail.

The naïve idea that democracy itself brings civility has proven to be, well, naïve. 

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

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Consequences:

Now that the terrorists have won, the entire Arab and Muslim world will become bolder in attacking Israel and its main (only) ally, the United States.  And the US, with 130k troops stuck in the middle of the Muslim world with the hopeless goal of bringing civility to the region, is destined to withdraw. 

In the long term, the US, shrinking on the world’s stage, will drop its support for Israel.  It is not a matter of if, but when. 

[MODU]

The current Israel/Hezbollah skirmish is the tipping-point in the War on Terror.

If it wasn’t already clear, Israel’s lack of will to fight (mirroring the US lack of will) has made the outcome of the War on Terror known: The Muslims will Win. 

Errr . . . umm . . . huh?  What do you mean "lack of will?"  Israel has increased the number of troops at the border, extended the range in which they plan to clear out Hezbollah forces, and have stated that there will be no cease fire until Hezbollah has been beaten and an international force (with the strength to actually fire a gun) is placed in the "buffer" zone.  That not only takes a lot of will, it takes a lot of guts too, considering they could be attacked from multiple fronts at once of their neighbors decided to do so.

[jerusalemcar5]

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

That's a terrible stereotype.  You are a horrible person.

Consequences:

Now that the terrorists have won, the entire Arab and Muslim world will become bolder in attacking Israel and its main (only) ally, the United States. 

The entire?  Many Muslims don't even support the attacks on Israel or the U.S.  Israel has far more allies than just the United States.  Pretty much the entire developed world favors Israel.  You are blwoing this way out of proportion.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

That's a terrible stereotype.  You are a horrible person.

And you have obviously never seen my wife angry. 

[MODU]

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

That's a terrible stereotype. 

Agreed.  I'm tired of these generalizations in regards to Arabs or Muslims.  Imagine if we used Fred Phelps and his brood as the halmark of Christianity, and constantly stated home wacked out Christians are?  Please, be more mature on this issue in the future.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Agreed.  I'm tired of these generalizations in regards to Arabs or Muslims.  Imagine if we used Fred Phelps and his brood as the halmark of Christianity, and constantly stated home wacked out Christians are?  Please, be more mature on this issue in the future.

Sorry, I forgot my laminated Pocket Guide to Friendly Arab-Muslim Nations at home.

Doesn’t maturity require the examination and comparison of facts?:

Christianity:  I would not have heard of Phelps if it weren’t for people like you pointing him out.  I have no contact or association with Phelps.  He has zero influence over me.

Islam: The populous is supported by mosques which, in turn, indoctrinate the populous into hatred. Their societies are not integrated, nor are they tolerant of other religions.  Their societies are corrupt from top to bottom, and as such, as lost in a constant state of poverty.

[MODU]

Agreed.  I'm tired of these generalizations in regards to Arabs or Muslims.  Imagine if we used Fred Phelps and his brood as the halmark of Christianity, and constantly stated home wacked out Christians are?  Please, be more mature on this issue in the future.

Sorry, I forgot my laminated Pocket Guide to Friendly Arab-Muslim Nations at home.

Doesn’t maturity require the examination and comparison of facts?:

Christianity:  I would not have heard of Phelps if it weren’t for people like you pointing him out.  I have no contact or association with Phelps.  He has zero influence over me.

Islam: The populous is supported by mosques which, in turn, indoctrinate the populous into hatred. Their societies are not integrated, nor are they tolerant of other religions.  Their societies are corrupt from top to bottom, and as such, as lost in a constant state of poverty.

[Joe Republic]

Doesn’t maturity require the examination and comparison of facts?:

Islam:  I would not have heard of al-Zarqawi if it weren’t for people like you pointing him out.  I have no contact or association with al-Zarqawi.  He has zero influence over me.

Christianity: The populous is supported by churches which, in turn, indoctrinate the populous into hatred. Their societies are not integrated, nor are they tolerant of other religions.  Their societies are corrupt from top to bottom, and as such, as lost in a constant state of poverty.

[Joe Republic]

As for me, I don't really give a damn about Israel or the war on terror.  The former is a two-bit stretch of desert the size of New Jersey, and the latter is just as unwinnable as the war on drugs and gun control.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Islam:  I would not have heard of al-Zarqawi if it weren’t for people like you pointing him out.  I have no contact or association with al-Zarqawi.  He has zero influence over me.

Christianity: The populous is supported by churches which, in turn, indoctrinate the populous into hatred. Their societies are not integrated, nor are they tolerant of other religions.  Their societies are corrupt from top to bottom, and as such, as lost in a constant state of poverty.

Islam:
1) al-Zarqawi’s organization, al Qaeda, is just a tiny bit larger and influential than Phelps. And as demonstrated by the anti-American literature found throughout mosques within the US prior to 9/11, along with the recent riots over cartoons in Europe, Islam is still radical even when transplanted in the West.
2) The populous of almost all muslim nations are dependent upon the mosques for their very survival.  It is the mosque which feeds and educates the masses.


Christianity:
1) In the vast majority of cases, the populous is NOT supported by the church.  Rather the populous supports the church.
2) The church teaches the populous forgiveness of the sinner through faith and adherence to Christ Jesus. 
3) The church issues no threats to non-believers.
4) Christain societies are the most integrated and tolerant of other religions.
5) They are the least corrupted societies on earth.
6) They are the richest societies on earth.

[Michael Z]

The current Israel/Hezbollah skirmish is the tipping-point in the War on Terror.

If it wasn’t already clear, Israel’s lack of will to fight (mirroring the US lack of will)

Um, what?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, so it is a war against Islam. Thanks for clearing that up.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No sweeping generalisations there, nuh-uh.

This post says more about the mindset of the far right than it does about the state of the War on Terror, and I personally find the Christian fundamentalists, with their wishes for an Apocalypse (Rapture) just as frightening and unsettling as the likes of Al-Qaeda, as they both want the same thing: a religiously inspired apocalypse in the name of fulfilling "prophecies".

[Filuwaúrdjan]

2) The populous of almost all muslim nations are dependent upon the mosques for their very survival.  It is the mosque which feeds and educates the masses.

Um... no... not at all. Mosque's aren't actually that important in most branches of Islam, and going to a Mosque (note; most Muslims can't understand Arabic, beyond a few words, so can't actually understand a lot of what is said in 'em) is essentially a social thing. Certainly the Pakistani communities over here do most of their religious stuff at home.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

This post says more about the mindset of the far right than it does about the state of the War on Terror, and I personally find the Christian fundamentalists, with their wishes for an Apocalypse (Rapture) just as frightening and unsettling as the likes of Al-Qaeda, as they both want the same thing: a religiously inspired apocalypse in the name of fulfilling "prophecies".

Hate to burst your bubble, but I believe the Rapture occurs PRIOR to Armageddon.  So, to me, there is nothing that can be done or needs to be done on my part to hurry along the Rapture.

To me, the “War on Terror” is simply background noise.  Whether the US wins or loses the war will not hasten or delay Christ’s Coming.

Basically, I have no influence over the timing of the Rapture, so I don’t try to influence world events in an attempt to “bring on the Rapture.”

[David S]

The current Israel/Hezbollah skirmish is the tipping-point in the War on Terror.

If it wasn’t already clear, Israel’s lack of will to fight (mirroring the US lack of will) has made the outcome of the War on Terror known: The Muslims will Win. 

May I ask what you think Israel should do? It seems to me like they've pulled out all the stops, short of nuking Lebanon.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

May I ask what you think Israel should do? It seems to me like they've pulled out all the stops, short of nuking Lebanon.

They attempted to win with only a few ground troops backed by air support.  The result is a Muslim populace that now believes, for the first time in a generation, that Israel can be defeated.  The impression of a vulnerable Israel is a sure recipe for a much wider war.  And if the Muslims believe Israel is vulnerable, then they will surely attack BOTH Israel and its main ally, the US.

The damage is already done, hope of destroying Israel has been rekindled in the hearts of Muslims.

[Michael Z]

May I ask what you think Israel should do? It seems to me like they've pulled out all the stops, short of nuking Lebanon.

They attempted to win with only a few ground troops backed by air support.  The result is a Muslim populace that now believes, for the first time in a generation, that Israel can be defeated.  The impression of a vulnerable Israel is a sure recipe for a much wider war.  And if the Muslims believe Israel is vulnerable, then they will surely attack BOTH Israel and its main ally, the US.

The damage is already done, hope of destroying Israel has been rekindled in the hearts of Muslims.

My worry is not whether people believe Israel to be weak, but the amount of Lebanese citizens who will have been radicalised by the bombing campaign. Many people who otherwise wouldn't have supported Hizbollah will certainly do so now because they regard Hizbollah as defending their country.

[J. J.]

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

A sizable portion of the Arab population of Israel is Christian as is the a sizable portion of the Lebanese Arab population.  Thanks so much for labeling Christianity "not civil."

[opebo]

The 'War on Terror' is fake, jmfcst.

[David S]

May I ask what you think Israel should do? It seems to me like they've pulled out all the stops, short of nuking Lebanon.

They attempted to win with only a few ground troops backed by air support.  The result is a Muslim populace that now believes, for the first time in a generation, that Israel can be defeated.  The impression of a vulnerable Israel is a sure recipe for a much wider war.  And if the Muslims believe Israel is vulnerable, then they will surely attack BOTH Israel and its main ally, the US.

The damage is already done, hope of destroying Israel has been rekindled in the hearts of Muslims.

My worry is not whether people believe Israel to be weak, but the amount of Lebanese citizens who will have been radicalised by the bombing campaign. Many people who otherwise wouldn't have supported Hizbollah will certainly do so now because they regard Hizbollah as defending their country.

Israeli bombs have killed quite a few women and children. I wonder how most people would feel towards an enemy who killed their wife and child.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

A sizable portion of the Arab population of Israel is Christian as is the a sizable portion of the Lebanese Arab population.  Thanks so much for labeling Christianity "not civil."

1) obviously, my remarks pertain to the Arabs as a nation, not every individual Arab

2) My wife is a Lebanese Arab Christian, so your mischaracterization of my remarks doesn't hold a lot of water

3) The book of Genesis prophesied that Arabs would be wild and warish, so go argue with the scriptures of your "Christianity"

[J. J.]

The Arabs are not civil, neither is their religion.

A sizable portion of the Arab population of Israel is Christian as is the a sizable portion of the Lebanese Arab population.  Thanks so much for labeling Christianity "not civil."

1) obviously, my remarks pertain to the Arabs as a nation, not every individual Arab

2) My wife is a Lebanese Arab Christian, so your mischaracterization of my remarks doesn't hold a lot of water

3) The book of Genesis prophesied that Arabs would be wild and warish, so go argue with the scriptures of your "Christianity"

You didn't say Hezbollah, or "Arab nations," or identify a particular nation; you said "Arabs."  It's quoted in complete context.  By your "definition," You wife is "not civil."  I don't know her, but I expect she is quite civil.

To be consistent with you your claim of what Genesis says, your wife would not be civil.  I expect that interpretation is wrong.

[dazzleman]

May I ask what you think Israel should do? It seems to me like they've pulled out all the stops, short of nuking Lebanon.

They attempted to win with only a few ground troops backed by air support.  The result is a Muslim populace that now believes, for the first time in a generation, that Israel can be defeated.  The impression of a vulnerable Israel is a sure recipe for a much wider war.  And if the Muslims believe Israel is vulnerable, then they will surely attack BOTH Israel and its main ally, the US.

The damage is already done, hope of destroying Israel has been rekindled in the hearts of Muslims.

My worry is not whether people believe Israel to be weak, but the amount of Lebanese citizens who will have been radicalised by the bombing campaign. Many people who otherwise wouldn't have supported Hizbollah will certainly do so now because they regard Hizbollah as defending their country.

Of course, it was Hezbollah who caused Lebanon to be attacked in the first place.  I suspect that the population in the Hezbollah-dominated parts of Lebanon was already radicalized before this war.  Even if they weren't, that didn't stop Hezbollah from using the area as a staging ground for attack.

There are no easy answers, but I really don't see toleration of a threat from Hezbollah in a vain attempt to win the 'hearts and minds' of the Lebanese as a real answer.

[MODU]

Look, I'll make this fairly simple.  The constant generalization of a group of people in the context as it has been stated here is borderline racist.  If you have a problem with "Arabs" as a whole, then that's your problem.  Just keep your ignorance to yourself, and we'll all think better of you.

Thanks.  That's all I have left to say in regards to this.

[??????????]

Israli soldiers have been taken before, but this time the attacks began under the premise that Iran is behind them just as our leaders are hinting about going after Iran.  I feel like I am being conditioned.

Iran openly admits their support of Hezbollah, the only thing you are being "conditioned for" is the facts.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

MODU:

Look, I'll make this fairly simple.  The constant generalization of a group of people in the context as it has been stated here is borderline racist.

Racism - a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

And what, exactly, is the superiority I am denying Arabs?  How I am claiming to be superior to them?  Go ahead, search all my previous posts on this forum and on the old forum.  I have been on this forum for at least 4 years, surely in all that time my posts reveal whether or not I believe my race was blessed by God with some superiority over other races.  Surely in all those years my true feelings would have been revealed.

Even though you are probably too lazy to search my posts, knowing that my wife and my 4 children are of Arab decent would certainly warrant some hesitation before jumping to conclusions. 

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Gen 17:20 “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.”

So, I recognize that Ishmael and his descendents were blessed by God.  Yet, if you stop jumping to shallow conclusions, you’ll find that I NEVER, NOT ONCE, stated that God ever blessed my race.

So, again I ask, how I am claiming superiority over the Arabs?

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Gen 16:12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him.”

This biblical prophecy pertains to Ishmael and his descendents.  Does this mean that the bible portrayed every single one of his descendents as wild?  No, in fact, the bible records some of his descendents being worshipers of the biblical God (not to be confused with Allah).  And Ishmael’s descendents were among those listening to Peter’s first sermon (Acts 2:11).

Just as the US being led by the GOP doesn’t make every American a Republican, the prophecy of Gen 16:12 does NOT mark every Arab.  Rather it is a statement regarding how the Arab nations function as a nation.  It is a prophecy of how the Arab nation will play out their role in God’s play. The Arab nations will be the antagonists and will oppose the children born of promise, both Israel and Christians.

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The bible also gives the Jews this label: “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people." (Isa 65:2; Rom 10:21)

I understand this statement to be directed towards the Jews.  So, are you now going to say that I am racist towards Jews, even though I am a Zionist and have argued with forum members that the Jews should still be considered part of God’s chosen people and that Jesus will turn godliness away from Israel when he returns and save a large portion of the Jews?

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Psa 2:1 Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain.

I understand this to be a prophecy against ALL NATIONS, and ALL RACES.  So, are you now going to accuse me of being prejudice against all races, even my own?

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Don’t view these biblical passages as being racist, as if certain races were superior to others.  Rather see them as a prophecy of how world events are to unfold: the Arab/Israeli conflict is a continuation of the friction between Abraham’s first two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (a fact religious Jews and Arabs will NOT deny).  And the descendents of Ishmael and Isaac are prophesied to continue fighting over Jerusalem until the return of Christ.

“Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Jesus Christ, Luke 21:24)

The New Testament church age, from the death of Christ until his return, is the “times of the Gentiles”.  So, when Gentiles no longer trample Jerusalem, you know that the end is near.

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In closing:  To say that racism is involved with proclaiming the roles of the nations during the last days is missing the big picture:  The roles of Jerusalem and Israel are continuous throughout the bible, from Genesis to Revelation. 

1)  Jerusalem is the center of the world’s stage.  It is the city from where Melchizedek (a forerunner of Christ) ruled, it is where Abraham offered Isaac as a sacrifice, it is the city chosen by God for his Temple, it is where Jesus was crucified, it is the birthplace of Christianity and witnessed the first Christian sermon of the church age, it is the city from which the AntiChrist will rule, it is the city against all the armies of the world will gather, it is the city where Jesus will return, and it is the city from where Jesus will rule. 

2) Israel is God’s time marker.  Israel, since its conception in Genesis, has always been front and center in God’s plan.  Israel, and Israel alone, is the nation God placed on earth as a method for mankind to determine points in time in relation to God’s plan.  Simply, we can tell where we are in God’s timetable by observing the events surrounding Israel.

And here is what time it is:  The nation of Israel was been reformed (1948) and has regained military control over Jerusalem (1967).  Rebuilding the Temple is the next major event (date unknown) and will be the culmination of the 4000 year old conflict between Ishmael and Isaac, after which time the AntiChrist will be revealed (timeframe of this event in relation to the rebuilding the temple is unknown) and will rule from the rebuilt Temple.

Now, if you want to judge me as racist because I believe the MAJORITY of Arabs are wild and warish, and therefore the actions of Arab nations are simply a reflection of the attitude of the majority of Arabs…then, hey, I am guilty as charged.  Yet, also bear in mind I also recognize that the bible prophesied that a MAJORITY of Jews would reject Christ, yet that doesn’t make me anti-Jewish nor does it make me view myself as superior to the Jews.  Likewise, accepting biblical prophesy concerning the Arabs doesn’t make me anti-Arab, nor does it make me superior to them.  I simply accept the biblical defined roles of the nations (not to mention that I accept the obvious reality that these prophecies concerning the Jews and Arabs are being played out before my eyes every night on the news).

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J.J.:

whatever