2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[GeorgiaModerate]

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[Compuzled_One]

So Kennedy has apparently gained in the Race to the WH aggegate poll, as he's now at 14.2%. Trump is being hurt by this, he's now at 2.1% ahead instead of 2.6%. I'm actually surprised, I thought Kennedy would pull equally. Some other polls have him mostly at equal percentages, or slightly below, but one by American Values has him at 19%, which could mean he could score higher than Perot did in 1996 if that poll is right and he keeps it up, since third parties typically score hgalf what they get in the polls.

[GeorgiaModerate]

So Kennedy has apparently gained in the Race to the WH aggegate poll, as he's now at 14.2%. Trump is being hurt by this, he's now at 2.1% ahead instead of 2.6%. I'm actually surprised, I thought Kennedy would pull equally. Some other polls have him mostly at equal percentages, or slightly below, but one by American Values has him at 19%, which could mean he could score higher than Perot did in 1996 if that poll is right and he keeps it up, since third parties typically score twice what they get.

Historically, the final vote total for third parties tends to be far below what they were polling well before the election.  People who respond to a poll saying they'll vote for a third party often have second thoughts about their vote being wasted and end up voting for one of the major parties.

[Compuzled_One]

Yes, that's why I mentioned he'd at most get more than Perot did in 1996-I factored in the fact that polls for third party candidates usually show twice the amount of support as votes they will receive.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Yes, that's why I mentioned he'd at most get more than Perot did in 1996-I factored in the fact that polls for third party candidates usually show twice the amount of support as votes they will receive.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.  I originally parsed your post as meaning the other way around (their final result would be higher than their poll standing).

[PSOL]

https://twitter.com/VerminSupreme/status/1710812369566249381

[ReallySuper]

The SPUSA will nominate a candidate next month according to SG, it is still unknown if the Greens are going to try and court their vote. Previously SPUSA was angry at Hawkins over not reforming the Greens to their liking, and with Hawkins and West out it will be seen what they and SAlt for that matter does.

The SPUSA is a weird party. I've been on Atlas for, what, ten years now, and every time they nominate a ticket it seems to come out of the blue. I've never heard of a Socialist Party candidate declaring their intent to run before the convention like Green or Libertarian candidates do.

Didn't Cindy Sheehan try and run on their ticket in 2016 but was rejected because she wasn't a dues-paying member?

The reason for this is because it’s probably chosen by a council running SPUSA while the Greens and Libertarian governing structure is—for detriment of both parties—influenced by the DNC and RNC as there are many former members of each.

It seems that SPUSA may have a strong line in not endorsing other candidates if they don’t have a relationship or prior membership. Hawkins and Sonia Johnson were probable dual paying members.

Cindy Sheehan’s Revolutionary Organization of Labor, of which she was a member for an indeterminate amount of time when organizing against the Iraq war, probably had no close relationship with SPUSA and their only prior endorsements are to the Greens in 2004 and Ralph Nader beforehand.

the spusa website says the national convention will select its nominees next weekend. the announced presidential candidates, based on their google form questionnaire responses, dont seem particularly... uh.. great. (although the person only running for vp sounds ok)

the convention schedule also implies that they will have a vote on whether to run a presidential campaign at all:

5:45 pm  Presidential campaign discussion
Vote on running a presidential campaign
 (if applicable)
Candidate statements and presentation
Voting
Adjourn

they would probably be better off not running anyone than running an unserious candidate who will only further discredit the dying party

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The remarkable thing about the Kennedy campaign so far is how boring it is. Literally all it is is rhetoric about how the two-party system is broken, sprinkled with a bit of anti-vaccine stuff, while taking Moderate Hero stances on every other issue.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

update: lol
https://twitter.com/TheMessenger/status/1712953882442096871?s=20

[PSOL]

After decades of only having one candidate, they have quadrupled that number to 4 in less than 3 years. Ideally SPUSA should try and get a bunch of endorsements from parties like SAlt and state green party chairs, and maybe even better get in contact with the PSL and then try and get over 100,000 votes as a strong socialist ticket. Thanks to Jill I doubt another socialist gets nominated by the Greens sadly.

The former officeholder is so whatever and the fact that the last candidate has poor speaking skills but good views is a missed opportunity. The female VP contender is the co-chair of the party so good for her.

The remarkable thing about the Kennedy campaign so far is how boring it is. Literally all it is is rhetoric about how the two-party system is broken, sprinkled with a bit of anti-vaccine stuff, while taking Moderate Hero stances on every other issue.

Anyone using the two party system as the main plank of a campaign is idiotic. RFK Jr also isn’t charismatic at all and is the second most reptilian candidate of this race. Also the ugliest candidate getting any sort of coverage.

Kucinich according to the comment section is all worn out.

[GeorgiaModerate]

LOL!

https://twitter.com/baseballot/status/1713003718692528279

[Mr. Smith]

update: lol
https://twitter.com/TheMessenger/status/1712953882442096871?s=20

Yet Jill Stein is still carrying water for Cornel West despite the same thing, and The Greens still have no one atm.

[AltWorlder]

Cenk Uyghur will somehow get more votes thank RFK Jr. and Cornel West combined

[wbrocks67]

Williamson only brought in $825K last quarter, and she spent more than that. Not sure how much longer she can keep this grift going

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1713955133132829075

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Williamson only brought in $825K last quarter, and she spent more than that. Not sure how much longer she can keep this grift going

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1713955133132829075

Interesting, but this probably warrants it's own thread.

[MichaelM24]

A couple of other people have sent in questionnaires to the SPUSA to be considered in their nominating process.

Brian Moore, who was the 2008 SPUSA nominee (receiving 6,582 votes, getting 11th place), is apparently attempting to get the nomination.

What I found interesting is that he apparently is also attempting to get the Green's nomination (which was news to my brother, who is state-wide delegate for the Green Party), in a move similiar to Hawkins' in 2020.

Moore's now 80, which I don't love, but it could be that he'd an okay choice. Given the multiple elections he's ran, and the parties he's been connected to, though, I don't think the SPUSA will sense much in the way of loyalty from him.

Eric Chester, who was the SPUSA Vice Presidental nominee in 1996 (and campaigned for the presidential nomination in 2000, 2004, and 2008), might not be a terrible choice either, but he's also rather old.

Not sure what the SPUSA's plans are, but they should be interesting to watch unfold.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I've heard of both Moore (a Floridian) and Chester before. I didn't expect either of them to be candidates again due to their relatively old ages.

Brian Moore doing a reverse Howie Hawkins is interesting.

[flyboy1058]

Taken from the website:https://apnews.com/article/rfk-kennedy-election-vaccines-2ccde2df146f57b5e8c26e8494f0a16a

When 12-year-old Braden Fahey collapsed during football practice and died, it was just the beginning of his parents’ nightmare.

Deep in their grief a few months later, Gina and Padrig Fahey received news that shocked them to their core: A favorite photo of their beloved son was plastered on the cover of a book that falsely argues COVID-19 vaccines caused a spike of sudden deaths among healthy young people.

The book, called “Cause Unknown,” was co-published by an anti-vaccine group led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., President John F. Kennedy’s nephew, who is now running for president. Kennedy wrote the foreword and promoted the book, tweeting that it details data showing “ COVID shots are a crime against humanity.”
The Faheys couldn’t understand how Braden’s face appeared on the book’s cover, or why his name appeared inside it.
Braden never received the vaccine. His death in August 2022 was due to a malformed blood vessel in his brain. No one ever contacted them to ask about their son’s death, or for permission to use the photo. No one asked to confirm the date of his death — which the book misdated by a year. When the Faheys and residents of their town in California tried to contact the publisher and author to get Braden and his picture taken out of the book, no one responded.

“We reached out in every way possible,” Gina Fahey told The Associated Press in an emotional interview. “We waited months and months to hear back, and nothing.”

How could a member of one of the most influential political dynasties in American history be involved in such a shoddy, irresponsible project, the Faheys wondered?

Braden’s story is just one example of how Kennedy, son of the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, has used his famous name to disseminate false information about vaccines and other topics in a time when spreading conspiracy theories has become a powerful way to grow a constituency. An AP examination of his work and its impact found Kennedy has earned money, fame and political clout while leaving people like the Faheys suffering.

Now, Kennedy’s decision to drop his Democratic bid for president and run as an independent gives him a new spotlight in an election that’s currently heading toward a rematch between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump. There’s concern in both parties that he could emerge as a spoiler who could affect the outcome of the campaign in unexpected ways. And at a time when Republicans in the 2024 race also are sowing doubt about vaccine effectiveness, it threatens to further promote harmful misinformation that already has cost lives.

One mom told AP about how she had delayed important care for her child because she believed Kennedy’s vaccine falsehoods. A former elected leader described being harassed by Kennedy’s followers. Doctors and nurses recounted how his work has hurt people in the U.S. and abroad.

Kennedy’s campaign did not respond to several emails seeking comment for this article, but after AP contacted Kennedy and others involved in the book last week, the president of Skyhorse Publishing, which co-published it, texted the Faheys, offering to talk. Gina Fahey told AP she felt he reached out only after it became clear the situation could harm his reputation.

“There’s still that lack of compassion that was always there from the beginning,” she said, adding that she is hesitant to engage with them now because she doesn’t trust their intentions. “It’s only now that they’re reaching out, days prior to knowing this story is going to be released.”

Braden’s parents have read vicious comments from people who falsely blame vaccines for their son’s death. They say seeing Braden’s memory being misrepresented by Kennedy and others has been deeply painful.

“When you barely feel like you can even come up for air, you just get smacked back down again by this,” Gina Fahey said.

“It’s very manipulative. And you know, he’s making money off of our tragedies,” she said, adding, “How could you want somebody running our country that operates like that?”

[flyboy1058]

Taken from the website:https://apnews.com/article/rfk-kennedy-election-vaccines-2ccde2df146f57b5e8c26e8494f0a16a

When 12-year-old Braden Fahey collapsed during football practice and died, it was just the beginning of his parents’ nightmare.

Deep in their grief a few months later, Gina and Padrig Fahey received news that shocked them to their core: A favorite photo of their beloved son was plastered on the cover of a book that falsely argues COVID-19 vaccines caused a spike of sudden deaths among healthy young people.

The book, called “Cause Unknown,” was co-published by an anti-vaccine group led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., President John F. Kennedy’s nephew, who is now running for president. Kennedy wrote the foreword and promoted the book, tweeting that it details data showing “ COVID shots are a crime against humanity.”
The Faheys couldn’t understand how Braden’s face appeared on the book’s cover, or why his name appeared inside it.
Braden never received the vaccine. His death in August 2022 was due to a malformed blood vessel in his brain. No one ever contacted them to ask about their son’s death, or for permission to use the photo. No one asked to confirm the date of his death — which the book misdated by a year. When the Faheys and residents of their town in California tried to contact the publisher and author to get Braden and his picture taken out of the book, no one responded.

“We reached out in every way possible,” Gina Fahey told The Associated Press in an emotional interview. “We waited months and months to hear back, and nothing.”

How could a member of one of the most influential political dynasties in American history be involved in such a shoddy, irresponsible project, the Faheys wondered?

Braden’s story is just one example of how Kennedy, son of the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, has used his famous name to disseminate false information about vaccines and other topics in a time when spreading conspiracy theories has become a powerful way to grow a constituency. An AP examination of his work and its impact found Kennedy has earned money, fame and political clout while leaving people like the Faheys suffering.

Now, Kennedy’s decision to drop his Democratic bid for president and run as an independent gives him a new spotlight in an election that’s currently heading toward a rematch between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump. There’s concern in both parties that he could emerge as a spoiler who could affect the outcome of the campaign in unexpected ways. And at a time when Republicans in the 2024 race also are sowing doubt about vaccine effectiveness, it threatens to further promote harmful misinformation that already has cost lives.

One mom told AP about how she had delayed important care for her child because she believed Kennedy’s vaccine falsehoods. A former elected leader described being harassed by Kennedy’s followers. Doctors and nurses recounted how his work has hurt people in the U.S. and abroad.

Kennedy’s campaign did not respond to several emails seeking comment for this article, but after AP contacted Kennedy and others involved in the book last week, the president of Skyhorse Publishing, which co-published it, texted the Faheys, offering to talk. Gina Fahey told AP she felt he reached out only after it became clear the situation could harm his reputation.

“There’s still that lack of compassion that was always there from the beginning,” she said, adding that she is hesitant to engage with them now because she doesn’t trust their intentions. “It’s only now that they’re reaching out, days prior to knowing this story is going to be released.”

Braden’s parents have read vicious comments from people who falsely blame vaccines for their son’s death. They say seeing Braden’s memory being misrepresented by Kennedy and others has been deeply painful.

“When you barely feel like you can even come up for air, you just get smacked back down again by this,” Gina Fahey said.

“It’s very manipulative. And you know, he’s making money off of our tragedies,” she said, adding, “How could you want somebody running our country that operates like that?”

[Jingizu]

Horrible candidate is horrible

[Lief 🗽]

“Brother Harlan Crow”
https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/1715038844129583389?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJ...

[ReallySuper]

recognizing the shared humanity of people we happen to have political disagreements with is a bad thing, obviously. we should be actively dehumanizing anyone who disagrees with us.

[AltWorlder]

Constitution Party seeking provisional nominations for a presidential candidate "and five or more would-be Cabinet members or Executive Appointees"

https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2023/10/constitution-party-seeks-provisional-candidates/

Always amused to hear that they're still around, especially it feels like 1) Don Trump stole their paleocon shtick and 2) Don Blankenship stole their party for the last election

[MichaelM24]

I feel legit bad for the Constitution Party. I don't care for their policies, but Darrell Castle's campaign in 2016 did a lot of work, and I was impressed by the votes they got. Then four years later, they got stuck with Blankenship.

Another candidate is going for the SPUSA nomination - Jasmine Sherman, who is also running in the Green Party's primary. Her questionnaire leaves a lot to be desired, personally, but still, having six individuals interesting in being the party's nominee is encouraging in some ways.

[Lief 🗽]

“Brother Harlan Crow”
https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/1715038844129583389?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJ...

lmao
https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/1715394377671946708?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJ...