Permit for the Keystone XL pipeline to be canceled on Biden's first day

[John Dule]

Can someone remind me what exactly the issue with the pipeline was? Why are the Natives protesting this-- environmental reasons or because it's passing through a sacred patch of grass or something?

[Joe Republic]

As a method of transporting oil and gas, pipelines are the most ecologically sound.

Unclear what this is, could you elaborate?

Oh nothing, just the Keystone XL pipeline spilling nearly 400,000 gallons of tar sands oil into a North Dakota wetland in November 2019.

[Splash]

Ugh

This is not a bad thing.
Do Native American treaties mean nothing to you?

If I remember correctly, tribal issues were already resolved by the courts in favor of the pipeline builder.  If that's Biden's reason for revoking the permit, he'll lose in court, and lose early.  As I stated earlier, he's going to need something considerably more substantial than "I think pipelines are bad" if he doesn't want to get slapped down as hard as Giuliani arguing why the courts should have overturned Trump losing the election.

Didn't a US judge already cancel a permit for construction of a portion of the pipeline last year? I think the reasoning was the an environmental impact study was never comprehensively conducted by the US Army Corps of Engineers in regards to endangered species.

In terms of a rationale for canceling the permit, I think the incoming administration will rely heavily on the Clean Water Act and other environmental regulations instead of tribal sovereignty. That is what the Obama administration used as its rationale for all the delays and denials too.

[Lambsbread]

RADICAL ECO SOCIALIST JOE BIDEN

[Badger]

There you go. A totally crazy decision on the first day. Who knows how many more crazy decisions of this kind will hit us by January 2025.

Definitely a strong campaign point in 2022.

Yes, THIS totally counts as a president making a "crazy" decision. So glad you're skilled at seeing what a president acts "crazy".

Leaving aside the rank hypocrisy, would you care to educate the rest of us as to why showing an ounce of regard for the environment over the profits of energy companies is somehow "crazy"?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The pipeline was basically dead anyway, wasn't it?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

$2.75 at Sheetz today.  $5 to follow in the not so distant future.

[Sbane]

It will be so good that America's President finally takes climate change seriously again, and he can lead the world rather than being left behind.

Can you explain how this helps with climate change? It just makes it more likely the oil at Cushing and other major terminals in Texas will be either domestic or from Venezuela/gulf states. It does not lower the amount of consumption of gasoline.

Innovation is the only thing that will solve the climate crisis. Actions like this only help liberals feel good about themselves while driving their eco-boost! Ford Explorer back to their 4 bd house that is nice and balmy while it is freezing outside.

[Sbane]

As a method of transporting oil and gas, pipelines are the most ecologically sound.

Oh wow, do you really think this makes your case? You got any actual data to back it up or just a couple more cherry picked photos?

While the right is out of touch with reality on most issues, this is one where the left is completely out of touch with reality.

[MillennialModerate]

I’m really not sure why he’d do this.

If it creates jobs and all.... seems like he’s playing into the hands of conservatives

[Alcibiades]

Can someone remind me what exactly the issue with the pipeline was? Why are the Natives protesting this-- environmental reasons or because it's passing through a sacred patch of grass or something?

The main issue was that it passes through the Nebraska Sandhills, an important ecosystem, and the Ogallala Aquifer, an important source of fresh water, and the potential for them being polluted by oil spills. And of course, whether it is wise to continue to encourage fossil fuel use.

[Joe Republic]

As a method of transporting oil and gas, pipelines are the most ecologically sound.

Oh wow, do you really think this makes your case? You got any actual data to back it up or just a couple more cherry picked photos?

While the right is out of touch with reality on most issues, this is one where the left is completely out of touch with reality.

What a strangely angry response to a simple piece of evidence that this specific oil pipeline that we are discussing has already inflicted serious damage to a local ecosystem.

I'll admit that I initially provided zero context for the photo, but it comes as no surprise that this is the first time many of you are seeing it.  It was big news at the time to anybody who gave a sh**t.

[DINGO Joe]

The pipeline was basically dead anyway, wasn't it?

yes

[ProudModerate2]

As a method of transporting oil and gas, pipelines are the most ecologically sound.

Oh wow, do you really think this makes your case? You got any actual data to back it up or just a couple more cherry picked photos?

While the right is out of touch with reality on most issues, this is one where the left is completely out of touch with reality.

What a strangely angry response to a simple piece of evidence that this specific oil pipeline that we are discussing has already inflicted serious damage to a local ecosystem.

I'll admit that I initially provided zero context for the photo, but it comes as no surprise that this is the first time many of you are seeing it.  It was big news at the time to anybody who gave a sh**t.

Honestly.
If people just did some basic research before claiming "fake news," they could see/read that this actually happened and yes ... it is true.
I remember it on the news when it was initially released.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/01/keystone-pipeline-leak-oil-spilled-north-dakota/4121954002/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/leak-keystone-pipeline-spills-9-000-barrels-oil-north-dakota-n1074991

[Sbane]

As a method of transporting oil and gas, pipelines are the most ecologically sound.

Oh wow, do you really think this makes your case? You got any actual data to back it up or just a couple more cherry picked photos?

While the right is out of touch with reality on most issues, this is one where the left is completely out of touch with reality.

What a strangely angry response to a simple piece of evidence that this specific oil pipeline that we are discussing has already inflicted serious damage to a local ecosystem.

I'll admit that I initially provided zero context for the photo, but it comes as no surprise that this is the first time many of you are seeing it.  It was big news at the time to anybody who gave a sh**t.

You posted this picture in response to a factual statement by True Federalist. If you disagree with his assertion that pipelines are the most ecologically sound way to move oil, prove it. This picture is certainly not proof. Train crashes happen. Truck accidents definitely happen. Pipelines are the best way to move oil and gas. If oil and gas is extracted from the earth, we need pipelines to move it.

Of course, the real goal is to stop oil and gas production and going after pipelines is just an assbackwards way of going about it. Invent technologies that make oil and gas obsolete if that is your true goal. Of course that is much harder to do than standing in front of a pipeline construction site and screaming your lungs out.

[2952-0-0]

Jason Kenney is hinting that he will sue the Biden Administration to make the project go through. The problem is:

https://twitter.com/kbiezenbos/status/1351220706344906761

This day was certain since last November, and if Kenney had done any homework, he will have already consulted lawyers for a legal strategy. The fact that he didn't indicates his statement is just Trump-style gaslighting.

[It’s so Joever]

$2.75 at Sheetz today.  $5 to follow in the not so distant future.

I mean...gas prices will rise once everyone stops working from home (many professionals still are)
It’s basic supply and demand, this is unit one for f**ks sake.

[Ljube]

There you go. A totally crazy decision on the first day. Who knows how many more crazy decisions of this kind will hit us by January 2025.

Definitely a strong campaign point in 2022.

Yes, THIS totally counts as a president making a "crazy" decision. So glad you're skilled at seeing what a president acts "crazy".

Leaving aside the rank hypocrisy, would you care to educate the rest of us as to why showing an ounce of regard for the environment over the profits of energy companies is somehow "crazy"?

Because it's a job killing decision in the middle of an economic crisis.
The environmental impact of that pipeline is negligible.

It seems to me that it's just a political issue. Throwing a bone to his radical base.


Are you a member of Biden's radical base, Badger?

[It’s so Joever]

There you go. A totally crazy decision on the first day. Who knows how many more crazy decisions of this kind will hit us by January 2025.

Definitely a strong campaign point in 2022.

Yes, THIS totally counts as a president making a "crazy" decision. So glad you're skilled at seeing what a president acts "crazy".

Leaving aside the rank hypocrisy, would you care to educate the rest of us as to why showing an ounce of regard for the environment over the profits of energy companies is somehow "crazy"?

Because it's a job killing decision in the middle of an economic crisis.
The environmental impact of that pipeline is negligible.

It seems to me that it's just a political issue. Throwing a bone to his radical base.


Are you a member of Biden's radical base, Badger?

First of all, I didn’t know Kelly Loeffler posted on here.

How do you feel after being destroyed by radical liberal Raphael Warnock?

Anyways, the main concerns are again with the lack of Native acceptance of the current routing.

[Mike Thick]

Man. Reading this thread feels like I stepped through a portal into 2015 Atlas

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Reminder: pipelines bring down the cost of natural gas, which in turn lowers natural gas costs for heaters used by consumers. This directly helps the working class especially.

[Joe Republic]

You posted this picture in response to a factual statement by True Federalist. If you disagree with his assertion that pipelines are the most ecologically sound way to move oil, prove it. This picture is certainly not proof. Train crashes happen. Truck accidents definitely happen. Pipelines are the best way to move oil and gas. If oil and gas is extracted from the earth, we need pipelines to move it.

I don't care what the "most ecologically sound" method of moving oil is, frankly.  As UncleSam aptly put it earlier in this thread, oil pipelines being the safest method of transport is the same as saying that hypodermic needles are the safest way to take heroin.

But moreover, imagine casually defending the relative safety of pipelines in a thread dedicated to discussing a specific pipeline that has already spilled hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil into the ecosystem.

Of course, the real goal is to stop oil and gas production

Agreed.

and going after pipelines is just an assbackwards way of going about it. Invent technologies that make oil and gas obsolete if that is your true goal. Of course that is much harder to do than standing in front of a pipeline construction site and screaming your lungs out.

You can do both, you know.  I've invested what little I can into green-energy research, and also donated some supplies to the Standing Rock community during the midst of the assault on their reservation in late 2016.

[Brittain33]

Reminder: pipelines bring down the cost of natural gas, which in turn lowers natural gas costs for heaters used by consumers. This directly helps the working class especially.

What does Keystone XL have to do with natural gas? It’s an oil pipeline. Besides, natural gas has gotten so inexpensive that it’s making fracking uneconomical for many companies.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Reminder: pipelines bring down the cost of natural gas, which in turn lowers natural gas costs for heaters used by consumers. This directly helps the working class especially.

What does Keystone XL have to do with natural gas? It’s an oil pipeline. Besides, natural gas has gotten so inexpensive that it’s making fracking uneconomical for many companies.

I was being generally critical of the anti-pipeline arguments of the left. Keystone, while still valuable in the space I was speaking, does so only indirectly (not that it takes away from that).

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

As a method of transporting oil and gas, pipelines are the most ecologically sound.

Oh wow, do you really think this makes your case? You got any actual data to back it up or just a couple more cherry picked photos?

While the right is out of touch with reality on most issues, this is one where the left is completely out of touch with reality.

What a strangely angry response to a simple piece of evidence that this specific oil pipeline that we are discussing has already inflicted serious damage to a local ecosystem.

I'll admit that I initially provided zero context for the photo, but it comes as no surprise that this is the first time many of you are seeing it.  It was big news at the time to anybody who gave a sh**t.

No method of transporting oil will be without risk, and I never claimed that. Compared to other methods of transporting oil, they've generally been the lowest risk option and they definitely are the most energy-efficient method, which given how we get a lot of our energy, means transporting by pipeline contributes the least to climate change.  The whole eco-Luddite argument for not building pipelines is that if we don't build them, the oil won't be used.  In general, that's simply not true. About the one pipeline that could be said of is the Alaska Pipeline, because there weren't already existing alternatives to transport oil from the North Slope.