WaPo: The Republican Party's base has an "ugly authoritarian core"

[John Dule]

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.

This is the point. A few overzealous Democratic mayors who getting off on a COVID power trip is insignificant compared to the crimes Trump has committed. I'm not saying libertarians have to vote for Democrats, but I definitely won't entertain the idea that a self-professed "principled libertarian" could vote for Trump. It's absurd and certainly not within the realm of possibility.

[Calthrina950]

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.

This is the point. A few overzealous Democratic mayors who getting off on a COVID power trip is insignificant compared to the crimes Trump has committed. I'm not saying libertarians have to vote for Democrats, but I definitely won't entertain the idea that a self-professed "principled libertarian" could vote for Trump. It's absurd and certainly not within the realm of possibility.

So are you saying that someone who votes for Trump and says they are a libertarian is not an "actual" libertarian? That's an interesting viewpoint. But I will say that it is unfortunate how many in the Republican base have come to view opposition to Trump as being equivalent to "RINOism", or that one who does not support Trump is automatically a leftist. I've seen that insinuation made here and elsewhere from time to time.

[Coolface Sock #42069]

I have almost as much in common politically with a Berniecrat as I do with the type of people mentioned in the article. I know neither really holds the Constitution in higher regard than their policy preferences, but at least Berniecrats do vote based on legitimate policy preferences and not desire for an authoritarian dictatorship.

[ProgressiveModerate]

If our political alignment actually shapes up to be purely competent vs incompetence, that's really sad and honestly scary.

[John Dule]

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.

This is the point. A few overzealous Democratic mayors who getting off on a COVID power trip is insignificant compared to the crimes Trump has committed. I'm not saying libertarians have to vote for Democrats, but I definitely won't entertain the idea that a self-professed "principled libertarian" could vote for Trump. It's absurd and certainly not within the realm of possibility.

So are you saying that someone who votes for Trump and says they are a libertarian is not an "actual" libertarian? That's an interesting viewpoint. But I will say that it is unfortunate how many in the Republican base have come to view opposition to Trump as being equivalent to "RINOism", or that one who does not support Trump is automatically a leftist. I've seen that insinuation made here and elsewhere from time to time.

I don't like playing No True Scotsman with libertarianism, because there is a lot of room for disagreement under the ideology's umbrella. Nevertheless, I would view a self-professed "libertarian" who voted for Trump with the same amount of suspicion as a self-professed "capitalist" who voted for Jeremy Corbyn.

[Sopranos Republican]

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.

This is the point. A few overzealous Democratic mayors who getting off on a COVID power trip is insignificant compared to the crimes Trump has committed. I'm not saying libertarians have to vote for Democrats, but I definitely won't entertain the idea that a self-professed "principled libertarian" could vote for Trump. It's absurd and certainly not within the realm of possibility.

I’ve had my fair share of arguments with friends over some of the points you are making. While I agree that some of the COVID restrictions are laughably over the top (i.e. one example where California was encouraging people to piss outside during Thanksgiving Dinner) I find it amazing that a group of people could believe that being told they can’t eat inside a Red Robin for a few months is a worse violation of their civil liberties than the President of the United States trying to disenfranchise millions of people in battleground states, or having people gassed for protesting outside of the White House, while just a few months later watching a literal armed mob of his supporters walk into the Capitol like it’s a Black Friday sale at Best Buy.

[Badger]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

So let me get this straight: We have a president who orchestrated a (failed) fascist coup by marching his violent inbred supporters to the Capitol in order to murder and kidnap our elected representatives. He has expressed a willingness to quash free speech, a genuine hatred for nonwhite people, and has routinely attempted to undermine our democratic processes and institutions via dictatorial fiat. He has appointed activist right-wing judges who will attempt to eliminate abortion rights, and he used his position as president to embezzle taxpayer dollars. He used US aid-- which was approved by congress-- to extort a foreign leader into participating in a smear campaign against his political opponent. He gassed peaceful protesters and has turned a blind eye to human rights violations worldwide, including the Uyghur concentration camps and the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. He has used the pardoning power to pardon dozens of people implicated in his scandals and schemes, including a disgraced US general who has publicly called for "suspending the Constitution" in order to turn this country into a dictatorship.

And your response to all of this is to say "But what about muh restaurants? Why can't I sit indoors and cough on other people in peace?"

LOL, just freaking LOL.

I've made clear my views about what happened at the Capitol last week, and Trump's role in it, but I'm surprised you would say something like this. The irony is that you seem to be justifying ElectionGuy's criticism of you on this point. I don't think it's fair to boil down the anti-lockdown argument in such a form, considering that many small business officers have experienced genuine financial damage from the impacts of the various lockdowns over the past years. Not all of those who are against lockdowns hold such a position out of personal selfishness.

JD's very astute point was not that one couldn't validly object to aggressive lockdown policies. Rather, his very accurate criticism is that any libertarian, party purportedly founded on the basis of Liberty itself, to consider such policies even remotely in the same universe has Trump's authoritarianism as a danger to " Liberty" is Ludacris.

It's kind of additional evidence the libertarian party is a fanatic anti government regulation party, but push comes to shove their okay with a little like fascism on the side to get their way.

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.

Given his rationality, I suspect John d o l e is a lot more of a small L libertarian than an LP libertarian than he might like to admit.

[Calthrina950]

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.

This is the point. A few overzealous Democratic mayors who getting off on a COVID power trip is insignificant compared to the crimes Trump has committed. I'm not saying libertarians have to vote for Democrats, but I definitely won't entertain the idea that a self-professed "principled libertarian" could vote for Trump. It's absurd and certainly not within the realm of possibility.

So are you saying that someone who votes for Trump and says they are a libertarian is not an "actual" libertarian? That's an interesting viewpoint. But I will say that it is unfortunate how many in the Republican base have come to view opposition to Trump as being equivalent to "RINOism", or that one who does not support Trump is automatically a leftist. I've seen that insinuation made here and elsewhere from time to time.

I don't like playing No True Scotsman with libertarianism, because there is a lot of room for disagreement under the ideology's umbrella. Nevertheless, I would view a self-professed "libertarian" who voted for Trump with the same amount of suspicion as a self-professed "capitalist" who voted for Jeremy Corbyn.

I understand what you're saying now. As I indicated above, I believe that one can reliably possess a conservative or a libertarian philosophy without being devoted to Trump or to his acolytes.