DC statehood Megathread (pg 33 - Manchin questioning constitutionality)

[TheReckoning]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

"People I don't like should be disenfranchised because reasons"

How is PR disenfranchised? They have their own government. They aren’t drafted. They don’t pay federal taxes.

So, because you believe that they have X benefits without Y costs, that means they aren't disenfranchised? I'm pretty sure that our federal government is also their federal government; they are also citizens of this country. As a citizen, I'd be pretty pissed off not being able to have a say in what my federal government does just because a certain political party would be negatively impacted by my proposed state's ability to express our will and exert democratic influence on our shared federal government.

I believe you are grossly overestimating the actual impact the federal government has on Puerto Rico. It’s largely autonomous.

[7,052,770]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

There are so many counterexamples of multilingual countries.

Outrageously false statement. I support representation of ALL Americans, even if I don't like the way they're going to vote. If Puerto Rico sends Republicans to the Senate, which they very well might, that's fine. They have every right to do so. If America is 52% Republican, 48% Democrat, then ideally the Senate would be that way too while my side figures out how to appeal to more people. Politics is NOT a game.

[JA]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

"People I don't like should be disenfranchised because reasons"

How is PR disenfranchised? They have their own government. They aren’t drafted. They don’t pay federal taxes.

So, because you believe that they have X benefits without Y costs, that means they aren't disenfranchised? I'm pretty sure that our federal government is also their federal government; they are also citizens of this country. As a citizen, I'd be pretty pissed off not being able to have a say in what my federal government does just because a certain political party would be negatively impacted by my proposed state's ability to express our will and exert democratic influence on our shared federal government.

I believe you are grossly overestimating the actual impact the federal government has on Puerto Rico. It’s largely autonomous.

I don't particularly care to what extent the federal government impacts Puerto Rico (which isn't negligible). That's a territory with millions of people being denied the right to participate in the decision making of their federal government; in what way is that not wrong?

[TheReckoning]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

There are so many counterexamples of multilingual countries.

Outrageously false statement. I support representation of ALL Americans, even if I don't like the way they're going to vote. If Puerto Rico sends Republicans to the Senate, which they very well might, that's fine. They have every right to do so. If America is 52% Republican, 48% Democrat, then ideally the Senate would be that way too while my side figures out how to appeal to more people. Politics is NOT a game.

You may say that, and it may even be true. But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

[John Dule]

Let me just state for the record that I support Puerto Rican statehood because I am an imperialist, not because I'm a Democrat.

[7,052,770]

But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

What compromise is even out there? DC gets to be a state in even months but not odd ones? Anything less than the current 50 states keeps the Americans who live there second-class citizens.

I hate it when states like Texas elect treasonous morons like Ted Cruz to the Senate, but I still support the right of Americans who live in Texas to elect people to Congress to represent them, just as I support that right for Americans who live in DC, Puerto Rico, or any other territory that has affirmatively shown in wants statehood. If they want to elect someone I don't like, I'll deal with it.

On this issue, Democrats legitimately have the moral high ground, while any Republican who opposes it is being nakedly partisan. Thankfully at least DC will be settled in a few weeks.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

There are so many counterexamples of multilingual countries.

Outrageously false statement. I support representation of ALL Americans, even if I don't like the way they're going to vote. If Puerto Rico sends Republicans to the Senate, which they very well might, that's fine. They have every right to do so. If America is 52% Republican, 48% Democrat, then ideally the Senate would be that way too while my side figures out how to appeal to more people. Politics is NOT a game.

Can confirm this is Harry's stance on this matter.

[JA]

Maybe we could declare the entire island of Puerto Rico the US capitol and give the District of Columbia to Delaware, since they both begin with the letter D.

[TheReckoning]

But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

What compromise is even out there? DC gets to be a state in even months but not odd ones? Anything less than the current 50 states keeps the Americans who live there second-class citizens.

I hate it when states like Texas elect treasonous morons like Ted Cruz to the Senate, but I still support the right of Americans who live in Texas to elect people to Congress to represent them, just as I support that right for Americans who live in DC, Puerto Rico, or any other territory that has affirmatively shown in wants statehood. If they want to elect someone I don't like, I'll deal with it.

On this issue, Democrats legitimately have the moral high ground, while any Republican who opposes it is being nakedly partisan. Thankfully at least DC will be settled in a few weeks.

Would you support statehood for Wake Island, with its population of 100 residents?

[7,052,770]

I'll do one further: Admit 3 states as a package deal: Douglass (D), Marianas/Guam (R-ish), Puerto Rico (swing/D-ish?). There's a good chance that the parties can split 3-3 in the Senate, and if they don't, so be it. We don't really know for sure how the non-DC territories will vote when they know it's for voting representation, just like 1950s Congress whiffed on their predictions for both Hawaii and Alaska.

[7,052,770]

But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

What compromise is even out there? DC gets to be a state in even months but not odd ones? Anything less than the current 50 states keeps the Americans who live there second-class citizens.

I hate it when states like Texas elect treasonous morons like Ted Cruz to the Senate, but I still support the right of Americans who live in Texas to elect people to Congress to represent them, just as I support that right for Americans who live in DC, Puerto Rico, or any other territory that has affirmatively shown in wants statehood. If they want to elect someone I don't like, I'll deal with it.

On this issue, Democrats legitimately have the moral high ground, while any Republican who opposes it is being nakedly partisan. Thankfully at least DC will be settled in a few weeks.

Would you support statehood for Wake Island, with its population of 100 residents?

Wake Island is uninhabited aside from military, so it's a moot point. However, I did discuss statehood for the Virgin Islands (population 100,000) in another thread, and came to the conclusion that it's small, but that's not a good enough reason to keep it out of statehood if it wants it.

After all, why is OK for Wyoming to be a state at 1.5% the population of California, but not OK for a state to be 18% of Wyoming's population?

If we stick to the organized territories, we could admit Douglass, Puerto Rico, Marianas, and the Virgin Islands and cap out at 54 states unless someone wants annexation or something. I left out American Samoa (57,000), because I just don't really know what to do with them, and they don't appear to really want statehood anyway because the chiefs would have to give up their special hereditary powers.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

"People I don't like should be disenfranchised because reasons"

How is PR disenfranchised? They have their own government. They aren’t drafted. They don’t pay federal taxes.

So I assume you are against the idea of the state of Rhode Island because it is basically one city and surrounding suburbs/exurbs?

I also assume you are against Wyoming because it doesn’t have enough people, yes?

.

We always get 1 person in these Statehood threads that is a naysayer on Statehood the only way is to have a vote on this

[Crumpets]

f r a c t a l   v i r g i n i a s

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The Rs already didn't play by the rules when they blocked Merrick Garland, it's now the D's turn to start stacking Crts. We have the majority and we don't want to lose it again in 2023, to give obstructionists Mcconnell another chance at Majority

[rhg2052]

Well why stop there? I say we also remove statehood from the rest of the states.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No, Rubio is open to adding PR, it's clear, that should be the first state up. PR will never join DC as a Union

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Democrats agree to concede DC statehood and agree to hold a proper referendum in Puerto Rico regarding statehood. In exchange, Wyoming gets stripped of its status as a state and reverts to a federal territory until it's population matches that of Washington DC so both of them can be reintroduced together back into the union.

Furthermore the federal goverment will provide grants to those living in high density communities to move to Wyoming in order to help increase it's population to the point it meets the requirement to become a state.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Democrats agree to concede DC statehood and agree to hold a proper referendum in Puerto Rico regarding statehood. In exchange, Wyoming gets stripped of its status as a state and reverts to a federal territory until it's population matches that of Washington DC so both of them can be reintroduced together back into the union.

Furthermore the federal goverment will provide grants to those living in high density communities to move to Wyoming in order to help increase it's population to the point it meets the requirement to become a state.

Constitution says a state regardless of it's population gets 2 Senators

[TheReckoning]

There’s been a lot of talk about adding these states to the Union, on this forum and elsewhere, and with Democrats controlling all 3 branches, its seeming more possible than ever.

But it’s clear most Republicans think of this as being a political move to expand Democrats control over the senate, and increase their chances in the EC.

Is it possible that next time the Republicans are in charge, they could create new states as well to expand their power? I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from making every single Oklahoma County a new state, technically.

All hell could break loose.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Rs blocked Garland, they can't talk about new states being added and stacking the Crts

[GoTfan]

There’s been a lot of talk about adding these states to the Union, on this forum and elsewhere, and with Democrats controlling all 3 branches, its seeming more possible than ever.

But it’s clear most Republicans think of this as being a political move to expand Democrats control over the senate, and increase their chances in the EC.

Is it possible that next time the Republicans are in charge, they could create new states as well to expand their power? I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from making every single Oklahoma County and new state, technically.

All hell could break loose.

Oklahoma has people who can vote on their constituents' behalf. DC and PR do not.

[GeneralMacArthur]

No.  DC and Puerto Rico have been talked about as potential states for decades.  There are no other territories for which this is the case.  Nobody has ever talked about making American Samoa a state.  There has never been any serious attempt to break up California or Texas or whatever.

These things don't just come out of the blue.  DC/PR statehood has been gaining momentum for a very long time.  If Republicans want to split Texas into two states or something, they're welcome to put in the effort spending a decade convincing the entire country that it's a good idea.

I don't see how anyone can credibly claim that DC or PR statehood is purely political.  Puerto Rico is millions of people totally dependent on the United States but totally forgotten about, and abandoned during Hurricane Maria.  That's an extremely good reason to become a state and get proper representation and treatment.  That's also a totally unique situation.  If we acquire Greenland or some other large territory, we may also start talking about a 53rd state.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Please split California in half.

Just so long as you guys have to keep Newsom.

Deal. You can have Kevin McCarthy.

Bakersfield goes with NorCal. Sorry, the Tehachapis are the border.

[John Dule]

Please split California in half.

Just so long as you guys have to keep Newsom.

Deal. You can have Kevin McCarthy.

Bakersfield goes with NorCal. Sorry, the Tehachapis are the border.

Bulldinky. This should be the map:



Or if you want more states, this:

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Cali isn't being broken up into 4 states