Should Iraq be divded in a manner similar to Bosnia and Herzegovina?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Joe Biden wrote an editorial advocating this.

[??????????]

Yes, sounds like a decent idea.

[MasterJedi]

I voted No but it really depends on what happens. It would probably create more problems than there are now though.

[Akno21]

Iraq as we know it was drawn by diplomats with a ruler anyway. I don't see why we need to keep it together to honor only about 80 years of history.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Use Iraq as a nuclear waste testing ground

[Flying Dog]

Its better than stay th course

[John Dibble]

I'm pretty sure there are some issues with it. For instance the Kurds would get their own area, which IIRC Turkey isn't a fan of. I think a better strategy would be to divide it up into states under a federal government with limited powers - you know, how our country used to be.

[muon2]

Akno21 hit on the key historical point. Iaq is an artifical construct of three Ottoman provinces placed together for British administration. Today the question becomes how to balance the weight of history prior to the creation of Iraq compared to the sensitivities of the neighboring states. Turkey woories about a Kurdish state, and the Saudis and Israelis both worry about an overwhelmingly Shiite state.

Personally I think the US overweighted the neighbors' views compared to the internal dynamics at the immediate conclusion of the 2003 offensive. Efforts directed at a looser federation, like in Bosnia, might have provided a better balance between internal needs and regional stability.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm pretty sure there are some issues with it. For instance the Kurds would get their own area, which IIRC Turkey isn't a fan of.

Are you aware of the Bosnia setup? It was designed specifically to put an end to fighting over issues such as this, and since 1995 it has worked well.

[opebo]

No, it would be better to reinstate Saddam with apologies and reparations.

[MaC]

Yes, I like Biden's idea.

[minionofmidas]

A Bosnian setup, eh? Only two states for the three groups - given the political alignments right now I suppose that means a Sunni Arab state and a Kurdish-Shi'ite federation. Borders made tenable by years of ethnic cleansing... this will be necessary around Kirkuk and Nineveh and in Baghdad... and then the whole thing becomes de facto two colonies of the European Union, under European military occupation and using the Euro?

No thanks, I won't bite.

[Olin D. Johnston]

It should be asked: was destabilising Iraq the intention all along?

Perhaps it's a little cynical, but I'd like to take the opportunity to point out that pluralistic societies tend to invite conflict unless there is an repressive authoritarian regime to keep a lid on things, or one of the groups is prepared to play the role of doormat (like Whites in the West).

Hopefully Iraq breaks up and the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds get their own homelands. That's what should have happened all along anyway.

[MODU]

While I think it might help things out in some aspects, I would have to say no.  A majority of the problems in the Middle East stem from Europe creating artificial boundries, dividing and grouping numerous ethic regions and forcing them to come together in artificial countries. 

[MasterJedi]

I'm pretty sure there are some issues with it. For instance the Kurds would get their own area, which IIRC Turkey isn't a fan of.

Are you aware of the Bosnia setup? It was designed specifically to put an end to fighting over issues such as this, and since 1995 it has worked well.

Bosnia is not Iraq. If we did the same thing in Iraq other countries are liable to annex and attack these new countries which wouldn't be to our or their benefit.

[Colin]

I'm pretty sure there are some issues with it. For instance the Kurds would get their own area, which IIRC Turkey isn't a fan of.

Are you aware of the Bosnia setup? It was designed specifically to put an end to fighting over issues such as this, and since 1995 it has worked well.

Well Dibble is right. Turkey has said that any sort of autonomy, even of a de facto sort like Bosnia and the Serb Republic, would merit an invasion of the North to secure the area and to make sure a Kurdish state doesn't develop, IIRC. If there is no central government and the Kurds get a semi-independent state then I would expect some sort of reaction from the Turks.

[Flying Dog]

Well, any plan is better than the one we have now. Oh wait, we dont have a plain, do we?  Atleast Biden has the backbone to stand up and propose a paln. So now republicans cant say we dont have a plan.

[MODU]

Well, any plan is better than the one we have now. Oh wait, we dont have a plain, do we?  Atleast Biden has the backbone to stand up and propose a paln. So now republicans cant say we dont have a plan.

hahaha . . . true enough, but that isn't a plan to "get out."  That's just a plan to create more problems. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm pretty sure there are some issues with it. For instance the Kurds would get their own area, which IIRC Turkey isn't a fan of.

Are you aware of the Bosnia setup? It was designed specifically to put an end to fighting over issues such as this, and since 1995 it has worked well.

Well Dibble is right. Turkey has said that any sort of autonomy, even of a de facto sort like Bosnia and the Serb Republic, would merit an invasion of the North to secure the area and to make sure a Kurdish state doesn't develop, IIRC. If there is no central government and the Kurds get a semi-independent state then I would expect some sort of reaction from the Turks.

Kurdistan has had such autonomy since 1991.

[Colin]

I'm pretty sure there are some issues with it. For instance the Kurds would get their own area, which IIRC Turkey isn't a fan of.

Are you aware of the Bosnia setup? It was designed specifically to put an end to fighting over issues such as this, and since 1995 it has worked well.

Well Dibble is right. Turkey has said that any sort of autonomy, even of a de facto sort like Bosnia and the Serb Republic, would merit an invasion of the North to secure the area and to make sure a Kurdish state doesn't develop, IIRC. If there is no central government and the Kurds get a semi-independent state then I would expect some sort of reaction from the Turks.

Kurdistan has had such autonomy since 1991.

Yeah but Turkey would look at any further autonomy, how should I put this, distastefully. They've said so themselves that any attempt to give more autonomy to Kurdistan or to begin the path of Kurdish independence would lead to Turkish involvement in Northern Iraq.

[Flying Dog]

Turkey had a couple of their troops killed by Kurdish Gurillas. They told the U.S. to do something or they will themselves.

[GOP = Terrorists]

I advocated this as the only possible result of the war in Iraq before we went in.  I said it would result in lots of blood shed to make happen.  Kirkuk for example will be a blood bath.  But these three peoples will never have a single peaceful democratic state.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Turkey had a couple of their troops killed by Kurdish Gurillas. They told the U.S. to do something or they will themselves.

That's the PKK. They've been fighting Turkey for years.

[Jacobtm]

Does no one read what they're talking about?

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10569/

Biden's plan wasn't to create 3 new states, it was this:

"...Establish three largely autonomous regions with a viable central government in Baghdad. The Kurdish, Sunni and Shiite regions would each be responsible for their own domestic laws, administration and internal security. The central government would control border defense, foreign affairs and oil revenues. Baghdad would become a federal zone, while densely populated areas of mixed populations would receive both multisectarian and international police protection."

That sounds like a much better plan than what we're doing now.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Does no one read what they're talking about?

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10569/

Biden's plan wasn't to create 3 new states, it was this:

"...Establish three largely autonomous regions with a viable central government in Baghdad. The Kurdish, Sunni and Shiite regions would each be responsible for their own domestic laws, administration and internal security. The central government would control border defense, foreign affairs and oil revenues. Baghdad would become a federal zone, while densely populated areas of mixed populations would receive both multisectarian and international police protection."

That sounds like a much better plan than what we're doing now.

Yes, that is what I meant and that is the arrangement in Bosnia (except its 2 regions there + a seperate city)