How to invoke the 14th amendment's section on insurrection?
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  How to invoke the 14th amendment's section on insurrection?
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Author Topic: How to invoke the 14th amendment's section on insurrection?  (Read 458 times)
Blue3
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« on: January 12, 2021, 12:58:30 AM »

14th amendment, section 3:

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."


So I know it takes 2/3 from each chamber of Congress to remove the disability from someone who the 14th amendment was invoked against.

But it doesn't seem to say what it takes to invoke these charges in the first place. Is it 2/3 of each chamber of Congress? Simple majorities? Or just a conviction of insurrection or rebellion in a federal court, no act of Congress needed? How was it applied in Civil War/ Reconstruction times, and are we just limited to those ways or is there a broader way (such as conviction in a federal court, if that's not how it was done then) that it can be invoked?
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2021, 01:45:10 AM »

The one time it was previously invoked in such a manner as being proposed today was against Victor Berger in 1919, when Congress voted to refuse to seat him on that basis after he'd been convicted of violating the Espionage Act, so the one precedent on the books of this having occurred would seem to dictate that it can be invoked merely through Congress' power to determine their own membership. At the same time, they also determined that a criminal conviction wouldn't have been necessary for them to invoke it if they so chose, so all it'd really take is a simple majority of Congress saying that somebody has aided an insurrection, no formal conviction or anything similar required.
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LtNOWIS
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2021, 02:51:38 AM »

Could an election opponent sue to kick someone off the ballot, alleging that they were constitutionally ineligible for office?
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satsuma
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2021, 11:08:49 PM »

Victor Berger shouldn't have been denied that seat. Some of the laws passed in 1917 violated 1A by interpreting political debate as a crime. Berger was eventually let into Congress after having his Espionage Act overturned in 1921 Supreme Court case Berger v. United States and winning the 1922 election. I'd agree that perhaps a criminal conviction isn't necessary, but to convince everyone involved that Congress is not just being nakedly political in its exclusions of elected representatives, it might help if there were some criminal case being considered or if it were just generally known that they'd rebelled against the United States.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 08:55:22 AM »

Could an election opponent sue to kick someone off the ballot, alleging that they were constitutionally ineligible for office?

Not at present.

Potentially, that could be one avenue authorized under Section 5 of that amendment.
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