What if the coup had achieved its objectives?

[compucomp]

I had thought that if the coup had fulfilled its objectives, then American democracy would have been overthrown, Trump would have been "re-elected for his second term" or declared himself dictator, civil war might ensure, etc. But I've been changing my mind on this aspect. The above still would have been a plausible outcome, but now I think the end result would have been different and the coup ultimately still would have failed.

Let's say that the MAGA coup's objective was to execute Pence, Schumer, and Pelosi, then execute some hated Congresspeople (like AOC, Omar, Kinzinger, Romney, Sanders, Warren, etc), then have the joint session continue under their coercion, reject all of Biden's electors, and proclaim Trump the winner. That definitely would have been a big success for them, but now I don't think it would have returned Trump to power. The coup had two huge flaws in that respect; they didn't target Joe Biden and thus could not fully decapitate the opposition, and they emphatically did not have the support of the military or National Guard. I think the most likely result would have been that on Wednesday Biden immediately gathers the support of military and National Guard, then goes on TV in the late afternoon and declares that Trump has committed treason and must be removed immediately from power. Then the MD/VA/DC National Guard and available active duty forces march on Washington, lock down the White House, and capture Trump. Joe Biden is declared president with immediate effect.

What do we think? There definitely could have been other outcomes as well, and this may well not have been the end of the story, I could see a MAGA insurgency being triggered by this event.

[Catalunya]

I had thought that if the coup had fulfilled its objectives, then American democracy would have been overthrown, Trump would have been "re-elected for his second term" or declared himself dictator, civil war might ensure, etc. But I've been changing my mind on this aspect. The above still would have been a plausible outcome, but now I think the end result would have been different and the coup ultimately still would have failed.

Let's say that the MAGA coup's objective was to execute Pence, Schumer, and Pelosi, then execute some hated Congresspeople (like AOC, Omar, Kinzinger, Romney, Sanders, Warren, etc), then have the joint session continue under their coercion, reject all of Biden's electors, and proclaim Trump the winner. That definitely would have been a big success for them, but now I don't think it would have returned Trump to power. The coup had two huge flaws in that respect; they didn't target Joe Biden and thus could not fully decapitate the opposition, and they emphatically did not have the support of the military or National Guard. I think the most likely result would have been that on Wednesday Biden immediately gathers the support of military and National Guard, then goes on TV in the late afternoon and declares that Trump has committed treason and must be removed immediately from power. Then the MD/VA/DC National Guard and available active duty forces march on Washington, lock down the White House, and capture Trump. Joe Biden is declared president with immediate effect.

What do we think? There definitely could have been other outcomes as well, and this may well not have been the end of the story, I could see a MAGA insurgency being triggered by this event.

Pence and McConell would also definitely be targeted by the coupists. Also the military would start shooting as soon as they found out that politicians were killed. Biden would probably be made Speaker and than immediately President with the Republican brand dead for at least a generation along with parts of the leadership of both parties.

[beaver2.0]

By their objectives I assume you mean overrunning the capitol, executing a few dozen people (Pelosi, Pence, Schumer?) and causing even more damage.  I don't think this would be a meaningful victory and they would certainly not have control over the state.

I think it would end with an even bigger backlash against Trump and Trumpites and a Patriot Act 2.0 that would prohibit them from gathering and organizing.  The longer this had gone on and more damage it had caused the more Republicans would have turned against it.  We saw support for objecting to electoral slates go down when these rioters had made it into the building.  If they had killed a member of Congress, I imagine you could get even more Republicans on board with whatever Biden decided to push.

[Agonized-Statism]

It couldn't have unless they had the serious support of some or all of the military, which is content with the status quo. Had it been that serious, something complex like the Yugoslav Wars would have resulted. The original cause for conflict- competing pro-Trump and anti-Trump civilian governments- would probably be gone after a year, and it would just be confused fighting for confused fighting's sake.

Of course they didn't have much internal support, so if the stormers had kidnapped or killed some officials, the military would be dispatched and pretty quickly end it. The government would crack down much harder and a lot of presidential power would be surrendered to congress, the military, et. al. to prevent something like that from happening again.

[2952-0-0]

Even if it was just the National Guard staging a coup against Trump and immediately retreating once Biden is sworn in, the damage to the political system would be permanent. ¿Se habla español?

[It's Perro Sanxe wot won it]

Susan Collins would have managed to escape and express her extreme concern at the situation.

On a more serious note, as you said, the coup would’ve been stopped with relative ease by the military. The top brass, as well as the overwhelming majority of military personnel, remains loyal to the republic and stops the violent takeover of the U.S. government. Donald Trump and a bunch of prominent leaders of his movement, along with the coup perpetrators on the ground, are put on trial for treason and MAGA is thrown into the dustbin of history.

[Ljube]

I had thought that if the coup had fulfilled its objectives, then American democracy would have been overthrown, Trump would have been "re-elected for his second term" or declared himself dictator, civil war might ensure, etc. But I've been changing my mind on this aspect. The above still would have been a plausible outcome, but now I think the end result would have been different and the coup ultimately still would have failed.

Let's say that the MAGA coup's objective was to execute Pence, Schumer, and Pelosi, then execute some hated Congresspeople (like AOC, Omar, Kinzinger, Romney, Sanders, Warren, etc), then have the joint session continue under their coercion, reject all of Biden's electors, and proclaim Trump the winner. That definitely would have been a big success for them, but now I don't think it would have returned Trump to power. The coup had two huge flaws in that respect; they didn't target Joe Biden and thus could not fully decapitate the opposition, and they emphatically did not have the support of the military or National Guard. I think the most likely result would have been that on Wednesday Biden immediately gathers the support of military and National Guard, then goes on TV in the late afternoon and declares that Trump has committed treason and must be removed immediately from power. Then the MD/VA/DC National Guard and available active duty forces march on Washington, lock down the White House, and capture Trump. Joe Biden is declared president with immediate effect.

What do we think? There definitely could have been other outcomes as well, and this may well not have been the end of the story, I could see a MAGA insurgency being triggered by this event.

The scenario you describe is a military coup and I don't think it could have happened. A far more likely outcome would have been a second impeachment and removal of Trump as soon as his MAGA warriors left the Capitol followed by his arrest and trial for treason.

[Del Tachi]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

[lfromnj]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

They killed Officer Sicknick.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

They killed Officer Sicknick.

They were also chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and constructed a makeshift gallows, so the idea that it can just be assumed they would have stayed peaceful is absurd, and classic Del Tachi far-right-coddling.

[beaver2.0]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

There were more than a few threats (https://www.adl.org/blog/extremists-and-mainstream-trump-supporters-plan-to-protest-congressional-certification-of) (https://www.g4s.com/en-us/-/media/g4s/usa/files/whitepapers/1_-_g4s_crs_-_intelligence_assessment_jan_2021_washington_dc_-_210104.ashx?la=en&hash=86001B27FAEA725CDD73605B088933C8) People showed up with zipties.  What were those for?  I'm assuming not ziptie parties in the Capitol.  If they had somehow surrounded the lawmakers I doubt every single person, or even a majority, would have been involved with killing lawmakers but with the multitude of threats made out there, I think it is a distinct possibility there was representation from the most extreme elements and they would have taken action.  And yes, they did kill someone along the way.

[Badger]

Correct answer? Bootlicking goose-stepping fascist apologist would still be making excuses and denying Trump or the Republican Party had responsibilities and inciting us. Del taco is of course example a.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

I mean just because the were chanting hang Mike pence, showed up with zip ties, and erected gallows doesn’t mean that they were there to do that.

They were just Patriots and things got out of hand!


Also, 72 hours. That’s how long it took for a blue avatar to outright defend treason.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Also, 72 hours. That’s how long it took for a blue avatar to outright defend treason.

I mean, is it really shocking that an R-MS avatar is downplaying or excusing an attempt at an old-fashioned lynching?

[Del Tachi]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

They killed Officer Sicknick.

They were also chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and constructed a makeshift gallows, so the idea that it can just be assumed they would have stayed peaceful is absurd, and classic Del Tachi far-right-coddling.

Haven’t antifa and BLM protesters done things like burn Trump in effigy?  Maxine Waters told supporters to “knock off” Trump and Pence?  even Hollywood been complicit when celebs say Trump should be killed?  At any rate, what did you have to say about all the left wing demonstrations that descended into destruction and anarchy last summer?  If you were silent then, be silent now too

But crazies putting up some pretend gallows up?  WAY TOO MUCH.  Plus, didn’t we hear non-stop last year how “peaceful protesters” shouldn’t be lumped in with the more radical elements attending their gatherings?

I am not in the business of condoning clearly unlawful, disruptive mass gatherings of radicalized rubes.  But it should be clearly obvious to everyone, no matter your partisan persuasion, that people are reading into Wednesday’s events what they like.     

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

*whataboutist neoconfederate drivel*

I don't need to answer bad-faith "questions" like these from someone who thinks torching some random police station is an equally egregious assault on legitimate authority to raping American democracy by storming the US Capitol with Nazi and Confederate flags. and welcome to hard ignore.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

They killed Officer Sicknick.

They were also chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and constructed a makeshift gallows, so the idea that it can just be assumed they would have stayed peaceful is absurd, and classic Del Tachi far-right-coddling.

*I’m not in business of defending these people, but here is some whataboutisms on their behalf*

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

*whataboutist neoconfederate drivel*

I don't need to answer bad-faith "questions" like these from someone who thinks torching some random police station is an equally egregious assault on legitimate authority to raping American democracy by storming the US Capitol with Nazi and Confederate flags. and welcome to hard ignore.

As someone who loves grits, tho not enuff to eat five helpings in a row, I must ask you to reconsider your remarks.

Furthermore, even for neo-Confederates, I doubt that the General Lee's iconic roof is what would cause anyone to masturbate to The Dukes of Hazzard. There are much skimpier and enticing reasons to do so.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

*whataboutist neoconfederate drivel*

I don't need to answer bad-faith "questions" like these from someone who thinks torching some random police station is an equally egregious assault on legitimate authority to raping American democracy by storming the US Capitol with Nazi and Confederate flags. and welcome to hard ignore.

As someone who loves grits, tho not enuff to eat five helpings in a row, I must ask you to reconsider your remarks.

Furthermore, even for neo-Confederates, I doubt that the General Lee's iconic roof is what would cause anyone to masturbate to The Dukes of Hazzard. There are much skimpier and enticing reasons to do so.

tbh I'm assuming this post will get moderated for personal attack at some point, and I'm willing to accept that consequence. Consider my remarks reconsidered.

[Del Tachi]

*whataboutist neoconfederate drivel*

I don't need to answer bad-faith "questions" like these from someone who thinks torching some random police station is an equally egregious assault on legitimate authority to raping American democracy by storming the US Capitol with Nazi and Confederate flags. and welcome to hard ignore.

The problem is these two things really are fundamentally the same; it is just the case that one is more upsetting to your “refined” sensibilities.  Both the police and congress exercise legitimate, Constitutional authority.

Unlike your hate-laden spiel, I have nothing demeaning to say about you as a person even though we disagree.  

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

They killed Officer Sicknick.

They were also chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and constructed a makeshift gallows, so the idea that it can just be assumed they would have stayed peaceful is absurd, and classic Del Tachi far-right-coddling.

*I’m not in business of defending these people, but here is some whataboutisms on their behalf*

And incidentally, I checked you posts on the insurrection thread.
You very much were cheering them on and making excuses.
Where were you in January 6th? Do you have a Parler account? Asking for a friend in black.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The only person whom they could of influenced was Mike Pence to stop h from signing the Certificates, then the President Pro Temp would have signed it, there were too many Rs that wanted the Election over with in Biden favor if there were hostages

[Horus]

Where’re we getting the idea that the protesters at the Capitol wanted to kill Schumer and Pelosi?  Is that what they were chanting?  Did they kill anyone else along the way?  lmao

If the mob had been allowed to overrun the Capitol well into the night, then the House/Senate would have convened somewhere else to certify the electoral college results.  This actually isn’t unprecedented.  An emergency forced the Senate to convene at an alternate location in 2011.  Anyone want to guess what it was?

They killed Officer Sicknick.

They were also chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and constructed a makeshift gallows, so the idea that it can just be assumed they would have stayed peaceful is absurd, and classic Del Tachi far-right-coddling.

*I’m not in business of defending these people, but here is some whataboutisms on their behalf*

And incidentally, I checked you posts on the insurrection thread.
You very much were cheering them on and making excuses.
Where were you in January 6th? Do you have a Parler account? Asking for a friend in black.

You're talking to the guy who said the only sane Floridians were the descendants of "plantation money."

He is not a good person.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

*whataboutist neoconfederate drivel*

I don't need to answer bad-faith "questions" like these from someone who thinks torching some random police station is an equally egregious assault on legitimate authority to raping American democracy by storming the US Capitol with Nazi and Confederate flags. and welcome to hard ignore.

The problem is these two things really are fundamentally the same; it is just the case that one is more upsetting to your “refined” sensibilities.  Both the police and congress exercise legitimate, Constitutional authority.

Unlike your hate-laden spiel, I have nothing demeaning to say about you as a person even though we disagree.  

Look just because I cheer-lead a coup and now am pretending I didn’t but asking isn’t The Left (tm)is just as bad, I don’t know why you have to make things personal.

I just wanted to see your democratic government destroyed, you don’t have to imply I’m a bad person.

[GP270watch]

 There is no amount of sustainable military or police presence that can stop the consequences of the citizenry losing faith in their government. That goes for people on the right and left. I said this during the protests of the last few years. What keeps law and order isn't police or a "thin blue line", it's the fact most people are good, that they have dreams and plans for their future prospects, that they believe if they do the right things they will better their station in life. Once you lose that, their is no amount of legal enforcement or authority that can quell that anger.