Should the Left defend the right to refuse the Covid Vaccine?

[I Stand With TRKL1917]

This has become a major political issue in Europe and will soon become one in the US as well. There is a growing move in many parts of Europe to mandate vaccination, deprive unvaccinated people of human rights and engage in various forms of fascist repression against them. People who say they will refuse the vaccine tend to be poor, working-class, young and are disproportionately immigrants and POC. Despite this, most of the political resistance to forced vaccination seems to be on the far right, while the left says nothing or - worse - supports forced vaccination as an "anti-fascist" move to defend "science" against "conspiracy theories". A number of "Antifa" groups have openly staged counter-protests targeting "anti-vaxxers" who they consider "anti-Semites".

Where do you think the Left should stand on this issue?

[Left Wing]

Ready to get ratioed on another dumbass poll?

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

The left supports forced teaching of heliocentrism as an "anti-obscurantist" move to defend "science" against "conspiracy theories", but people who don't believe that the Earth turns around the Sun are more likely to be poor, working class, and immigrants or POC. We are depriving non-heliocentrists of human rights and engaging in fascist repression against them, when their beliefs are just as valid as anyone else's!

[dead0man]

authoritarians are going to authoritate

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It looks like it won't matter too much.  First off, until there is sufficient supply that we can vaccinate everyone who wants to be vaccinated, there's little reason to even consider forced vaccination.  Second, assuming the vaccines are as effective as reported, unless we have truly atrocious levels of vaccine refusal, we should be able to reach herd immunity without forcing vaccination. Third, once we get COVID mostly under control in the first-world, it'll be far more important to get vaccine supply to third-world countries than to worry about the last few percent of idiots here. We have far more to fear from a new vaccine-resistant strain developing in the third-world and coming here than we do from it happening amidst the anti-vaxxer idiots amongst us.

So, unless the supply rolls out far more quickly than expected, this issue won't matter until at least next autumn, as we'll have plenty of willing arms to receive what supplies we have available.

[H. Ross Peron]

This has become a major political issue in Europe and will soon become one in the US as well. There is a growing move in many parts of Europe to mandate vaccination, deprive unvaccinated people of human rights and engage in various forms of fascist repression against them. People who say they will refuse the vaccine tend to be poor, working-class, young and are disproportionately immigrants and POC. Despite this, most of the political resistance to forced vaccination seems to be on the far right, while the left says nothing or - worse - supports forced vaccination as an "anti-fascist" move to defend "science" against "conspiracy theories". A number of "Antifa" groups have openly staged counter-protests targeting "anti-vaxxers" who they consider "anti-Semites".

Where do you think the Left should stand on this issue?

Stop engaging in postmodern identitarian relativism. The left should favour policies that materially benefit and strengthen the working-class and those that are based on science, both of which favour mandatory vaccination.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Yes, but as True Federalist says it won't matter too much probably. Also, we should certainly keep telling people that vaccinations are safe.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

No

I’ll tolerate the Amish and such, but not getting a vaccine without a legitimate medical exemption makes you a public health risk. Get the hell over it.

[Hammy]

Absolutely not, especially considering the entire anti-vax movement is based on a lie that was originally started to discredit a rival.

[DC Al Fine]

Yes for several reasons:

1) As Ernest said, the nature of the virus is such that we have a bit of grace in terms of achieving herd immunity. It'd be one thing if we needed to vaccinate 99% of the population, but we don't.

2) I'm very, very wary of the state forcing medical treatments onto the populace. It carries the whiff of certain mid-20th century totalitarian regimes.

3) The group most likely in polling to refuse the COVID vaccine are blacks, who have good reason to be nervous about the American medical establishment, even if they don't for the vaccine itself. Forcing vaccination seems counterproductive here.

4)

authoritarians are going to authoritate

Jumping to force, isn't just authoritarian, it's a lazy approach to governance. A serious attempt to combat anti-vaccination sentiment hasn't really been tried, but here some posters are jumping directly to force. Heck, I've seen more government ads about how to practice "safe COVID sex" than about "safe vaccinations, yet here we are with a significant contingent arguing we ought to force vaccines on people.

Much of the anti-vax sentiment I've seen around the COVID vaccine, is particular to COVID vaccines.  That is, many people are fine getting a flu shot or their kids vaccinated against measles, but are nervous about the speed of the approval process, limited safety data for certain groups (e.g. pregnant women) per the CDC etc. It's ok to be nervous about something like this, even if it's wrong. Jumping to forcing people to vaccinate is extremely heavy handed. What these people need is education and solid PR campaigns.

If I were running things, I'd have pro-vaccine ads everywhere. Biden would be vaccinated on national television if he hasn't already. I'd make contacts with local leaders in minority communities and have them first in line at the local vaccine clinic etc. These would be more effective and so much less heavy handed than force.

5) Lastly, if we forcibly vaccinated people, and God forbid, one of the vaccines was approved too quickly and had serious side effects, it would set the pro-vaccine camp, and trust in government in general back decades.

[DC Al Fine]

Also, I can't believe a literal monarchist is one of the more anti-authoritarian posters in this debate

[parochial boy]

I'm European, read European media in three different languages and I haven't really seen any debate over whether the vaccine should be obligatory or not tbh?

The debate has been over whether it is legitimate to restrict access to services to people who don't get vaccinated; ie hairdressers, restaurants, airlines refusing servce - and how you would give them the ability to know whether someone was vaccinated or not. Which is something of a different debate really.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Also, I can't believe a literal monarchist is one of the more anti-authoritarian posters in this debate

For the record 1. I don't believe that not defending the right to refuse the vaccine and endorsing mandatory vaccinations is exactly the same and 2. I voted No in part because I was sick with OP's stupid and toxic rhetoric and behaviour (already shown across multiple threads) and hoped that even people who might otherwise vote Yes would do the same just to give him the ratio he deserved. However that's now a moot point since he has been banned in the meantime. I think Ernest's take is the best for what it's worth.

[dead0man]

posting incorrectly to own the trolls

[buritobr]

No

[It’s so Joever]

Yes while it’s in short supply.
Let those who want to get it have a chance first.
However once the vaccine is widely available and we have long term data, I would support mandating it like all other vaccines.

[AGA]

No one should be forced to receive medical treatment, so yes.

[NewYorkExpress]

No

I’ll tolerate the Amish and such, but not getting a vaccine without a legitimate medical exemption makes you a public health risk. Get the hell over it.

I'll go a step further. There shouldn't even be medical exemptions to vaccination.

[Goldwater]

No

I’ll tolerate the Amish and such, but not getting a vaccine without a legitimate medical exemption makes you a public health risk. Get the hell over it.

I'll go a step further. There shouldn't even be medical exemptions to vaccination.

That's downright sadistic.

[NewYorkExpress]

No

I’ll tolerate the Amish and such, but not getting a vaccine without a legitimate medical exemption makes you a public health risk. Get the hell over it.

I'll go a step further. There shouldn't even be medical exemptions to vaccination.

That's downright sadistic.

I'm sorry, but whatever medical condition someone has, should not impede the general health of the population.

[Dr. MB]

No

I’ll tolerate the Amish and such, but not getting a vaccine without a legitimate medical exemption makes you a public health risk. Get the hell over it.

I'll go a step further. There shouldn't even be medical exemptions to vaccination.

That's downright sadistic.

I'm sorry, but whatever medical condition someone has, should not impede the general health of the population.

the amount of people with a medical condition that would prevent them from getting a vaccine is too small to actually have an impact on the health of the population as a whole

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

No

I’ll tolerate the Amish and such, but not getting a vaccine without a legitimate medical exemption makes you a public health risk. Get the hell over it.

I'll go a step further. There shouldn't even be medical exemptions to vaccination.

That's downright sadistic.

I'm sorry, but whatever medical condition someone has, should not impede the general health of the population.

That's just ignorant. There are people so allergic to certain vaccines that taking them means death. That's the whole point of herd immunity--inoculate everyone else to protect the people who can't be vaccinated.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

I'm pretty socially libertarian but this is the one issue where public safety trumps protecting some gem-healing dumb f**ks feel feels

[HisGrace]

Adults should not be forced to take vaccinations and children are not a high priority group for the COVID vaccine.

It looks like it won't matter too much.  First off, until there is sufficient supply that we can vaccinate everyone who wants to be vaccinated, there's little reason to even consider forced vaccination.  Second, assuming the vaccines are as effective as reported, unless we have truly atrocious levels of vaccine refusal, we should be able to reach herd immunity without forcing vaccination. Third, once we get COVID mostly under control in the first-world, it'll be far more important to get vaccine supply to third-world countries than to worry about the last few percent of idiots here. We have far more to fear from a new vaccine-resistant strain developing in the third-world and coming here than we do from it happening amidst the anti-vaxxer idiots amongst us.

There's just no reason for this for the reasons quoted above as well. Liberals love their authoritarian technocracy fantasies these days.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Just make there be a $100 credit if you get it, and don't worry about anyone who decides it's not worth the credit.