Where did Odin come from? (user search)
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  Where did Odin come from? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Where did Odin come from?  (Read 1019 times)
Lechasseur
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« on: January 02, 2021, 07:56:47 PM »

I have heard before that Germanic mythology is significantly more impacted by non-Indo European elements, specifically early Uralic peoples.  I think I remember that their concept of layered worlds were from this, too.  Perhaps some deities made it over, as well.  I do remember hearing from a Kings and Generals YouTube video on the early Germanic peoples (HIGHLY recommend this channel!) that Roman authors incorrectly linked a few Germanic gods via syncretism, too.

Ah you watch Kings and Generals too? I love that channel!
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Lechasseur
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Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13

« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2021, 08:00:08 PM »

People have been suggesting since the 1870s that Odin is a later addition to the Germanic pantheon. The late-Victorian view was that original supreme god was Thor, who of course is a thunder god, and that Odin was parachuted in later as part of some broader social shift. I'm not sure if that's still the received understanding now, though.

That seems to make the most sense, even if I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the subject (I'm much more interested in Middle Eastern (monotheistic) religions tbh)
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Lechasseur
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*****
Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13

« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2021, 04:33:59 AM »

People have been suggesting since the 1870s that Odin is a later addition to the Germanic pantheon. The late-Victorian view was that original supreme god was Thor, who of course is a thunder god, and that Odin was parachuted in later as part of some broader social shift. I'm not sure if that's still the received understanding now, though.
I have heard of that theory but the flaw I always found in that is that I can’t think of any recorded references to Thor that really predate any mention of Odin as well with previous mentioned Germania being one of the earliest known references and both are in it. Also Odin along with Thor was the most commonly worshiped deity across various Germanic tribes which shouldn’t be the case if he was a later add on

The thing is, the Germanic tribes existed well before a recorded history of them did. They didn't really start leaving Scandinavia until the last quarter of the first millenium BC if I'm not wrong.

Being in a small space geographically and existing well before they enter history gave them more than enough time to innovate religiously before they enter the history books.
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Lechasseur
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*****
Posts: 10,779


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13

« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2021, 06:06:11 PM »

I have heard before that Germanic mythology is significantly more impacted by non-Indo European elements, specifically early Uralic peoples.  I think I remember that their concept of layered worlds were from this, too.  Perhaps some deities made it over, as well.  I do remember hearing from a Kings and Generals YouTube video on the early Germanic peoples (HIGHLY recommend this channel!) that Roman authors incorrectly linked a few Germanic gods via syncretism, too.

Ah you watch Kings and Generals too? I love that channel!

Probably tied for my favorite YouTube channel, along with Fire of Learning, though the latter just puts out content on a less regular basis.  Their video on the Germanic peoples was super interesting!

Back to the OP again, isn't the simplified version of the early migrations that Uralic speakers came from the north, Indo Europeans came up through Denmark from Northern Germany and in between were "indigenous Northern Europeans" (i.e., those of I1 haplogroups, largely)?  Then after a while, the "proto-Germanic" culture found its ethnogenesis in (extreme) Southern Scandinavia and Northern Germany?  This would leave the bulk of the population in Scandinavia just as close to Uralic peoples as Germanic peoples.  Considering the odd situation of Woden/Odin being the CHIEF god of the Germanic pantheon but also identified with Mercury by the Romans, I do wonder if perhaps his origin is non-Indo European.

Yep Kings and Generals is my favorite as well

And yeah I think your theory there is probably correct
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