So, as of January 2021, do we think that Trump was a fascist at heart?

[Blue3]

Now that we have nearly 4 years of complete data on what a Trump Presidency was like in reality, can we say Trump personally learned towards fascism?

I think it's not political to say that tens of millions of people, in the US and around the world, think Trump is a fascist. His recent attempts to overturn the election on groundless claims, the strong devotion of his followers despite untruths, his authoritarian and ultranationalist desires trumping concerns for human rights, his defense of the existing socioeconomic hierarchy, his wishes he could be president for life and ignore courts and laws when he wants, his attempts to suppress unfriendly media and others opposing him, his glorification of the military (when it suits his purposes), his remarks on ethnicity/race and culture/religion (especially of perceived "outsiders," such as his "otherization" of American Muslims and Latin American immigrants), his friendly relations with authoritarian world leaders like Putin and Kim Jong Un and the Saudi Royals, and his strong opposition to a loose movement known as the anti-fascists --- all definitely contribute factually to "fascist at heart" being an accurate description of Trump while he's been President for a little over 3 years and 11 months and through two elections with Trump as the Republican Party's presidential nominee.

[Kuumo]

I don't think he is a fascist at heart because he doesn't understand what fascism is. However, his actions stemming from his megalomania and victim complex and the attitudes of some of his supporters certainly share many similarities to fascism.

[Big Abraham]

Somewhere on a Fox News forum after Trump inauguration:

"So, as of January 2017, do we still think that Obama was a Communist at heart?"
Yes wins by a 4:1 margin

Never change, Atlas

[Progressive Pessimist]

Yes, but more due to his shamelessness instincts and personality than any sort of ideological belief in it. He might not even know what Fascism is, if asked. Like most things with him he just so happens to fall ass-backwards into something. In this case it's him just so happening to have autocratic, Fascist sympathies without knowing it and certain reactionaries within the country responding favorably to that.

[Blue3]

I don't think he is a fascist at heart because he doesn't understand what fascism is.

He doesn't understand what it is, it's not ideological for him, but Trump being Trump has definitively shown he's a fascist at heart after 4 years of data and looking at the actual definitions and descriptions of fascism. He didn't make us into a fascist country, but he himself is a fascist.

[beaver2.0]

Vell he's just zis guy, you know?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Trump doesn't really have any political beliefs outside of maybe "political correctness bad, making money good".

[Blue3]

Trump doesn't really have any political beliefs outside of maybe "political correctness bad, making money good".

That's why I said "at heart."

[brucejoel99]

Being a fascist "at heart" requires such a sincerely-held ideological belief. Of course, Trump holds no such belief outside of his own selfishness & contempt for people who aren't him or his loyalists. Yes, he's obviously more than happy to abuse & damage our democratic institutions if/when doing so suits him, but a concrete intellectual framework can't really be ascribed to him in the fashion that it can be to some individuals close to him, like Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon. All Trump is "at heart" is a narcissistic con-artist who stumbled into power thanks to the fortune he inherited.

[Cassius]

Defending the existing socioeconomic hierarchy makes you a fascist now?

[Fuzzy Bear]

The suggestion that Trump is a Fascist at any level is reidiculous.

[Hindsight was 2020]

He clearly hates democracy at minimum but to call him a pure fascist might be giving a coherent political philosophy then what he actually has

[Blue3]

Defending the existing socioeconomic hierarchy makes you a fascist now?

A regimented economy/society is one of the usual descriptions of fascism. Trump didn't create it, I'll grant, but he definitely defended it.

He clearly hates democracy at minimum but to call him a pure fascist might be giving a coherent political philosophy then what he actually has

Not calling him a pure fascist.

Being a fascist "at heart" requires such a sincerely-held ideological belief. Of course, Trump holds no such belief outside of his own selfishness & contempt for people who aren't him or his loyalists. Yes, he's obviously more than happy to abuse & damage our democratic institutions if/when doing so suits him, but a concrete intellectual framework can't really be ascribed to him in the fashion that it can be to some individuals close to him, like Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon. All Trump is "at heart" is a narcissistic con-artist who stumbled into power thanks to the fortune he inherited.

I said "at heart" to show I didn't meant he believed it as an ideological follower, just as who he just *is* at heart.

[Big Abraham]

Defending the existing socioeconomic hierarchy makes you a fascist now?

A regimented economy/society is one of the usual descriptions of fascism. Trump didn't create it, I'll grant, but he definitely defended it.

By this superficial logic every president is a defender of "one of the descriptions of fascism." Talk about grasping at straws.

[SWE]

He never really pretended not to be

[Blue3]

Defending the existing socioeconomic hierarchy makes you a fascist now?

A regimented economy/society is one of the usual descriptions of fascism. Trump didn't create it, I'll grant, but he definitely defended it.

By this superficial logic every president is a defender of "one of the descriptions of fascism." Talk about grasping at straws.

It's that COMBINED with all of the other factors I mentioned. (And I didn't even get into the economic protectionism, and other stuff).

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

If Trump could get away with it he would govern like Pinochet, Franco or Mussolini. He is a fascist thug at heart who admires fellow demagogues.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I don't think he is a fascist at heart because he doesn't understand what fascism is. However, his actions stemming from his megalomania and victim complex and the attitudes of some of his supporters certainly share many similarities to fascism.

[Big Abraham]

Defending the existing socioeconomic hierarchy makes you a fascist now?

A regimented economy/society is one of the usual descriptions of fascism. Trump didn't create it, I'll grant, but he definitely defended it.

By this superficial logic every president is a defender of "one of the descriptions of fascism." Talk about grasping at straws.

It's that COMBINED with all of the other factors I mentioned. (And I didn't even get into the economic protectionism, and other stuff).

I've already responded to some of these points from other posters numerous times, but let's go over these.

His recent attempts to overturn the election on groundless claims,

He hasn't attempted to overturn the election. His GOP acolytes filed a couple of failed notions for a recount in Pennsylvania. That's quite within their legal and constitutional right to do, even if the claims themselves are baseless.

the strong devotion of his followers despite untruths,

This could be applied to any leader. All politicians lie for political gain, and their followers disregard inconvenient truths in the name of besting their political opponents. Also, "strong devotion of his followers despite untruths" isn't even one of the "usual descriptions of fascism," per your own definition.

his authoritarian and ultranationalist desires trumping concerns for human rights,

Trump is hardly more "ultranationalist" than other presidents, and is decidedly less imperialist (at least in terms of overtly waging offensive illegal wars) than other presidents, so on that front, he's actually less fascistic. As for as "authoritarianism" is concerned, what specific policy of Trump's (that was uniquely the product of the Trump administration and not as a result of collaboration with the other branches of government) makes him "fascist"?

his wishes he could be president for life and ignore courts and laws when he wants,

The courts have prevented Trump from doing enacting the extent of his agenda numerous times over the course of his presidency, and last I checked, fascists don't usually have their budgets overrode by Congress, or get impeached.

his attempts to suppress unfriendly media and others opposing him,

This is such a joke it's hardly worth responding to. As I said on another thread, Obama spied on multiple journalists and tried to have a reporter jailed for not revealing his sources. If Trump is a "fascist" because he criticized bad-faith reporters during press conferences, what does that make Obama?

his glorification of the military (when it suits his purposes),

Doting on the military is a tradition as old as time. As you even said "when it suits his purposes," it goes to show he has no real actual devotion to the "glorification of the military" in any meaningful way.

his remarks on ethnicity/race and culture/religion (especially of perceived "outsiders," such as his "otherization" of American Muslims and Latin American immigrants),

Vague and weasel words here. Even if Trump did come out and say something overtly intolerant, like "all Arabs and Mexicans are scum of the earth" or something to that effect, that would be a good argument to demonstrate the president's racism—much less his supposed "fascism." Not to mention the fact he's repeatedly cited his electoral success with minorities and that Latin American voters massively trended towards Trump in the 2020 election. You have no idea what you're talking about.

his friendly relations with authoritarian world leaders like Putin and Kim Jong Un and the Saudi Royals,

Normalizing relations with Russia and North Korea is a good thing and should be welcomed by liberals everywhere. However, acting like Trump has "friendly" relations with Putin is ridiculousness par excellence. He twice launched airstrikes on Russian ally Syria, including dramatically accelerating the U.S.-led campaign there against the rebels and the Islamic state, and tried to initiate regime change of Russian ally Venezuela, and has continued the harsh sanctions against Russia begun under Obama due to American imperialistic interests in the Ukraine.

Also, the Saudi royals? Lmao, are you kidding me dude? Literally every president of my life has kowtowed to those tyrannical oil magnates.

and his strong opposition to a loose movement known as the anti-fascists

Ah yes, because "antifa" calls themselves "anti-fascist," therefore if you are opposed to them, you are in fact a proponent of fascism. Excellent logic sir. And I suppose if you are also opposed to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea you are also opposed to democracy, and if you oppose the Patriot Act, you must be an enemy of patriotism.

It's easy to be "anti-fascist" when you label anyone opposed to yourself as "fascist."

In short, your "examples" are extremely feeble and reek of partisan hackery. You have failed to detail a single aspect of the Trump presidency that could not apply in equal or greater measure to other presidents.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Being fascist is not some sort of unique trait among recent Presidents or our President elect who bragged about writing the Patriot Act.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I don’t know what this fascination with what’s in politician’s ‘hearts’ is. You are what you do and that goes double for public figures.

 

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

This is what happens to a party when they have exhausted everyone, you get Trump whom only won based on a third party vote. Trump since 2004 has been eyeing the WH, and used the birther comment to get WC voters.

The Rs have literally no one else to run but someone like Trump, the Rs that are thinking about running aren't gonna win in 2024

It's only a matter of time TX and FL become full D states

[Hindsight was 2020]

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

[pbrower2a]

The suggestion that Trump is a Fascist at any level is reidiculous.

He is strongly authoritarian and he is far to the Right on the political spectrum. He does political violence, and he twists words into lies.

[Santander]

He's definitely [racist], he's instinctively [fascist], and in 1930s Germany he'd be [a Nazi].