Puerto Rico

[Samof94]

If PR was a state, what color would it be? Let’s say it still spoke Spanish.

[Former President tack50]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

[Sol]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

Well fyi members of those parties do also cross-register with Democrats and Republicans, so presumably they would be elected on both parties but then caucus with the party they identify with federally.

[Former President tack50]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

Well fyi members of those parties do also cross-register with Democrats and Republicans, so presumably they would be elected on both parties but then caucus with the party they identify with federally.

Fair enough, but I think that the party leaderships from Dems and Republicans will have a much lower impact on the PR congressmen than on everyone else.

[Tintrlvr]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

In addition to the point mentioned elsewhere that the PPD and PNP politicians affiliate with national parties (all PPD politicians are Democrats; PNP politicians are split about 50-50), the main political divide between the PPD and the PNP is based on statehood. Once statehood is a fait accompli, I doubt those organizations would survive in the same form; likely the PNP would fall apart as seeking statehood is basically all that holds it together currently, and you'd end up with the Republicans (the right wing of the PNP) and the PPD-Democrats (union of the PPD and the left wing of the PNP) as the two main parties.

Definitely possible for reform/anti-system parties to occasionally have success at the state level, but they would probably not have much influence in national politics (e.g., in Congressional elections) without actually displacing either the PPD-Democrats or the Republicans (likely the latter, since the Republicans would be a permanent minority party in PR anyway).

[Sol]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

In addition to the point mentioned elsewhere that the PPD and PNP politicians affiliate with national parties (all PPD politicians are Democrats; PNP politicians are split about 50-50), the main political divide between the PPD and the PNP is based on statehood. Once statehood is a fait accompli, I doubt those organizations would survive in the same form; likely the PNP would fall apart as seeking statehood is basically all that holds it together currently, and you'd end up with the Republicans (the right wing of the PNP) and the PPD-Democrats (union of the PPD and the left wing of the PNP) as the two main parties.

Definitely possible for reform/anti-system parties to occasionally have success at the state level, but they would probably not have much influence in national politics (e.g., in Congressional elections) without actually displacing either the PPD-Democrats or the Republicans (likely the latter, since the Republicans would be a permanent minority party in PR anyway).

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

[Tintrlvr]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

In addition to the point mentioned elsewhere that the PPD and PNP politicians affiliate with national parties (all PPD politicians are Democrats; PNP politicians are split about 50-50), the main political divide between the PPD and the PNP is based on statehood. Once statehood is a fait accompli, I doubt those organizations would survive in the same form; likely the PNP would fall apart as seeking statehood is basically all that holds it together currently, and you'd end up with the Republicans (the right wing of the PNP) and the PPD-Democrats (union of the PPD and the left wing of the PNP) as the two main parties.

Definitely possible for reform/anti-system parties to occasionally have success at the state level, but they would probably not have much influence in national politics (e.g., in Congressional elections) without actually displacing either the PPD-Democrats or the Republicans (likely the latter, since the Republicans would be a permanent minority party in PR anyway).

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

The thing is, once statehood happens, there's no legal pathway to anything else barring a federal Constitutional amendment, which will never happen. All of this is assuming statehood; I agree short of statehood many Puerto Ricans would prefer something other than statehood.

[Sol]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

In addition to the point mentioned elsewhere that the PPD and PNP politicians affiliate with national parties (all PPD politicians are Democrats; PNP politicians are split about 50-50), the main political divide between the PPD and the PNP is based on statehood. Once statehood is a fait accompli, I doubt those organizations would survive in the same form; likely the PNP would fall apart as seeking statehood is basically all that holds it together currently, and you'd end up with the Republicans (the right wing of the PNP) and the PPD-Democrats (union of the PPD and the left wing of the PNP) as the two main parties.

Definitely possible for reform/anti-system parties to occasionally have success at the state level, but they would probably not have much influence in national politics (e.g., in Congressional elections) without actually displacing either the PPD-Democrats or the Republicans (likely the latter, since the Republicans would be a permanent minority party in PR anyway).

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

The thing is, once statehood happens, there's no legal pathway to anything else barring a federal Constitutional amendment, which will never happen. All of this is assuming statehood; I agree short of statehood many Puerto Ricans would prefer something other than statehood.

There's still a decent amount of autonomist desire in Hawai'i even after statehood, and Hawai'i is a lot more culturally roped into the US Anglo mainstream than PR. I think there'll be a political vehicle for Puerto Rican autonomy no matter the specific legal status.

[Former President tack50]

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

Given that the big desire for PR statehood tends to come from the fact that they have no representation, wouldn't a simple solution be to simply give them representation via constitutional amendment?

It doesn't even need to be full representation they could get say, 1 Senator (as opposed to 2) and half of whichever many House representatives they'd be entitled to.

[Sol]

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

Given that the big desire for PR statehood tends to come from the fact that they have no representation, wouldn't a simple solution be to simply give them representation via constitutional amendment?

It doesn't even need to be full representation they could get say, 1 Senator (as opposed to 2) and half of whichever many House representatives they'd be entitled to.

That'd be logical, but I think it's politically a no-go--passing that constitutional amendment would require a lot of Republican support.

[lfromnj]

Write in: Green.

Puerto Rico will presumably not elect politicians from the Democratic or Republican party, but rather their very own local parties (PPD and PNP respectively, though in 2020 there was a huge third party wave which reminds me a bit of Spain 2015).

Presidentially PR will vote for Democrats but it will send essencially 4 independents to the House of Representatives and 2 independents to the Senate.

In addition to the point mentioned elsewhere that the PPD and PNP politicians affiliate with national parties (all PPD politicians are Democrats; PNP politicians are split about 50-50), the main political divide between the PPD and the PNP is based on statehood. Once statehood is a fait accompli, I doubt those organizations would survive in the same form; likely the PNP would fall apart as seeking statehood is basically all that holds it together currently, and you'd end up with the Republicans (the right wing of the PNP) and the PPD-Democrats (union of the PPD and the left wing of the PNP) as the two main parties.

Definitely possible for reform/anti-system parties to occasionally have success at the state level, but they would probably not have much influence in national politics (e.g., in Congressional elections) without actually displacing either the PPD-Democrats or the Republicans (likely the latter, since the Republicans would be a permanent minority party in PR anyway).

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

I mean the problem with giving statehood on a 52-48 vote isn't just the closeness of it. A lot of referendum are close but still take action( as they rightly should.) The problem with statehood is that its literally quite permanent as far as I can tell.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Even if the local parties continue to exist for purposes of electing local government and Congresscritters, I can't see the PNP or PDP getting into Presidential politics unless they end up aligning with the national parties.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I’m confused by the poll choice, but I think it’d be a light democratic trend. Republicans could win state wide office in a good year, but it’ll likely be a default democratic state

[Padfoot]

I dunno, I suspect a lot of Puerto Ricans will still want some sort of autonomous status even after statehood, which is why I'm a lot more lukewarm/cautious about it than other red avatars. Public opinion seems to be about 50-50 (ok, 52-48) on it, and opponents of statehood feel that way for a reason.

Puerto Rico is the kind of situation which really calls for a Greenland/Aland Islands type solution with significant local autonomy while still being tied to the US state. Something along the lines of US citizenship and federal representation but a lot more power in their finances, laws, etc. Hard to see how that would work given the present derangement of the GOP but that seems the most logical option.

Given that the big desire for PR statehood tends to come from the fact that they have no representation, wouldn't a simple solution be to simply give them representation via constitutional amendment?

It doesn't even need to be full representation they could get say, 1 Senator (as opposed to 2) and half of whichever many House representatives they'd be entitled to.

I agree that an amendment is needed, not just for PR but for all the territories.  I would actually suggest that territories should get FULL representation in the House (the people's chamber) and NO representation in the Senate (the states' chamber).  That way they could all be full US citizens with representation but not really have equal power to the states.  Electoral votes would still be based on their members of Congress so the small territories would only get 1 EV since they would have no Senators.

Honestly though, the anti-statehood people in PR need to just get over this idea of "territory +" that most of them seem to want.  There needs to be a vote where they are forced to choose between independence or statehood.  A free-association agreement could be worked out if independence wins. 

[Sol]

Independence is basically unfeasible, considering the absolutely humongous diaspora on the mainland. What's wrong with territory+representation?

[Meclazine for Israel]

When my geography teacher asks.

Puerto Rico

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C17kK9VvJPH/

If Puerto Rico becomes a state, which state has to go?

Puerto 🇵🇷 Rico

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2dshD4JeI0/

[mileslunn]

Solid blue and not even close.  Would be at least as blue as Hawaii may be even more so.  Puerto Ricans in US pretty reliably Democrat.  In Northeast usually top 70% and under Obama even topped 80%.  In Florida GOP does a bit better but even then Trump only got about 1/3 in Florida despite getting over 40% amongst Latinos overall in state.  It wouldn't be as blue as DC but could easily be bluest state beating out even Hawaii, Vermont or Massachusetts (Since 2000 bluest has been one of those three).

Often cultural and linguistic minorities vote quite a bit left of country.  Quebec in Canada, Scotland in UK, Catalonia & Basque country in Spain, Wallonia in Belgium all examples of this where right does significantly worse in each than country as whole.

[Progressive Pessimist]

It would be safe D, but maybe some of its congressional districts could be more competitive.

[wnwnwn]

Light blue on state politics. Safe blue on federal politics.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

When my geography teacher asks.

Puerto Rico

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C17kK9VvJPH/

If Puerto Rico becomes a state, which state has to go?

Puerto 🇵🇷 Rico

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2dshD4JeI0/

You can't get rid of Delaware if Delaware doesn't actually exist.