Islam and left-wing extremism

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Does anybody know why the left and especially left-wing extremists became allies with Islam? This is a phenomenon I will never be able to grasp. The purpose of Islam is to fight anything the left had fought for for decades, even paying with their lives. Islam is clearly a right-wing extremist, anti-Semitic, dangerous, and - according to many constitutional experts - unconstitutional ideology, which is common sense in Europe, especially in Germany, Austria, France, the Netherlands, and Sweden, where the governments faces huge, unsolvable problems with majority-Muslim neighborhoods as they have become utterly ungovernable. That's why Hitler was a passionate admirer of the Islamic world, and Arabic and Persian leaders considered themselves as loyal allies of his. I know there are many secular Muslims who are completely integrated into Western society and who regularly criticize their non-assimilable coreligionists - but exactly those reasonable Muslims are under police protection as they receive death threat by their socially dangerous counterparts, which are seconded by the left and especially by the Antifa (alas, also by some members of this forum 😕).
I know that this is a very European topic, as the US doesn't face the same problems as we do thanks to their restricting immigration policy and thanks to their non-existing welfare system and thanks to their merciless legal system and thanks to their lack of child allowance.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I know there are many secular Muslims who are completely integrated into Western society and who regularly criticize their non-assimilable coreligionists - but exactly those reasonable Muslims are under police protection as they receive death threat by their socially dangerous counterparts, which are seconded by the left and especially by the Antifa (alas, also by some members of this forum ).

Again, you're reading this into people's responses to your points in other threads in a shockingly uncharitable way. Nobody on this forum who disagrees with you on legally banning hijab or whatever disagrees because we're secretly Islamists or support death threats against secular Muslims, get the hell over yourself.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

I know there are many secular Muslims who are completely integrated into Western society and who regularly criticize their non-assimilable coreligionists - but exactly those reasonable Muslims are under police protection as they receive death threat by their socially dangerous counterparts, which are seconded by the left and especially by the Antifa (alas, also by some members of this forum ).

Again, you're reading this into people's responses to your points in other threads in a shockingly uncharitable way. Nobody on this forum who disagrees with you on legally banning hijab or whatever disagrees because we're secretly Islamists or support death threats against secular Muslims, get the hell over yourself.

It's basically only one extremist user who derails all treads he contributes to by spreading alternative facts and not acknowledging reliable sources that invalidate his points of views. It's like discussing with a left-wing QAnon sympathizer, who is completely unamenable for arguments. It's a pity that that rookie transferred his Twitter-style of "discussing" - which also right-wing extremists are known for - into our forum.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I know there are many secular Muslims who are completely integrated into Western society and who regularly criticize their non-assimilable coreligionists - but exactly those reasonable Muslims are under police protection as they receive death threat by their socially dangerous counterparts, which are seconded by the left and especially by the Antifa (alas, also by some members of this forum ).

Again, you're reading this into people's responses to your points in other threads in a shockingly uncharitable way. Nobody on this forum who disagrees with you on legally banning hijab or whatever disagrees because we're secretly Islamists or support death threats against secular Muslims, get the hell over yourself.

It's basically only one extremist user who derails all treads he contributes to by spreading alternative facts and not acknowledging reliable sources that invalidate his points of views. It's like discussing with a left-wing QAnon sympathizer, who is completely unamenable for arguments. It's a pity that that rookie transferred his Twitter-style of "discussing" - which also right-wing extremists are known for - into our forum.

I haven't seen any reason to believe he's an extremist or a troll other than you insisting that he is because he disagrees with you. Also, you accusing others of derailing threads to talk about this is rich.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

I know there are many secular Muslims who are completely integrated into Western society and who regularly criticize their non-assimilable coreligionists - but exactly those reasonable Muslims are under police protection as they receive death threat by their socially dangerous counterparts, which are seconded by the left and especially by the Antifa (alas, also by some members of this forum ).

Again, you're reading this into people's responses to your points in other threads in a shockingly uncharitable way. Nobody on this forum who disagrees with you on legally banning hijab or whatever disagrees because we're secretly Islamists or support death threats against secular Muslims, get the hell over yourself.

It's basically only one extremist user who derails all treads he contributes to by spreading alternative facts and not acknowledging reliable sources that invalidate his points of views. It's like discussing with a left-wing QAnon sympathizer, who is completely unamenable for arguments. It's a pity that that rookie transferred his Twitter-style of "discussing" - which also right-wing extremists are known for - into our forum.

I haven't seen any reason to believe he's an extremist or a troll other than you insisting that he is because he disagrees with you. Also, you accusing others of derailing threads to talk about this is rich.

He's extremely aggressive and insulting and he keeps spreading false facts. He's the kind of troll (left and right-wing) you find on Twitter who insults everyone with uncalled-for, content-free Tweets. And as someone who deifies Erdogan and Sawsan Chebli (currently the most-controversial and despised political figure in Germany) and who justifies death threats against secular Muslims can be deemed an extremist.
If I do something that can be deemed as "derailing" a thread then it's because that person wrote something that is contradictory to what he wrote in the Austrian thread.
Btw, MY opinion of this topic is absolutely mainstream and common sense among European society, which isn't even in need of discussion where I come from.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You know that I can read, right? I can read his posts for myself and see that he's not "deifying Erdogan" in them, wtf.

Do you have some sort of history with him? That's the only reason I can think of for why you're so over-the-top hostile towards him that you keep derailing thread after thread to be about how horrible he is.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

You know that I can read, right? I can read his posts for myself and see that he's not "deifying Erdogan" in them, wtf.

Do you have some sort of history with him? That's the only reason I can think of for why you're so over-the-top hostile towards him that you keep derailing thread after thread to be about how horrible he is.

I have had feuds with his kindred souls I know from Twitter and Facebook and other platforms, and I have a problem with the Antifa in general, as they are as violent, brutal and dangerous as their brown brethren (while feeling ethically superior at the same time).

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You know that I can read, right? I can read his posts for myself and see that he's not "deifying Erdogan" in them, wtf.

Do you have some sort of history with him? That's the only reason I can think of for why you're so over-the-top hostile towards him that you keep derailing thread after thread to be about how horrible he is.

I have had feuds with his kindred souls I know from Twitter and Facebook and other platforms, and I have a problem with the Antifa in general, as they are as violent, brutal and dangerous as their brown brethren (while feeling ethically superior at the same time).

So, in other words, no, you have no history with him and are reading gripes you have with other people into your interactions with him. Got it.

[Battista Minola 1616]

Hades, sometimes you give me the impression that you are not able to grasp why a leftist should care about religious freedom at all. Do you even realize that not every leftist is an aggressive laicist? Heck some leftists are even devout religious people.

I know that this is a very European topic, as the US doesn't face the same problems as we do thanks to their restricting immigration policy and thanks to their non-existing welfare system and thanks to their merciless legal system and thanks to their lack of child allowance.

WTF is wrong with you again?
You sound exactly like a racist right-winger in a white flight suburb opposing any form of public transport because the scary mean inner-city hoodlums (read: Black people) would benefit from it as well.

It's basically only one extremist user who derails all treads he contributes to by spreading alternative facts and not acknowledging reliable sources that invalidate his points of views. It's like discussing with a left-wing QAnon sympathizer, who is completely unamenable for arguments. It's a pity that that rookie transferred his Twitter-style of "discussing" - which also right-wing extremists are known for - into our forum.

LMAO The projection.

Btw, MY opinion of this topic is absolutely mainstream and common sense among European society, which isn't even in need of discussion where I come from.

Dude, thinking that Islam per se is a right-wing extremist and unconstitutional ideology or that we should gut all welfare to keep the Moozleems away is really not mainstream among European society.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Islam is clearly a right-wing extremist, anti-Semitic, dangerous, and - according to many constitutional experts - unconstitutional ideology,

WTF?

While the unbolded part might still be considered an opinion, I would simply regard the bolded part as factually incorrect.

[afleitch]

...

How do we salvage this mess.

First off, OP sort yourself out.

Secondly you should know that in Europe, Muslims generally align left. My own local SNP party branch is disproportionately Muslim. That activism, that form of 'identity politics' is much more intersectional with left wing and other progressive minority concerns. There's impeccable LGBT and BAME activism credentials amongst Muslims seeking office.

Now that's just my experience. Of course the 'angry protesting Muslim' visual, usually driven by the same sort of rabble rouser you find in white communities ranting about child trafficking and masks and immigrants and Soros betrays both what the actual community position is and what it's goals are for nothing more than cheap optics.

Leaving you with the OP rant.

[Battista Minola 1616]

...

How do we salvage this mess.

Well...

we don't.

This thread was clearly not meant for serious discussion of Muslims' political leanings.

[afleitch]

...

How do we salvage this mess.

Well...

we don't.

This thread was clearly not meant for serious discussion of Muslims' political leanings.

I don't disagree. But I am a fan of constructive rebuttals.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Was hoping for a blurb about how the PLO was part of the Third Wave of Rebel Terror and inquiring as to the intersection, yet we have this mess instead.

Lmao.

@Hades I keep trying to think of a quip concerning the Civic Constitution of the Clergy, but I'm not clever enough, so I'll stop with "the switch to a USSR avatar is oddly appropriate".

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Was hoping for a blurb about how the PLO was part of the Third Wave of Rebel Terror and inquiring as to the intersection, yet we have this mess instead.

Lmao.

Reminds me of that one guy from Black Lagoon.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

You should really try talking to Muslims, and specifically, Muslim women. Like actual people in real life.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Was hoping for a blurb about how the PLO was part of the Third Wave of Rebel Terror and inquiring as to the intersection, yet we have this mess instead.

Lmao.

Reminds me of that one guy from Black Lagoon.

Hell, for that matter the Joint List in Israel is basically a leftist/Islamist coalition, with a smaller contingent of bourgeois Arab nationalists. There is a "there" there, Hades is just very poorly equipped to correctly put his finger on it.

[Battista Minola 1616]

...and now Hades has the Christian cross emoji as display name and a Christian cross image as signature.

No comment.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I'll give a serious answer for the benefit of others, not the likes of the OP.

---


Generally and historically the Left (at least, the best parts of it) has cared about the rights of people who face systemic oppression and also, are harmed by US (or at least, US-led) foreign policy. In recent decades that has meant criticism of the way Muslims are treated around the world, whether that be in America and the rest of the Anglosphere, Europe (both Western and Eastern), India, Sri Lanka, China, Myanmar, along with the many war zones and failed states in Central Asia, the Middle East, and Africa.

Religious freedom and the rights of minorities and people who are in practice, racialized (don't give me this "you can't be racist against followers of a religion" sophistry) are indeed, key elements of it, but so is a broader critique of anti-imperialism - wherever that imperialism comes from. And it just so happens that Muslims en masse are, to one extent or another, being discriminated against, harassed, or worse, for various reasons and by various state and nonstate actors (the Global War on Terrorism and its discontents, political parties and movements, particularly - but by no means only - far-right ones, autocratic states in Muslim-majority countries, or countries with significant Muslim minorities; and of course, in Israel).

Of course, the people most immediately impacted by so-called Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves. They are the ones who are mostly likely to be killed by jihadists. They are the ones who are targeted for genocide if they happen to be of the wrong Islamic sect or belief system - or if they simply don't want to live under the rule of ISIS or al-Qaeda, as most people don't. They are the ones whose family members, sons and brothers (and also, daughters and sisters) are targeted for recruitment by jihadists. They are the ones who face ostracization, suspicion, harassment, and even violence by others  - again, both state and non-state actors. Law enforcement, intelligence agencies, militaries, elected officials - more often than not, these people make the issues for Muslim families worse, not better.

So yes, there are many reasons for why the Left stands in solidarity with a population of 2 billion. Just as the Left stands in solidarity with the rest of the world. All the world. At least, that's what the Left ought to do.

[PSOL]

We seriously need to make it a rule that the S-USSR avatar must be earned, rather than given.

[Cassius]

We seriously need to make it a rule that the S-USSR avatar must be earned, rather than given.

I would’ve thought that the OP would be rather favorable towards the Soviet Union’s Islam policy for broad stretches of its history.

[PSOL]

We seriously need to make it a rule that the S-USSR avatar must be earned, rather than given.

I would’ve thought that the OP would be rather favorable towards the Soviet Union’s Islam policy for broad stretches of its history.

That is irrelevant to the fact that so far 100% of users adopting that avatar have been cringe beyond relief.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

We seriously need to make it a rule that the S-USSR avatar must be earned, rather than given.

I would’ve thought that the OP would be rather favorable towards the Soviet Union’s Islam policy for broad stretches of its history.

That is irrelevant to the fact that so far 100% of users adopting that avatar have been cringe beyond relief.

Well the USSR was cringe so it makes sense.

[PSOL]

We seriously need to make it a rule that the S-USSR avatar must be earned, rather than given.

I would’ve thought that the OP would be rather favorable towards the Soviet Union’s Islam policy for broad stretches of its history.

That is irrelevant to the fact that so far 100% of users adopting that avatar have been cringe beyond relief.

Well the USSR was cringe so it makes sense.

It was less cringe overall than those giving the takes with the avatar tbh

[Sol]

Was hoping for a blurb about how the PLO was part of the Third Wave of Rebel Terror and inquiring as to the intersection, yet we have this mess instead.

Lmao.

Reminds me of that one guy from Black Lagoon.

Hell, for that matter the Joint List in Israel is basically a leftist/Islamist coalition, with a smaller contingent of bourgeois Arab nationalists. There is a "there" there, Hades is just very poorly equipped to correctly put his finger on it.

Or the pretty firm embrace of both Bernie '16 and '20 in the Muslim community.