2020 electoral college voting **live commentary thread**

[compucomp]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

[pbrower2a]

As of noon, 12/14/2020.

41 Trump/Pence (R, incumbent)
36 Biden/Harris (D)

[Gass3268]

All of Nevada's 6 votes were cast for Biden/Harris.

https://twitter.com/meganmesserly/status/1338525332127662080?s=20

[jimrtex]

Indiana goes 11-0 for Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM-qLhhK204

CSPAN cut in late while the electors were signing. All 6 certificates of vote have to be wet-signed by all 11 electors. A really bad sound system, and every so often it would pick up the ring tone of a cell phone. The press were confined to a balcony, and would shout out a question like it was a press conference. The electors were seated at tables about 10 feet apart, two per table, and two assistants were passing the certificates row to row, like it was an offering. The assistants would turn around and look up at the reporter as if they might answer through their mask. Finally the SOS would say that they could ask questions after the meeting. After verifying that all the certificates had been signed, the SOS announced she would entertain a motion to adjourn. A motion was made, and the SOS announced the adjournment. I think the sound and video cut off in the middle of "is adjourn-"

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

Pence is legally compelled to open anything claiming to be a certificate of electors, and Congress is legally compelled to accept whatever originates before the safe harbor deadline, i.e. the only swing state where even a lockstep GOP Senate caucus (which we almost certainly won't have--Romney/Murkowski/Collins are not going to vote for a Trump coup!) could force a Trump slate is Wisconsin. Even then they'd have difficulty doing so given that the Wisconsin executive is all Democrats.

[Tender Branson]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from day PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Counting Electoral Votes: An Overview of Procedures at the Joint Session, Including Objections by Members of Congress -- a clear, thorough description of the entire process, from the Congressional Research Service.

[Gass3268]

Delaware's 3 votes are in for Biden/Harris.

[Tender Branson]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

[GeorgiaModerate]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

That is correct.  I strongly recommend reading the document I posted above if you have any questions about the procedures to be used.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

That's the tiebreaking consideration if nothing originates from before safe harbor, yeah. Since Wisconsin was the only state to miss safe harbor, that might end up making the difference between 296 and 306, but only if Romney/Murkowski/Collins behave wildly out-of-character.

The only realistic hope for anything other than an agonizingly drawn-out certification of the election for Biden is if the Electoral Count Act is ruled unconstitutional within the next three weeks, but I think the federal judiciary has amply shown just how willing it isn't to carry water for Trump's antidemocratic bellyaching.

[Tender Branson]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

That is correct.  I strongly recommend reading the document I posted above if you have any questions about the procedures to be used.

That document is 19th century bureaucrat-English ... I don’t understand half of what’s in there.

[Mike88]

Much more practical, under the current circumstances:

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1338522917362077699

[Gass3268]

Wisconsin is good to go:

https://twitter.com/sbauerAP/status/1338529371284500480?s=20

The justices were all over the place on the decision, so still waiting for what the vote was.

[Tender Branson]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

That's the tiebreaking consideration if nothing originates from before safe harbor, yeah. Since Wisconsin was the only state to miss safe harbor, that might end up making the difference between 296 and 306, but only if Romney/Murkowski/Collins behave wildly out-of-character.

The only realistic hope for anything other than an agonizingly drawn-out certification of the election for Biden is if the Electoral Count Act is ruled unconstitutional within the next three weeks, but I think the federal judiciary has amply shown just how willing it isn't to carry water for Trump's antidemocratic bellyaching.

Why do you say WI missed the safe harbour (DEC. 8th) deadline ?

WI certified on November 30:

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-wisconsin.pdf

[GeorgiaModerate]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

That is correct.  I strongly recommend reading the document I posted above if you have any questions about the procedures to be used.

That document is 19th century bureaucrat-English ... I don’t understand half of what’s in there.

Really?  I think it's very clear, but I suppose it helps that I'm a native English speaker.  Having >40 years experience with government/corporate bureaucratic language probably doesn't hurt either.

[Gass3268]

Oh my, it looks like it was 4-3 in Wisconsin. Not even debatable that this was the closest we came from the will of the voters being overturned. Horrific!

[Tender Branson]

What is the actual process on January 6th, when Pence counts the votes in a joint session ?

Assuming a 52-48 GOP Senate and a 222-213 DEM House.

I know there can be objections, but is it actually Pence who decides what is counted and what not, or do the members of Congress also have an influence ?

Can they veto Pence if he picks the alternative Trump electors to be counted instead of the actual electors for Biden ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

The Senate will be 51-48 because Perdue's term will have expired by Jan. 6 so his seat will be vacant. The Georgia runoffs surely will not be certified in time for the electoral vote counting.

Indeed, in one case from 1889, papers sent as a "practical joke" have been presented to the joint session. Whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper is an open question, but one commentator argues that concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president's decision upheld.

So, if Pence presents 2 sets of electors from say PA and the Senate and House disagree which to count and Pence insists on the Trump „certificate“, this will be counted ?

No.

Only those with the signatures of the Governor and SoS on it are accepted and counted ?

Therefore no alternative Trump slates.

That is correct.  I strongly recommend reading the document I posted above if you have any questions about the procedures to be used.

That document is 19th century bureaucrat-English ... I don’t understand half of what’s in there.

Really?  I think it's very clear, but I suppose it helps that I'm a native English speaker.  Having >40 years experience with government/corporate bureaucratic language probably doesn't hurt either.

Plz post the 3-5 most important points out of there in normal English.

[Crumpets]

Wisconsin is good to go:

https://twitter.com/sbauerAP/status/1338529371284500480?s=20

The justices were all over the place on the decision, so still waiting for what the vote was.

According to Free Republic, this is good news for Trump and he'll win the state now. No joke.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3915329/posts

[DrScholl]

Oh my, it looks like it was 4-3 in Wisconsin. Horrific!

Winning those court races in the past few years really has proven to have been critical.

[Devils30]

Wisconsin is good to go:

https://twitter.com/sbauerAP/status/1338529371284500480?s=20

The justices were all over the place on the decision, so still waiting for what the vote was.

According to Free Republic, this is good news for Trump and he'll win the state now. No joke.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3915329/posts

The left should look into recalls for these 3 wingnuts.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Wisconsin is good to go:

https://twitter.com/sbauerAP/status/1338529371284500480?s=20

The justices were all over the place on the decision, so still waiting for what the vote was.

According to Free Republic, this is good news for Trump and he'll win the state now. No joke.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3915329/posts

Ugh o well, at least we still have 296 electoral votes...

[brucejoel99]

Tender:

Congress is required to accept & count every EC slate from states which certified prior to (or on) the safe-harbor deadline. That's 49 states & DC, which amounts to 296 EVs for Biden & 232 EVs for Trump which Congress is already required to accept & count.

The only state that wasn't able to certify on time was Wisconsin (as a result of ongoing litigation preventing the final certification from taking effect), but in any event, even if a Trump slate of GOP electors from Wisconsin somehow manifests out of nowhere, Pence would still not have any real power, as it would be up to the Senate & the House to decide which slate to accept: the fake Trump one, or the real Biden one. If they split over which of the 2 competing slates of electors to count (they wouldn't, but they theoretically could), the slate certified by Governor Evers (e.g. the real Biden one) will prevail.

Long story short: Biden won, Biden is winning, & Biden will continue to win.

[Tender Branson]

How many faithless votes so far ?