Opinion of Affirmative Action

[jerusalemcar5]

There needs to be more choices.  I agree on a theoretical level.  There is no question white people put minorities in their current positions and we should help bring them out.  Yet on the other hand I don't believe a black girl with a 2.2 GPA should desvre to get in over a white guy with a 3.7.  Therfore, I'd support it if the other GPA or w/e was equal of slightly less than the white guy.  So I guess it is support, but to a certain extent.

[AkSaber]

I have never liked it since the first time I heard of it. Which was 3 years ago last month.

[Alcon]

Strongly oppose

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Completely opposed, but I'm speaking here in terms of race-based affirmative action.  If I had my way, I would eliminate the "race" box from all standardized tests and applications for colleges and jobs.  Race should play no role in who is chosen for a position; it should be based strictly on merit.  Honestly, I don't think "diversity" should matter when a school or employer is choosing people from an applicant list.

You are an FF on that.

[Ebowed]

I proceeded to tell him that a non legislated and non race form of affirmative action was used to get the son of a prominent politition into Yale, because we know it wasn't his brains that got him in.

Why do you oppose one form of affirmative action, but support another?  Can't you see the harmful effects of giving preference based not only on family/geneology, but also race and ethnicity?  They are two very similar reasons to use in affirmative action.

[Ebowed]

Strongly favor.  It is the most efficient and straightforward way to make minorities and women economically equal to white men in this country.

No, the most efficient and straightforward way to do that would be to tell white men that they are worthless because of the crimes of their fathers and grandfathers, and proceed to only allow minorities and women to have access to high level education for a generation or two.

Regardless of what affirmative action method you use, it's also very efficient in breeding racism.  I heard about one black guy who got into a university in Texas without affirmative action and was proud of the fact that people couldn't say that he got in just because he was black.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Instead of trying to "equalize" or accomate multicultural ideas we should focus on assimilating minorities. By that I mean doing socieconomic based affirmative action combined with a program of cracking down on actual criminals, jobs programs and doing investments in research and developments to get more technologies so we canbetter use american workers. Yes, affirmative action is horrible but if we have more social mobility by means of my program, it would speed up the end of people caring abotu race by a generation or so.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.
2nd--it was an example--I appologize if it was offensive to any African Americans--it applies to poor white people too.  You can go to public school and try hard, and get to college--apply for scholarships--my point is, why discrminate against worthy people?

[jerusalemcar5]

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.
2nd--it was an example--I appologize if it was offensive to any African Americans--it applies to poor white people too.  You can go to public school and try hard, and get to college--apply for scholarships--my point is, why discrminate against worthy people?

Oh please.  That makes a lot of sense.  Go to school and life is great! yay! Maybe in your fantasy land.  These people work hard and a lot of parents work long shifts to support their kids so they can't get home to kids.  6 year olds grow up without a role model and by the time they are 14 it is too late.  They didn't make that honors class so they couldn't do this  or whatever and then it is all downhill.  So, they most, they;d give up without having that stroing force to hold them up.  You don't think as a 6 or 7 year old exactly how your life should work out and think exactly what you need to do.  Also, scholarships don't always cover all costs.  They are given very seelctively and only to the extremely poor.  So kids who may be poor, but their family is above the cut are stuck.  Going to college is not easy.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.
2nd--it was an example--I appologize if it was offensive to any African Americans--it applies to poor white people too.  You can go to public school and try hard, and get to college--apply for scholarships--my point is, why discrminate against worthy people?

Oh please.  That makes a lot of sense.  Go to school and life is great! yay! Maybe in your fantasy land.  These people work hard and a lot of parents work long shifts to support their kids so they can't get home to kids.  6 year olds grow up without a role model and by the time they are 14 it is too late.  They didn't make that honors class so they couldn't do this  or whatever and then it is all downhill.  So, they most, they;d give up without having that stroing force to hold them up.  You don't think as a 6 or 7 year old exactly how your life should work out and think exactly what you need to do.  Also, scholarships don't always cover all costs.  They are given very seelctively and only to the extremely poor.  So kids who may be poor, but their family is above the cut are stuck.  Going to college is not easy.

So why discriminate against the person who deserves to get into college?

[jerusalemcar5]

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.
2nd--it was an example--I appologize if it was offensive to any African Americans--it applies to poor white people too.  You can go to public school and try hard, and get to college--apply for scholarships--my point is, why discrminate against worthy people?

Oh please.  That makes a lot of sense.  Go to school and life is great! yay! Maybe in your fantasy land.  These people work hard and a lot of parents work long shifts to support their kids so they can't get home to kids.  6 year olds grow up without a role model and by the time they are 14 it is too late.  They didn't make that honors class so they couldn't do this  or whatever and then it is all downhill.  So, they most, they;d give up without having that stroing force to hold them up.  You don't think as a 6 or 7 year old exactly how your life should work out and think exactly what you need to do.  Also, scholarships don't always cover all costs.  They are given very seelctively and only to the extremely poor.  So kids who may be poor, but their family is above the cut are stuck.  Going to college is not easy.

So why discriminate against the person who deserves to get into college?

Affirmative action is not extreme enough to amount to discrimination.  it simply favors (in most cases) fairly equal white and black students and picks the black one.  Hardly discrimnation.  If whites were losing out to black kids with SAT scores of 1000 (new SAT) and GPA of 1.5 when they have a GPA of 2.75 and an SAT score of 2300, then we'd have an issue.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.
2nd--it was an example--I appologize if it was offensive to any African Americans--it applies to poor white people too.  You can go to public school and try hard, and get to college--apply for scholarships--my point is, why discrminate against worthy people?

Oh please.  That makes a lot of sense.  Go to school and life is great! yay! Maybe in your fantasy land.  These people work hard and a lot of parents work long shifts to support their kids so they can't get home to kids.  6 year olds grow up without a role model and by the time they are 14 it is too late.  They didn't make that honors class so they couldn't do this  or whatever and then it is all downhill.  So, they most, they;d give up without having that stroing force to hold them up.  You don't think as a 6 or 7 year old exactly how your life should work out and think exactly what you need to do.  Also, scholarships don't always cover all costs.  They are given very seelctively and only to the extremely poor.  So kids who may be poor, but their family is above the cut are stuck.  Going to college is not easy.

So why discriminate against the person who deserves to get into college?

Affirmative action is not extreme enough to amount to discrimination.  it simply favors (in most cases) fairly equal white and black students and picks the black one.  Hardly discrimnation.  If whites were losing out to black kids with SAT scores of 1000 (new SAT) and GPA of 1.5 when they have a GPA of 2.75 and an SAT score of 2300, then we'd have an issue.

Discrimination is discrimination I don't care if the difference is 100 and .1--its' still discrimination!

[jerusalemcar5]

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.
2nd--it was an example--I appologize if it was offensive to any African Americans--it applies to poor white people too.  You can go to public school and try hard, and get to college--apply for scholarships--my point is, why discrminate against worthy people?

Oh please.  That makes a lot of sense.  Go to school and life is great! yay! Maybe in your fantasy land.  These people work hard and a lot of parents work long shifts to support their kids so they can't get home to kids.  6 year olds grow up without a role model and by the time they are 14 it is too late.  They didn't make that honors class so they couldn't do this  or whatever and then it is all downhill.  So, they most, they;d give up without having that stroing force to hold them up.  You don't think as a 6 or 7 year old exactly how your life should work out and think exactly what you need to do.  Also, scholarships don't always cover all costs.  They are given very seelctively and only to the extremely poor.  So kids who may be poor, but their family is above the cut are stuck.  Going to college is not easy.

So why discriminate against the person who deserves to get into college?

Affirmative action is not extreme enough to amount to discrimination.  it simply favors (in most cases) fairly equal white and black students and picks the black one.  Hardly discrimnation.  If whites were losing out to black kids with SAT scores of 1000 (new SAT) and GPA of 1.5 when they have a GPA of 2.75 and an SAT score of 2300, then we'd have an issue.

Discrimination is discrimination I don't care if the difference is 100 and .1--its' still discrimination!

Everyone uses discrimination.  It may be based on someone's intelligence, character, race, religion, history, and other actors.  that .1 and 100 discrimination is a big factor in weeding out the really bad stuff.

[??????????]

Well, I am against govt sponsored racism, therefore I strongly oppose AA.

[Ebowed]

Affirmative action is not extreme enough to amount to discrimination.  it simply favors (in most cases) fairly equal white and black students and picks the black one.  Hardly discrimnation. 

"Fairly" equal?  So being black amounts to a few extra SAT points?

[ian]

Strongly favor.  It is the most efficient and straightforward way to make minorities and women economically equal to white men in this country.

No, the most efficient and straightforward way to do that would be to tell white men that they are worthless because of the crimes of their fathers and grandfathers, and proceed to only allow minorities and women to have access to high level education for a generation or two.

Regardless of what affirmative action method you use, it's also very efficient in breeding racism.  I heard about one black guy who got into a university in Texas without affirmative action and was proud of the fact that people couldn't say that he got in just because he was black.

Efficiency doesn't typically include extreme measures of disrupting society.  But maybe my definition of "efficient" doesn't match your own.
Racism happens whether or not there is Affirmative Action or not.  In fact, I would take the view of just the opposite of your point.  I think Affirmative Action discourages racism; racism's main point is that black people are inferior.  When all races are equal in education and in the workforce, there is no basis for the inferiority argument.

Also,

Absolutely oppose.  IT is the minorities fault that they got themselves in their predicaments, and it is their responsibility to get themselves out.  Colleges should not reject people like me, because some poor African American with a GPA 1 pt. below mine, "has to be let in."

But not all poor people "get them self in that predicament." Some might get laid off or born into poverty ect... Also who said it has to be an African American? Hispanics, Women, Native Americans, Asians are minorities. 

1st--they can pull themselves out.

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever seen.  You clearly have no idea what it's like to be caught up in a situation like many of the minorities in our country have faced, including poverty, bad neighborhoods, crime, and the cycle of ill ends perpetuated by relatives, neighbors, and friends that are prominent in the ghettos of the United States.
I recommend leaving your cozy suburb to travel to these areas to see how easy it is to "pull themselves out".

[Tory]

You clearly have no idea what it's like to be caught up in a situation like many of the minorities in our country have faced, including poverty, bad neighborhoods, crime, and the cycle of ill ends perpetuated by relatives, neighbors, and friends that are prominent in the ghettos of the United States.
I recommend leaving your cozy suburb to travel to these areas to see how easy it is to "pull themselves out".

Very well said

[dazzleman]

As of today, I oppose it.  The process has run its cycle and the benefit of the program has long since left.  It is more of a hindrance today than a benefit and should be scrapped.

I think you're right, MODU. 

This has been one of the issues about which I have been most ambivalent, because I know first-hand that when it comes to hiring, people usually favor those they can relate to best, and that's usually not a person of a different race.

Still, at a certain point, programs like affirmative action create more problems than they solve, and breed a dependency and weakness among the program's 'beneficiaries' while creating a strong, and not wholly unjustified, suspicion of the talents and abilities of those who have benefited from it.  The idea that it should be permanent is really abominable; the question is not whether to end it, but when and how.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Affirmative action makes a lot of people not want black doctors.  A lot of good that does for racism.

If it's helping them so much, then how come only 2.5% of doctors are black?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Affirmative action makes a lot of people not want black doctors.  A lot of good that does for racism.

If it's helping them so much, then how come only 2.5% of doctors are black?

First of all, that statistic seems very exaggerated and second of all the point was that many people don't trust minority professionals because they're not sure they're actually qualified.  What exactly is your point?  Who is what helping and where did I say it was helping people?

No, the statistic is right, it's somewhere around 2.5% maybe 3%. Well, certain bigotted NJ Republican might not trust black doctors....

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Affirmative action makes a lot of people not want black doctors.  A lot of good that does for racism.

If it's helping them so much, then how come only 2.5% of doctors are black?

First of all, that statistic seems very exaggerated and second of all the point was that many people don't trust minority professionals because they're not sure they're actually qualified.  What exactly is your point?  Who is what helping and where did I say it was helping people?

No, the statistic is right, it's somewhere around 2.5% maybe 3%. Well, certain bigotted NJ Republican might not trust black doctors....

I find that hard to believe.  I also still fail to see the connection between that statistic and what I said.  And if you're trying to insinuate that I have a problem with black doctors, that's just pathetic.  Of course, arguing with you, I should have kept in mind that you are incapable of arguing the issues and preventing yourself from using silly attacks like a little girl.

No, it really is that low, and because of that I think there is just plain racism going on here. If every black who wanted got to become a doctor, it'd be a hell of a lot higher than 2.5%-3.%.

[Ebowed]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

[Ebowed]

I think Affirmative Action discourages racism; racism's main point is that black people are inferior.  When all races are equal in education and in the workforce, there is no basis for the inferiority argument.

Actually, by telling minorities that they need a little extra help getting into education and the workforce (i.e. that their skin color results in a better overall resume), we are continuing to tell them that they are inferior and always will be.  Affirmative action is disgusting.

[True Democrat]

Oppose, though I might favor income based.

[??????????]

No, jfern, he's right.  In general, people are less likely to prefer black doctors because they're afraid they got in because of a quota, regardless of how valid these fears are.  It's a fairly serious problem, and it may even discourage blacks from entering the medical profession.

How many American doctors do you know anyways? Most of the general practice doctors I encounter these days are Indian.