Missile Test & U.S. Response to N. Korea

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I saw a US News Article today on the internet w/ people's comments and was curious what you all think.
Personally I think we should start a Ground/Air War, and I think we will (if they test a missile).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

OK--somebody didn't get it--in the 1st 5 you vote for what you think we should do.  In the 2nd 5 options, what we will do.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's kinda hard to implement US sanctions on a country which we already have sanctions on. 

My point was keep them on them--announce the sanctions to the media more.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No response/probably no response

Let them test all they want, they have absolutely zero interest in nuking the USA.  If they did, they'd be finished.  Kim knows this and isn't dumb enough to go nuking superpowers.

Then why build missile that can reach us?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Tell the Japanese its their problem! Have them change their constitution and rearm. They have kicked ass before let them do it again.

So what happens if you get Japan involved, then they're left open to China--who has threatened Taiwan recently.  If they're bold enough to threaten U.S.-backed Taiwan, what's stopping them from invading an off-to-war-in-Korea Japan-->starting WWIII?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

One alternative might be declaring North Korea a "No Fly Zone."  Anything that goes up comes down, hard.

It's a good idea, but enforcing it would mean occupying N. Korea-->WAR!

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

One alternative might be declaring North Korea a "No Fly Zone."  Anything that goes up comes down, hard.

It's a good idea, but enforcing it would mean occupying N. Korea-->WAR!

Not necessarily.  You can use "stand off" weapons.  Keep in mind that they are effectively violating foreign airspace when they send a missile over Japan, or worse yet, the US.

Another alternative might be to detonate conventional explosives over North Korea.  Harmless, but more than enough to demonstrate to NK that there is a massive retaliation possibility.  It also has the benefit of letting the peasants see it.  Kim might suddenly fear a mutiny of his armed forces.  This could be coupled with knocking state radio off the air with a more powerful signal.  That's the "stick."  We could offer some "carrots" as well.

True; however the only way that Kim will back down is if there is a gun pointed at his head.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No response/probably no response

Let them test all they want, they have absolutely zero interest in nuking the USA.  If they did, they'd be finished.  Kim knows this and isn't dumb enough to go nuking superpowers.

Then why build missile that can reach us?

To try to bring us to the negotiating table.

To accomplish what--we won't give in to anything.  The only thing it can do to them is get Kim killed.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Here's Japan's proposed response:

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[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I say Boss Tweed is correct. Kim Jong Il has no intention of launching nuclear weapons at the United States. If he did so, our ABMs could shoot them down (in theory) and the combined retaliation from the United States, the United Nations, South Korea, and Japan would reduce North Korea into rubble.

My biggest fear is that North Korea could give nuclear weapons to terrorists. Therefore, if N. Korea tests a missile, we should retaliate against North Korean missile sites with airstrikes (similar to Iraq in 1998 for violation of UN resolutions).

North Korea's only retaliatory option would be against South Korea, and if they crossed the demilitarized zone, they'd bring in the entire United Nations and initiate a full-scale war, which they'd ultimately lose.

Your points seem logical, but since when has Kim Jong Il acted according to logic?  I see Kim as completely unpredictable, and in the end, ultimately stupid--he just wants to see how far he can get, but eventually he's gonna get melted.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Here's the latest NK news, w/ a prediction of a response (in bold and italics--added by me):

Bush, Koizumi warn N. Korea against launching missile

WASHINGTON (AP) — Side by side, President Bush and Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi warned North Korea on Thursday to cancel any plans to test-fire a long-range missile, with Bush bluntly calling a launch unacceptable and Koizumi hinting at the punishment that would result.
"The leader of North Korea is just going to have to make a decision," Bush said at a joint news conference with Koizumi that followed two hours of Oval Office discussions. "Does he want to be isolated from the world or is he interested in being an active participant in the nations of the world?"

DIPLOMATIC DUET: Bush, Koizumi sing in White House love fest | Video

Koizumi said he and Bush discussed what actions would be taken if Pyongyang followed through on its apparent preparations to launch a Taepodong-2, which has a range that could reach Alaska or perhaps the U.S. mainland.

"We would apply various pressures," Koizumi said through a translator. "I believe it is best that I do not discuss what specific pressures we were talking about."

From a South Lawn arrival featuring trumpet fanfare and canon fire to a gala black-tie dinner of Kobe beef raised in Texas, Bush and Koizumi celebrated five years of friendship. Koizumi leaves office in September, depriving Bush of one of his most ardent defenders on the world stage.

The prime minister is a huge fan of Elvis Presley, and Bush on Friday will take Koizumi to Memphis for a private tour of the late singer's estate, Graceland.

"Officially he's here to see the president," Bush said, "but I know the highlight of his visit will be paying his respects to the king." Bush gave Koizumi a juke box loaded with Elvis songs.

Koizumi had a line of his own ready: "Thank you very much, American people," he said at the end of the news conference, "for 'Love Me Tender.'"

At an East Room news conference, neither Bush nor Koizumi said what consequences North Korea might face for a missile test. Diplomatic condemnation is the most likely first response, followed by targeted economic sanctions and possibly a United Nations Security Council resolution. Japan has said it would consider food sanctions against North Korea, a stance that goes against U.S. policy.

Intelligence reports began detecting activity related to a test-firing about two weeks ago, and it remained unclear how far along the preparations are. Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said Thursday that "there are a variety of assessments as to whether a launch will occur and, if so, what type of launch it will be."

Bush demanded that North Korean leader Kim Jong Il let the world know his plans. "There have been no briefings as to what's on top of the missile. He hasn't told anybody where the missile's going," the president said.

He added: "Launching the missile is unacceptable."

The words on North Korea were about the only tough talk from Bush and Koizumi throughout a day of elaborate ceremony that put their virtually tension-free alliance — and their personal friendship — front and center.

Bush effusively applauded decisions under Koizumi's watch to lift a ban on U.S. beef imports, realign American troops in Japan and help confront North Korea over its nuclear weapons programs.

"You've had a remarkable tenure as the prime minister of your country," Bush said. "You have led with courage. You have made hard decisions. You've helped us change our relationship so that Japan and the United States will be able to work even closer together in the 21st century."

But it was Koizumi's decision to send Japanese troops to the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq that got the most attention from Bush. He was notably candid that the support shaped his positive view of the leader like nothing else.

For Koizumi's benefit, Bush reprised several times his take, now familiar to anyone who hears the president's speeches, on the transformation in the U.S.-Japanese relationship, from a time when the American president's father fought the Japanese to 60 years later when Bush and Koizumi collaborate on spreading democracy.

"It strikes me as just amazing," Bush said. "A lot of people take it for granted. I don't. Because 60 years ago, we were at war."

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

North Korea vows nuke response to U.S. attack
Posted 7/4/2006 1:49 AM ET
  MISSILE CONCERNS MOUNT
 Washington warns N. Korea on 'provocative activity'
 SEOUL (AP) — North Korea vowed on Monday to respond with an "annihilating" nuclear strike if its atomic facilities are attacked pre-emptively by the United States.
The Bush administration responded sternly, saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.

"Should North Korea take the provocative action of launching a missile the U.S. would respond appropriately, including by taking the necessary measures to protect ourselves," State Department spokeswoman Julie Reside said.

Still, Reside said, the United States and other countries that have negotiated with North Korea are seeking a fundamentally different relationship with the reclusive regime. She said that relationship must be based on the complete and verifiable elimination of North Korea's nuclear weapons and nuclear program.

Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.

"They have heard from just about everybody in the international community, including China, including Russia, that that would be not only extremely unwise, it would be opposed by all the countries in the world," Burns said in an interview with C-SPAN scheduled for airing Sunday.

"Our advice to the North Korea is to come back to the six-party talks," he added.

The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.

The North's warning effectively stepped up its customary anti-U.S. vitriol, in which it often accuses Washington of plotting an attack. The North has recently come under heightened scrutiny after reports by the United States and Japan that it has taken steps to prepare for a test of a long-range missile.

The North's Korean Central News Agency, citing an unidentified "analyst" with the state-run Rodong Sinmun newspaper, accused the United States of harassing Pyongyang with war exercises, a massive arms buildup and increased aerial espionage by basing new spy planes in South Korea.

"This is a grave military provocation and blackmail to the DPRK, being an indication that the U.S. is rapidly pushing ahead in various fields with the extremely dangerous war moves," the dispatch said.

"The army and people of the DPRK are now in full preparedness to answer a pre-emptive attack with a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war with a mighty nuclear deterrent," the report said.

DPRK stands for the North's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

The report concluded by urging the U.S. to "get out of South Korea promptly." About 29,500 U.S. troops are stationed in South Korea as a deterrent against the communist North.

On Friday, Pyongyang accused the United States of driving the situation on the Korean Peninsula "to the brink of war," and said it is fully prepared to counter any U.S. aggression.

Washington and Japan have said in recent weeks that spy satellite images show North Korea has taken steps to prepare a long-range Taepodong-2 missile for a test-launch.

Estimates for the range of the missile vary widely, but at least one U.S. study said it could be able to reach parts of the United States with a light payload.

Speculation that Pyongyang could fire the missile has waned in recent days, however, since the country's top ally and a major source of its energy supplies, China, publicly suggested North Korea should not to go ahead with the test.

A news report said Monday that China has offered a new proposal over the stalled six-party talks.

Chinese State Councilor Tang Jiaxuan told Ichiro Ozawa, the head of Japan's main opposition party, that China had relayed the proposal to Japan, the two Koreas, the United States and Russia, Kyodo News agency reported, citing party officials.

The report did not elaborate on the proposal. An opposition party spokesman in Tokyo could not be reached for comment. Ozawa is in Beijing for a six-day stay that party officials hope will include a meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao, according to Kyodo.

The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses. Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.

The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.

While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.

Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

NBC just interupted--they tested!

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Landed 600km from the Japanese mainland.

It was not however, the long range missle that has been monitored.

I know--but still, I find it very ironic that Kim did this on the 4th of July.  He is testing the U.S. and he's gonna find himself dead.

USA Today (Juno's homepage news) doesn't have a article yet.  Working on getting some details.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

US reaching ICBM launched--ABC reporting.  I believe 2-stage, but could be 3.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

This is honestly amazing in my mind--I never really thought this would happen.  It was always back there in my mind and I was facinated w/ teh CMC (did a report on it), but never really thought something like that would happen in my life, and now it is.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Information from CNN:

Four missiles launched (none reached land)

If you ask me this is just North Korea saying "Hey don't forget us" and the US will probably reply "I'm sorry, did somebody speak?"

The ICBM broke up 40 secs. after launch

NK is saying Bring it on, and the U.S. is gonna say, "Ya, here's what we have"-->BOOM!

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Do people want me to start a new topic for NK, or just leave this one?  We should probably get it Stickied (but that's not necessary yet, since its at the top & 1/2 the forum is reading it--at least they were when I checked "Who's Online").

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The NK's might have destroyed the missile because it was heading for its own territory.

Huh?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I wish Kim Jong Il a happy 4th of July and good luck with his nuclear missle testing.

Yeah, you're right.  Maybe we should show him how it's done. 

Ya, but he wouldn't be tall enough to see over the crowd of people watching our missile come in.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm going to assume that these 2 fighter jets that keep circling over here have nothing to do with this and are part of some 7/4 celebration...

Since I don't think either of the ICBM's can reach TX, probably.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

USA Today article: North Korea test-launches long-range missile despite U.S. warnings

North Korea test-launches long-range missile despite U.S. warnings

TOKYO (AP) — A defiant North Korea test-fired a long-range missile Wednesday that may be capable of reaching America, but it failed seconds after launch, U.S. officials said. The North also tested four of shorter range in an exercise the White House termed "a provocation" but not an immediate threat.
Ignoring stern U.S. and Japanese warnings, the isolated communist nation carried out the audacious military tests even as the U.S. celebrated the Fourth of July and launched the space shuttle.

None of the missiles made it as far as Japan, all crashing into the Sea of Japan separating the island from the Korean Peninsula, officials said.

"We do consider it provocative behavior," U.S. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said.

Both Japan and South Korea protested. Japan called for an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting. South Korea said the tests would further deepen its neighbor's international isolation.

"We will take stern measures," said chief Japanese government spokesman Shinzo Abe, adding that economic sanctions were a possibility. He said the launch violated a longstanding moratorium, and that Tokyo was not given prior notification by Pyongyang.

The U.S. administration reacted quickly but made it clear that its response would not involve military action.

President Bush consulted with Hadley, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The State Department said Rice conferred with her counterparts from China, Japan, South Korea and Russia.

"It wasn't that he (the president) was surprised because we've seen this coming for a while," Hadley said. "I think his instinct is that this just shows the defiance of the international community by North Korea."

He said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, which failed 35 seconds after launch. Experts believe the missile — North Korea's most advanced with a range of up to 9,320 miles — could reach the United States with a light payload.

The State Department said the smaller missiles includes Scuds, which could target South Korea, and Rodongs, which has a range of about 620 miles and could target Japan.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported as many as 10 missiles may have been launched, but officials could not confirm that.

The launch came after weeks of speculation that the North was preparing to test the Taepodong-2 from a site on its northeast coast. U.S. and Japanese officials said six missiles were fired in all, launched over a four-hour period beginning about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday (2:30 p.m. Tuesday ET).

Meanwhile, the North American Aerospace Defense Command — which monitors the skies for threats to North American security — went on heightened alert, said NORAD spokesman Michael Kucharek.

"The safety of our people and resources is our top priority," Kucharek said.

If the timing is correct, the North Korean missiles were launched within minutes of Tuesday's liftoff of Discovery, which blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral in the first U.S. space shuttle launch in a year.

Hadley suggested the tests might have been an attempt to grab the international spotlight.

"It's very difficult to know what the North Koreans think they are doing this for," Hadley said. "Obviously, it is a bit of an effort to get attention, perhaps because so much attention has been focused on the Iranians."

North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials. North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.

North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999. It shocked the world in 1998 by firing a Taepodong missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean.

On Monday, the North's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst as saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."

The Bush administration responded by saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.

On Monday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.

The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.

The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses. Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.

The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.

While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.

Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea.
____________________________________________________________
It's been quiet for the past few hours.  This was updated at 10:10.  To my knowledge a press conference has not been called.  Is it pretty much in agreement that the 4th of July date was intentional?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Drop a few bombs on their country, but unfortunately with China in the council, we will not be able to put sanctions on NK.

Naturally.  That whole area is heating up.  2--6 was the predicted year for China to invade Taiwan.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

From USA Today this morning: World condemns N. Korea missile tests



World condemns N. Korea missile tests

By Lee Jin-man, AP
South Korean protesters burn a picture of depicting North Korean leader Kim Jong Il and North's flags during an anti-North Korea rally in Seoul on Wednesday.

SEOUL (AP) — North Korea test-fired a seventh missile Wednesday, intensifying the furor that began when the reclusive regime defied international protests by launching a long-range missile and at least five shorter-range rockets earlier in the day.
The missiles, all of which apparently fell harmlessly into the Sea of Japan, provoked international condemnation, the convening of an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council and calls in Tokyo for economic sanctions against the impoverished communist regime.

North Korea remained defiant, with one official arguing it had the right to such launches. The tests and the impenitent North Korean attitude raised fears that further firings could follow.

VIDEO: N. Korea tests 7th missile

North Korea's state-run media did not mention the missile tests but a commentator on its Korean Central Broadcasting Station said the country's "military and people are fully prepared to cope with any provocation and challenge by U.S. imperialists."

"Maintenance of peace in our country is entirely made possible by our strong war deterrent," the announcer said, adding that without it, the North would have suffered a "cruel nuclear disaster."

An official at the South Korea Joint Chiefs of Staff confirmed that North Korea had tested a seventh missile that was either short- or medium-range. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of agency rules.

Japan's Kyodo News agency reported that the missile landed six minutes after launch, but did not say where. The chief of Russia's general staff said that Russian tracking systems showed that Pyongyang may have launched up to 10 missiles during the day, the Interfax news agency reported.

U.S. officials said North Korea fired a long-range Taepodong-2 early in the day, but that it failed shortly after takeoff, calling into question the technological capability of North Korea's feared ballistic missile program. Pyongyang last fired a long-range missile in 1998.

The bold firings came under close international scrutiny of the North's missile launch facilities. The North American Aerospace Defense Command monitored the launches as they progressed but soon determined they were not a threat to the United States, a spokesman said.

Some feared more firings. Pyongyang could test more missiles soon despite the international outcry, Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said after making a protest via telephone to North Korea's ambassador.

"We think they probably do intend to launch more missiles in the next day or two," Downer told reporters, without explaining if the possibility of more tests came up in his talk with ambassador Chon Jae Hong.

South Korea, separated from the North by the world's most heavily armed border, said the test-launches would further deepen its neighbor's international isolation, sour public opinion in the South toward Pyongyang, and hurt efforts to control weapons of mass destruction.

The tests, which came as the United States celebrated the Fourth of July and launched the space shuttle Discovery, appeared timed to draw the most attention from Washington. Some speculated that Pyongyang wanted some of the spotlight that was focused on Iran's nuclear program.

"North Korea wants to get the U.S. to direct bilateral negotiations by using the missile card," said Paik Hak-soon, a North Korea expert at the Seoul-based Sejong Institute. "Timing the launch date on July 4 is an attempt to apply maximum pressure on the U.S. government."

A North Korea Foreign Ministry official told Japanese journalists in Pyongyang that the regime there has an undeniable right to test missiles.

"The missile launch is an issue that is entirely within our sovereignty. No one has the right to dispute it," Ri Pyong Dok, a researcher on Japanese affairs at the North's Foreign Ministry, said on footage aired by Japanese television network TBS. "On the missile launch, we are not bound by any agreement."

Japanese broadcaster NHK reported that an unidentified Foreign Ministry official in Pyongyang acknowledged the tests, but Ri told reporters that diplomats such as himself are unaware of what the military is doing.

In Russia, Interfax quoted the army chief of staff, Gen. Yuri Baluyevsky as saying the number of missiles fired by North Korea could be higher than the six cited by the U.S., Japan and South Korea.

"According to various data, 10 missiles were launched. Some say that these were missiles of various classes; however, some claim that all missiles were intercontinental," Baluyevsky was quoted as saying in the Russian Far East city of Chita.

Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso warned of a "very high possibility" the U.N. would level economic sanctions against North Korea. Japan also protested the launches officially through the Chinese capital, and banned a North Korean ferry from Japanese ports for six months.

He also said North Korea may face harsher sanctions from Tokyo depending on Pyongyang's actions. Japan has already prohibited North Korean officials from traveling to the country and has barred a trade boat from entering Japanese waters.

The tests followed weeks of mounting speculation that North Korea would launch a Taepodong-2. U.S. intelligence reports indicated Pyongyang was taking steps to prepare for a launch, but the timing was unknown. North Korea refused to confirm the preparations, but insisted it had the right to such a test.

The test was likely to cast a pall over efforts to lure North Korea back to stalled six-party talks on its nuclear weapons program. Pyongyang has boycotted the negotiations to protest a U.S. crackdown on alleged North Korean counterfeiting and other financial crimes. A North Korean official said Wednesday his country would stand by that stance.

Diplomatic moves over North Korea gathered pace. U.S. nuclear envoy Christopher Hill was to leave Washington for the region later Wednesday, and the launches coincided with a trip by South Korea's security chief to Washington for consultations. China's vice-premier was also scheduled to go to Pyongyang next week.

China, North Korea's neighbor and most important ally, urged all parties to remain calm.

"We are seriously concerned with the situation which has already happened," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said in a statement on the ministry's website.

"We hope that all the relevant sides ... do more things which are conducive to peace and stability ... and not take any actions to escalate and complicate the situation," the statement said.

Two State Department officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 9,320 miles. Some experts believe it could reach the United States with a light payload.

North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials. North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.

North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I wish Kim Jong Il a happy 4th of July and good luck with his nuclear missle testing.

Yeah, you're right.  Maybe we should show him how it's done. 

Guys, give Kim a break...he needs platform shoes for christsakes.

Ahah.

Don't waste a perfectly good weapon on Kim.

We could use an old worthless nuke on him, but the only bad thing would be if it malfunctioned--we'd have a Godzilla Kim Jong Il...wait...big & Kim Jong Il--not making sense here.

While we're making fun of him:
Why does Kim always pay with Credit Cards?  B/c when he pays w/ cash he always comes up short.

Yah, I know, that last one was lamer than FDR (no offense Mr. President).