PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[MT Treasurer]

The biggest danger for Fetterman is that what used to be "Gee, Oz is an embarrassment" quickly turns into a "Gee, I can’t stand/listen to either of them, I’ll just hold my nose and go with the one whose party I want to control the Senate" situation.

Oz lacks empathy (we already knew that) but he obviously came across as more 'Senatorial' than Fetterman, which doesn’t help if your campaign's main focus is painting Oz as uniquely unqualified for the job.

[BenjiG98]

Hot take but this debate will change nothing and people will forget about it by election day as with pretty much every other debate in the last 6 years.

[ProgressiveModerate]

The debate was bad for Fetterman.

But I'm going to focus on right now the seething hatred for disabled people in this thread, shame on you all. I'm not sure how you look yourselves in the mirror and be comfortable with what you see, with your disgusting, utterly revolting attacks on some of the most vulnerable in our society, and people in recovery. Shame, shame on you.

Yeah lowkey this makes me slightly angry as well.

I'm autistic and as a consequence have a slight speech arrythmia. If I ever ran for public office (I don't plan on doing so but just hypothetically), I feel like it'd be very unfair to hammer me for it given it's something I can't control. I'm otherwise an extremely competent individual.

Fr at school so many people write me off because of it and it's just messed up.

[henster]

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden endorses Lamb, assuming he endorses anyone in the primary.

Biden said the Lamb reminds him of his son Beau, which he also said about Buttigieg.

While he is more moderate than Fetterman or Kenyatta, he wouldn't be another Manchin or Sinema. He'd be more like a Booker, Klobuchar, or Gillibrand.

Biden will likely stay out of the race. Now Casey? His endorsement will be crucial if he decides to.

As for Lamb, the issue I see for him is his stance on energy. His support for natural gas could cost him in Chesco/Delco where there have been numerous problems with the Mariner East pipeline. Fetterman has flip-flopped on it since he won the Lt. Governor race in '18, rather disappointing imo.

Nostraslimeus is here all week children

The best thing Biden could've done is appoint Fetterman to some cabinet position in early 2021 clearing the field for Lamb. If Fetterman loses there's going to be a lot of finger pointing of what higher ups did and didn't do to prevent this.

[Green Line]

Hot take but this debate will change nothing and people will forget about it by election day as with pretty much every other debate in the last 6 years.

Debates don't matter at all.  But what else is there to do.

[Sestak]

The abortion line was pretty stupid in a state like Pennsylvania. Obviously Roe isn't going to be the only issue in the election, but saying abortion should be "between a woman, her doctor, and local political leaders" is very stupid. Got to imagine that gem ends up in some late ads.

Ultimately that will determine who “won” the debate. Who can make the most ads from it. There’s enough material for the Fetterman campaign for the next 13 days.

Exactly. Unless I'm badly mistaken, basically nobody watches non-Presidential debates live. They are mostly important as a mine for opposition ads in the event of a candidate ing up. Plenty of material after today. I don't think anyone will deny that Oz won the debate, but he may not have done enough to actually win this race given his own issues.

I don't think this is completely true...the tone that the news runs with it in the morning will filter a lot further out than viewers of the debate itself. You can argue, of course, that said narrative would've been negative for Fetterman no matter how the debate went, but still, anecdotes that don't look good can go a long way.

Being able to take good clips from it does help counter this in the long run, of course. Two weeks left is not a huge amount of time but it isn't nothing either. That being said, just because a good clip exists doesn't mean it's going to be effective. Fetterman's campaign has work to do if they want to present it effectively.

[Roll Roons]

https://twitter.com/Nedfoley/status/1585073811833360384?cxt=HHwWgMDQkfuOqP8rAAAA

My thoughts exactly.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/CautiousLefty/status/1585076264825925632?s=20&t=Y_lukMg7...

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden endorses Lamb, assuming he endorses anyone in the primary.

Biden said the Lamb reminds him of his son Beau, which he also said about Buttigieg.

While he is more moderate than Fetterman or Kenyatta, he wouldn't be another Manchin or Sinema. He'd be more like a Booker, Klobuchar, or Gillibrand.

Biden will likely stay out of the race. Now Casey? His endorsement will be crucial if he decides to.

As for Lamb, the issue I see for him is his stance on energy. His support for natural gas could cost him in Chesco/Delco where there have been numerous problems with the Mariner East pipeline. Fetterman has flip-flopped on it since he won the Lt. Governor race in '18, rather disappointing imo.

Nostraslimeus is here all week children

The best thing Biden could've done is appoint Fetterman to some cabinet position in early 2021 clearing the field for Lamb. If Fetterman loses there's going to be a lot of finger pointing of what higher ups did and didn't do to prevent this.

I don't think Lamb would necessarily win in this environment either.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

The best thing Biden could've done is appoint Fetterman to some cabinet position in early 2021 clearing the field for Lamb. If Fetterman loses there's going to be a lot of finger pointing of what higher ups did and didn't do to prevent this.

Don't let this distract you from the fact that henster has done nothing but attack Fetterman in this entire thread.

Very likely he supports Dr. Oz.

[South Dakota Democrat]

Some of you are just absolutely awful people.  Like, awful.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

I don't think Lamb would necessarily win in this environment either.

Well of course not. But Blue MAGA will always jump at the chance to take a seat away from their true enemies. Even if it means six years of Dr. Oz.

[Aurelius]

Fetterman talked about his stroke and recovery in a way I think a lot of people, including most persuadables, will sympathize with. But that won't necessarily be enough. There were some *really* rough moments. The abortion comment was a big own goal for Oz (and it reminds me of Trump's foot-in-mouth moments when someone who doesn't really care about abortion misunderstands the internal logic of how his base thinks about it, tries to play along, and sounds like a fool). But people already know he's an arrogant prick. He's been on TV since before many of us were born. So I bet that part is already baked in.

[Eraserhead]

Didn't watch but was this the only debate?

[Aurelius]

Didn't watch but was this the only debate?

Yes.

[Continential]

Didn't watch but was this the only debate?

Yes.

[South Dakota Democrat]

Didn't watch but was this the only debate?

Yeppers.

[Gracile]

Hot take but this debate will change nothing and people will forget about it by election day as with pretty much every other debate in the last 6 years.

Not that hot of a take (and I agree). I'm a bit shocked this debate is generating so much attention.

[Calthrina950]

Fetterman talked about his stroke and recovery in a way I think a lot of people, including most persuadables, will sympathize with. But that won't necessarily be enough. There were some *really* rough moments. The abortion comment was a big own goal for Oz (and it reminds me of Trump's foot-in-mouth moments when someone who doesn't really care about abortion misunderstands the internal logic of how his base thinks about it, tries to play along, and sounds like a fool). But people already know he's an arrogant prick. He's been on TV since before many of us were born. So I bet that part is already baked in.

Oz's abortion comment certainly was his worst misstep, although I understand what he was saying. But on balance, Fetterman's missteps probably outweighed Oz's, and it's obvious, between this, the rumors about his wife or some other person being appointed in his place if he wins, and his refusal to release his health records, that Fetterman's health is in worse shape than has been publicly admitted by him.

[Ferguson97]

Relatively surprised that some non-Dems are agreeing that Oz didn't look that good either.

Georgia was an obvious dub for Democrats and Arizona didn't really matter, but is Nevada having a debate?

[Sestak]

Hot take but this debate will change nothing and people will forget about it by election day as with pretty much every other debate in the last 6 years.

Not that hot of a take (and I agree). I'm a bit shocked this debate is generating so much attention.

No baseball.

[Person Man]

Some of you are just absolutely awful people.  Like, awful.

It’s very possible that after the last 7 years, we’re all going to hell.

[Aurelius]

Relatively surprised that some non-Dems are agreeing that Oz didn't look that good either.

Georgia was an obvious dub for Democrats and Arizona didn't really matter, but is Nevada having a debate?

I'm a partisan hack in my voting, but I try not to be in my #analysis. It can be hard to separate the two but those who can are usually the best posters on here. Watching the debate via clips on Acyn's feed and following the reactions of a bunch of Media Matters fellows is not going to give a full picture of how it went down.

[KaiserDave]

Oz definitely won the debate there's no doubt about it in my mind. Will it matter? It's certainly possible. I'm just totally disgusted with the strange nasty people here on Atlas who seem to think its a good use of their time to insult disabled people and those in recovery on the internet. Have you ever had a friend, or a relative, who had a stroke, or a stutter, who is autistic, or a disability? Just, have basic empathy, or at least keep your nastiness to yourself. Shame, shame on you.

[Aurelius]

Hot take but this debate will change nothing and people will forget about it by election day as with pretty much every other debate in the last 6 years.

Not that hot of a take (and I agree). I'm a bit shocked this debate is generating so much attention.

World famous TV star vs guy who just had a stroke and may soon be in an important office and lots of people want to see just how good/bad he's doing.