PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

Politics is about perception not reality, Fetterman can be framed as an elitest using things like his Harvard education and reliance on family funds. His politics is also pretty left-wing and leaves him vulnerable to whisper campaigns.

I want to rewind on this post again. LOL.

How the heck do you look at Fetterman and think Harvard-educated elitist? Most of politics, as you note, is optics and he just.... looks like a union dude. He physically is just so different from every other Senator. He does not give off any indication of being some trust fund baby.

PS. This is going to sound elitist of me, but he didn't go to Harvard for undergrad, so it's kind of whatever. The MPP isn't as susceptible to the bribe your way in vibes of undergrad.

Physical appearance don't matter, this is the same fallacy as republicans thinking their minority candidates will overperform with that demographics. His Harvard degrees is an opening the gop can use to frame him as a paternalist elitest faking a working class image to get elected

[GALeftist]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

Politics is about perception not reality, Fetterman can be framed as an elitest using things like his Harvard education and reliance on family funds. His politics is also pretty left-wing and leaves him vulnerable to whisper campaigns.

I want to rewind on this post again. LOL.

How the heck do you look at Fetterman and think Harvard-educated elitist? Most of politics, as you note, is optics and he just.... looks like a union dude. He physically is just so different from every other Senator. He does not give off any indication of being some trust fund baby.

PS. This is going to sound elitist of me, but he didn't go to Harvard for undergrad, so it's kind of whatever. The MPP isn't as susceptible to the bribe your way in vibes of undergrad.

Physical appearance don't matter, this is the same fallacy as republicans thinking their minority candidates will overperform with that demographics. His Harvard degrees is an opening the gop can use to frame him as a paternalist elitest faking a working class image to get elected

Tom Wolf went to Dartmouth and still won Luzerne. There doesn't seem to be a lot of empirical evidence to suggest that Ivy League = WWC hates and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks Wolf is more working class than Fetterman

[The Houstonian]

You all realise this man chassed down a black man in 2013 with a shotgun because he was jogging right?  Like why are you cheering him on?

You say this without acknowledging that a) he heard gun shots in the area, b) he saw a man running in the opposite direction wearing a face mask and goggles, and c) he never drew the shotgun or pointed it at the man. Without these details, it sounds like he hunts black people for sport, which is the opposite of the truth here.

You know there is also a video right?  which no gunshot can be heard.  And truthfully if that is your first reaction to grab a shotgun and chase someone down I just don't think I can trust you.

Where's the video?

[GALeftist]

You all realise this man chassed down a black man in 2013 with a shotgun because he was jogging right?  Like why are you cheering him on?

You say this without acknowledging that a) he heard gun shots in the area, b) he saw a man running in the opposite direction wearing a face mask and goggles, and c) he never drew the shotgun or pointed it at the man. Without these details, it sounds like he hunts black people for sport, which is the opposite of the truth here.

You know there is also a video right?  which no gunshot can be heard.  And truthfully if that is your first reaction to grab a shotgun and chase someone down I just don't think I can trust you.

This is just not true. The man in question also says that he heard what sounded like gunshots but asserted they were bottle rockets. Also, I couldn't find a video of the incident, closest I could find was a story on local TV (which is where the victim said he heard bottle rockets).

My (unrequested) take: I doubt race was a part of it, it's clear from the interview that it's unlikely that Fetterman would have been able to see any of his skin since he had a mask on. Frankly, I'm more concerned that his response to this whole situation was to apprehend the guy himself rather than wait for the police. That said, I don't think that this is disqualifying or anything and it's certainly not the big scandal that KHive is making it out to be.

[GoTfan]

I don't live in PA but PASS. Rooting for Conor Lamb if he gets in.

It's not about policy with you. It's about the fact Fetterman supported Sanders, which in your eyes, is a sin that damns someone to hell for eternity. That's all it ever is with you.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

This is being blown way out of proportion. His kid was outside and he thought he heard gunshots so he ran out with a shotgun. That seems pretty reasonable. Plus, the guy was wearing a mask. I'm not getting the whole "racial profiling" thing here.

[Calthrina950]

I don't live in PA but PASS. Rooting for Conor Lamb if he gets in.

Conor Lamb is a fraud. He voted against a bill to federally decriminalize marijuana because he felt it was a waste of time. Talk about living in the past.

I'm not a staunch progressive, so I'm not going to jump into that angle of the argument. But didn't Lamb underperform Biden last year? This doesn't give me confidence that he would be any better than Fetterman at winning this race for the Democrats.

[brucejoel99]

You all realise this man chassed down a black man in 2013 with a shotgun because he was jogging right?  Like why are you cheering him on?

You say this without acknowledging that a) he heard gun shots in the area, b) he saw a man running in the opposite direction wearing a face mask and goggles, and c) he never drew the shotgun or pointed it at the man. Without these details, it sounds like he hunts black people for sport, which is the opposite of the truth here.

You know there is also a video right?  which no gunshot can be heard.  And truthfully if that is your first reaction to grab a shotgun and chase someone down I just don't think I can trust you.

This is just not true. The man in question also says that he heard what sounded like gunshots but asserted they were bottle rockets. Also, I couldn't find a video of the incident, closest I could find was a story on local TV (which is where the victim said he heard bottle rockets).

Something something facts, something something feelings.

[Rookie Yinzer]

I don't live in PA but PASS. Rooting for Conor Lamb if he gets in.

It's not about policy with you. It's about the fact Fetterman supported Sanders, which in your eyes, is a sin that damns someone to hell for eternity. That's all it ever is with you.

Imagine thinking I give a damn about Bernie Sanders in 2021. LOL. Anyway I don't live in PA, why I do or don't support Fetterman should be irrelevant to you.

[sguberman]

Can someone go and track down the jogger he see what he thinks?

[KaiserDave]

Me, a Cartwright supporter, sitting awkwardly this entire time:

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I don't live in PA but PASS. Rooting for Conor Lamb if he gets in.

Conor Lamb is a fraud. He voted against a bill to federally decriminalize marijuana because he felt it was a waste of time. Talk about living in the past.

Of all things, that’s your beef with Lamb?  He didn’t virtue signal on a marijuana bill that was never gonna pass?  Seriously?

[Holmes]

I really don’t care about marijuana but “the bill didn’t even pass so who cares how he voted?” is such sh**tty hand wringing.

[Barack Oganja]

If y'all like Fetterman that's fine but you're trying wayyy to hard to make the jogger incident out to be nothing, when I know for a fact people wouldn't be if he was a republican. Private citizens shouldn't be acting like police, how many times have we seen that go wrong. You can argue that it's not disqualifying without defending the action.

[Barack Oganja]

This is being blown way out of proportion. His kid was outside and he thought he heard gunshots so he ran out with a shotgun. That seems pretty reasonable. Plus, the guy was wearing a mask. I'm not getting the whole "racial profiling" thing here.

Chasing someone down and detaining them when you're not a police officer is pretty reasonable lol y'all get blinded by these politicians personas so easily

[GALeftist]

If y'all like Fetterman that's fine but you're trying wayyy to hard to make the jogger incident out to be nothing, when I know for a fact people wouldn't be if he was a republican. Private citizens shouldn't be acting like police, how many times have we seen that go wrong. You can argue that it's not disqualifying without defending the action.

I haven't seen anyone say that it's nothing ITT, and I'd agree that people should not pursue justice like this on their own, but I have seen others make implicit comparisons to the murder of Ahmaud Arbery which misses the point both of why what Fetterman did was problematic and what the tragedy of Arbery's death was.

[Barack Oganja]

If y'all like Fetterman that's fine but you're trying wayyy to hard to make the jogger incident out to be nothing, when I know for a fact people wouldn't be if he was a republican. Private citizens shouldn't be acting like police, how many times have we seen that go wrong. You can argue that it's not disqualifying without defending the action.

I haven't seen anyone say that it's nothing ITT, and I'd agree that people should not pursue justice like this on their own, but I have seen others make implicit comparisons to the murder of Ahmaud Arbery which misses the point both of why what Fetterman did was problematic and what the tragedy of Arbery's death was.

There's definitely a lot of rationalization in this thread "he heard gunshots", "he didn't point the gun at the guy" vs a simple "he was wrong but I think we can move on"

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

This is being blown way out of proportion. His kid was outside and he thought he heard gunshots so he ran out with a shotgun. That seems pretty reasonable. Plus, the guy was wearing a mask. I'm not getting the whole "racial profiling" thing here.

Chasing someone down and detaining them when you're not a police officer is pretty reasonable lol y'all get blinded by these politicians personas so easily

I agree that he shouldn't have gone vigilante, but the issue still isn't as big as it's being made out to be.

If you thought your kid was in danger, you probably would've done the same thing in the heat of the moment.

[Sestak]

Anyway, this is going to have about as much effect as the Joe Biden racism attacks. Especially since it's the exact same people (#KHive et. al.) doing it.

[Badger]

I’m still praying with every fiber of my being for a Cartwright Senate run.  I am highly biased because I’m from NEPA, but c’mon, TWO Senators and a President from #BlueCollar #CoalMining #Populist Scranton?  NUT

(Also, Cartwright is just a really decent human being, from every interaction I’ve had with him and his team)

Nah. I have no problem with a senator Cartwright, but I'd prefer a senator fetterman no to Lemoore. Besides, Cartwright running would make his congressional seat likely to flip.

[Badger]

It's real simple Pennsylvania Democrats. Shapiro for governor, fetterman for Senate, lamb for attorney general. Clear the freaking primary field if you want any chance in November because it's a Biden midterm.

Shapiro for Governor is correct, but Fetterman should run for re-election as LG (or Doyle’s seat if he retires). He’s the guy you run when you expect a Democratic wave year like 2018.  

Cartwright should be our nominee for Senate and if not him, then even Lamb is probably a safer choice than Fetterman this cycle for several reasons (I don’t think we should run Lamb either b/c I suspect he might try some Manchin/Sinema BS re: opposing nuking the filibuster):

1) PA is not a Berniecrat-friendly state as far as statewide races go; 2) Fetterman has never won a GE for anything in his own right higher than Mayor of Braddock, PA so he’s pretty untested compared to our other options; 3) There is no evidence that Fetterman has any special appeal in a key region (in fact, he has no real track record of electoral success beyond winning a clown car LG primary largely b/c the geographical base breakdown of an incredibly fractured field was exclusively to his advantage); 4) There is reason to think Lamb and especially Cartwright would over-perform generic D in key regions based on their past election results

Cartwright is an over-performer in a tough region who has proven crossover appeal despite not being a ConservaDem.  He’s got some progressive views, but also hasn’t branded himself as a Berniecrat (or an establishmentarian).  I just don’t see how, logically speaking, we’d be better off running an untested candidate who has never won a competitive GE for Congress or statewide office in a state that in a Democratic President’s midterm just b/c Fetterman has gotten a lot of hype from the #RoseTwitter crowd.  

As for the others, AG would probably be a step down for Lamb unless he’s given an unwinnable district.  Houlihan is basically generic D imo, speaking of potential candidates.  

TL;DR: At a bare minimum, Fetterman should face a serious primary opponent if only to get a better sense of whether the hype is actually warranted before it’s too late to go with someone else.  We have a strong bench; why roll the dice on an untested candidate when we could run a proven over-performer who still has at least some very progressive positions on issues like healthcare (I.e. Matt Cartwright).

I really don't see how running for State Attorney General is anything but a clear promotion, let alone a step down, from a congressional seat. Especially given the seat in question is one lamb will continuously have to fight to defend. Not that Pennsylvania is Comfortably Democratic, but it's not as marginal overall as his seat.

[Left Wing]

I’m still praying with every fiber of my being for a Cartwright Senate run.  I am highly biased because I’m from NEPA, but c’mon, TWO Senators and a President from #BlueCollar #CoalMining #Populist Scranton?  NUT

(Also, Cartwright is just a really decent human being, from every interaction I’ve had with him and his team)

Nah. I have no problem with a senator Cartwright, but I'd prefer a senator fetterman no to Lemoore. Besides, Cartwright running would make his congressional seat likely to flip.

Either him or Wild is getting drawn out so that won’t really be an issue.

[Badger]

Ok what prevents the republican from sticking that messaging to him, run ads about his wealthy background and about his left-wing policies, how will he respond to the ads calling him a phony ?

He didn’t have a “wealthy” background. He grew up middle class and has always been middle class. He can respond by saying it was easier for a kid like him to get into Harvard back in the 80s because he didn’t have to worry about going into extreme debt or choosing between college and supporting his family because college has become prohibitively expensive for kids without actually rich parents. He can even talk about the white privilege afforded to kids who grow up middle class who can go to good schools but not minority students because of systemic racism. There, I just knocked out 2 of his main campaign talking points in response to one (dumb) attack ad.

And frankly, the fact he has a degree in heart from Harvard makes it easier to sell to upper-middle-class Philly Suburban types that he's not just some tattooed oik who would embarrass the state in the Senate.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1358860650924150790

Mega endorsed

[The Houstonian]

You have two seconds to guess this man's race. If you get it wrong, a Kamala stan on Twitter will accuse you of racial profiling.

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