AOC [doesn’t] posts worst result in NY-14 in 25 years

[free my dawg]

BREAKING NEWS: National figures are more polarizing and get less votes than local figures. Film at 11.

[free my dawg]

it's just memes brahs

[free my dawg]

It is extremely telling that some in this thread are choosing to just attack the OP for posting numbers of how much Omar underperformed Biden in her own CD rather than actually addressing the underperformance.

It's very telling how TopShelfGoal (R-WA) has displayed more vitriol towards the left than he ever did against Trump or any Republican. MacArthur and Alben hate the left too, but at least they come at the right with the same energy. TopShelfGoal (R-WA) literally said he'd support Republican control of the government if it meant the left would be destroyed.

Almost like he's always been a closet Republican all along.

[free my dawg]

I don't even want to imagine the privilege it takes for you to be a Democrat who's able to afford 4 years of GOP control.

[free my dawg]

It's very telling how TopShelfGoal (R-WA) has displayed more vitriol towards the left than he ever did against Trump or any Republican. MacArthur and Alben hate the left too, but at least they come at the right with the same energy. TopShelfGoal (R-WA) literally said he'd support Republican control of the government if it meant the left would be destroyed.

Almost like he's always been a closet Republican all along.

There you go again accusing those who disagree with you of being Republicans. I have never said I support R control of government.

I believe your words speak for themselves:

If it wasn’t Trump and was Kasich or Cruz running I actually wouldn’t have minded Bernie getting the nominee so that he would get blown off the field and take our House majority down with him so that we can get rid of Left Wing Sarah Palin and her Reddit friends.

100%. I wish some wealthy Democratic donor would organize a campaign to primary all these so called "Justice Democrats" and get rid of them in favor of saner people. I want them all out of congress.

I don't need to accuse you of being a Republican. You do a very good job of that yourself.

If you look at my posting history it is clear I hate Republicans.

Except the Lincoln Project, who quite recently continued to support Republicans downballot who didn't Openly embrace Trump.

Again - nowhere in your posting history did you call Republicans the enemy of America that Deb Fischer or whatever anonymous GOP senator nobody knows outside of Politicalworld is the gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats. It's not about how many posts you've made - it's about the energy behind the posts.

Looking through your posting history, it's generic criticism (the worst I found was you saying ACB was a hack) for the Trump people and vitriol and wishes of total destruction for the left. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to say you have a greater opinion of Republicans than you do the left.

I did not say a negative word about AOC and the far left until the election (infact I will delete my account if you can find an anti-left post from me prior to election night). But after the election when it became clear that their rhetoric cost us votes and they still were continuing to repeat that rhetoric with the Senate literally hanging in the balance in GA, something needed to be said.

No, you didn't say anything negative about AOC and the far-left before this happened. You always felt a certain way about the left, but never said it until something "needed to be said".

You have built me up as some sort of anti-left boogeyman in your head but I don't have vitriol or hate towards the far left. Frankly I don't really care about the policies Democrats pursue, I only care about winning elections and defeating Republicans. If it was proven that "Murder all kittens" is a policy that would help Democrats win elections, I'd support the DNC adopting "Murdering all kittens" as an official policy let alone "Green new deal". The fact is that some of the rhetoric used by these people is hurting Democratic chances at the ballot box. Esp so in Georgia- the state that is going to decide the Senate control and which doesn't seem to have a lot of patience for these policies.

I think it's very funny how you put your tribalistic, sports-esque view of politics aside if it means owning the Justice Democrats. I don't need to try and prove that because again - you do a perfectly good job of proving it yourself.

So forgive me for having no patience for the irresponsible politicians who were still talking about the "Green New Deal", "Defund the police" knowing full well about the upcoming GA elections.

You can do so all you want.

Where I start to get nasty is when you advocate for Republican control over leftist control. And when you advocate for GOP control over leftist control, you're no better than a Republican yourself.

[free my dawg]

I don't even want to imagine the privilege it takes for you to be a Democrat who's able to afford 4 years of GOP control.

Putting words in my mouth again, I have been fully supportive of all Democratic candidates. Infact you have been the one equivocating your support for Democrats going forward. I believe you posted you would consider voting 3rd party in one of these threads if the Democrats didn't give you what you wanted policy wise!

And, of course, you conveniently left out the post after where I said it was unlikely I would vote third-party, or the reasons. It's a good thing for Democrats that I don't expect much ideologically.

Ideologically, I'm fine with conservative Democrats in the right districts. I'm not gonna expect Joe Manchin or Conor Lamb to support the Green New Deal or any sort of environmentalist policy. I'm not gonna expect Max Rose to defund the police. I am probably voting straight-ticket in 2022, because Chris Pappas and Maggie Hassan are solid enough representatives for me. I still voted for Dan Feltes, even though I thought he was an awful candidate, because he was solid ideologically. I could have thrown away my vote in the gubernatorial race for a cheap laugh on here, but I chose not to.

I like Kamala Harris. I think her supporters are the other side of the "Bernie Bro" coin and the silence on that front tells a lot about the Democratic Party's attitudes towards the left, but I'm not going to let that spoil a good candidate. I've even given her some slack on being the top cop!

I like Joe Biden. I don't expect the cabinet to look like Fox News's nightmare world (losing the primary took away with that), but I'm glad that he's actively taking the word of progressives into consideration. I'm starting to tolerate Buttigieg, who wasn't concerned with police brutality until he had a national profile. In fact, the only candidate I wouldn't explicitly vote for in 2024 is Cuomo, who I don't support because he's willing to sacrifice the party for his own personal ambitions.

The point I made when I "conditionalized my vote" was that Democrats are burning bridges with a piece of the party that they can't afford to burn bridges with. I'm extremely alienated from the Democratic Party because of attitude, not ideologically. I think they're much closer to you on the subject than Joe Biden, and I think our President's attitude is an aberration and not a new course. If I'm even considering it, no matter how infinitesimal it is, it's a red flag to how far and how much 2016 has f***ed this party up.

At the end of the day, it's unlikely because I know what's at stake. I'd probably have a different view if I was in Massachusetts or Vermont, but I don't. I vote blue because I have the privilege of a swing state vote, and there are many people who can't afford another four years of Trump.

I am a straight cis-gendered upper-middle class male with steady employment and an in-demand skillset who lives in a very liberal city in a very liberal state. There is very little policy-wise that can happen federally that is going to affect me directly. Even if things go completely belly up, I hold Canadian dual citizenship (originally from there) and can always move. So there is not a lot of incentive for me to care. I care primarily about beating the Republicans first and foremost, everything else is secondary. Beyond that I care about policies that in the long run will increase the prosperity and happiness of most number of people.

You, on the other hand...

[free my dawg]

The point of that post was that a candidate that uses the rhetroic of the justice dems that people like AOC so desperately want would lose anyways (considering how poorly some of the stuff they emphasize polls) so if they lost against someone like Kasich/Romney/Huntsman, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as it would atleast for the next 4-5 election cycles rid the Democratic Party of the elements that make unpopular statements that cause Democrats to lose votes and elections.

Which means you don't mind Republican rule. Which is 4 years of Trump's agenda, given how Romney was okay with everything Trump did.

Therefore, you are a Republican. This is not debatable.

LP supported Democratic candidates, spent tens of millions of dollars in support for Democratic candidates and continue to support Democratic candidates in the Senate control tipping GA January elections. I'll take  support wherever I can get and not impose ridiculous purity tests. I don't care what they have done in the past, if even Voldemort or Darth Vader wanted to support Democrats getting elected by spending 10s of millions of dollars I'd accept their support instead of looking a gifthorse in its mouth.

LP spent 70million+ trying to get Democrats elected at every level. I am not going to say no to that or disavow their support just because some LP staffer tweeted support for an R candidate in some irrelevant downballot race in NH.

Ah yes - irrelevant downballot races in New Hampshire like *ahem* the governor's race. Which was competitive in 2018, and this "random staffer" (who's a well-known executive!) openly endorsed, despite tacking to the Republican line for the first term.

Since then, I've found out Horn actually continued to praise Sununu in 2020. While she continued to support Pappas, she was pretty clearly in Sununu's corner, explicitly drawing a contrast between him and Trump. This hurt Democratic performance down the ballot.

In case you haven't heard, I think the Lincoln Project are a bunch of frauds. They dislike Trump, but they don't mind Trump's agenda, per se. They just don't like that Trump is more overt about trying to destroy democracy than, say, Chris Sununu. They don't like that he openly wants to end Roe v. Wade, unlike John Kasich. They liked Trump's politics and his attitude when it benefited them. Now, they're standing against them because they don't get to have a seat at the table anymore.

Considering you seem to think "vote blue no matter who" is an "absurd purity test", it certainly doesn't help your case.

AOC and her crew are not "the left". I have a poor opinion of them because they don't seem to care about how their words and actions affect the odds of Democrats controlling levers of powers. They keep repeat unpopular rhetoric when the senate majority hangs in the balance and don't seem to show any humility from the result of the 2020 election downballot. Brian Schatz and Elizabeth Warren are as left as anyone in the congress and I haven't criticized them. They are good team players and try to avoid rhetoric that polls poorly. Unlike the people I have been criticizing who seem to only care about likes, retweets and being edgelords.

Putting aside the fact that you're a Republican trying to gatekeep who's a part of the "left" and who isn't, ideology gets to determine who's a part of the left. Not who you like and who you don't like.

It's extremely Atlas brain to suggest that some random Senator nobody knows outside of the leftosphere said "Green New Deal" is going to cost elections. The voters of Georgia don't care about what Ed Markey is thinking. The voters of New Hampshire don't care what Deb Fischer is thinking.

I'd also argue that Warren isn't a "good team player". A leftist, sure, but someone who is more concerned with advancing her own prospects than enacting leftist policy. You can easily contrast her Gabbard-esque decision to continue her campaign past Nevada with Buttigieg dropping out when he was still a top-tier candidate to unite behind Biden. And we haven't even gotten into her exaggeration of a clumsily-worded statement Bernie made, which was pretty blatantly made in retaliation for a campaign mailer. Speaking as an actual leftist, I'd vote for Kamala over her, mainly because Kamala would try to beat us in a bare-knuckle fight instead of stab us in the back.

And we haven't gotten into Warren's unpopularity because of her inability to relate and her recent lean into "woke politics". I think it's very funny that the people pearl-clutching about wokism don't realize that the party establishment is just as unafraid to take unpopular positions with regard to wokism.

The interesting thing to me is (and this exchange proves it) is that folks like you whenever presented with legitimate criticism of their heroes (like AOC/Omar/Tlaib running far behind Biden in their own districts) resort to attacking the person presenting the criticism rather than actually engaging with the points made on substance. If the rhetoric of these people is costing them votes in their own very blue districts they should have more of a sense of responsibility knowing what they say effects people in much redder districts who don't have the luxury of running 10+ points behind the top of the ticket.

Right, the guy who *flips through notepad* made an actual rebuttal to the argument a few pages ago, is unable to make a rebuttal to the argument. People on the national stage, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and (to a lesser degree) Omar, are lightning rods and will attract more attention, despite it being a hopeless race. The same principle as to why people invested in Amy McGrath and Jaime Harrison applies here: AOC and Omar are boogeymen, and a competent campaigner will be able to take advantage of that. 

In the case of Omar, the Legal Marijuana Now party also siphoned away votes from her. Low-information voters who would normally vote for the Democrat saw Legal Weed and voted for their candidate.

I'm actually not thrilled about Omar for obvious reasons, and I'm perfectly cognizant of AOC's flaws. She's not even my first choice for 2024! I just don't like when people throw out bad analysis in the name of sowing disunity, and I especially don't like it when it's coming from a Republican concern troll like you. 

It's ironic that everything you've accused me of doing, you've done yourself. You've put words in my mouth and transfixed your beliefs of the left onto me. You've conveniently cherry-picked arguments, put words in my mouth, and twisted what I've said to fit your narrative.

In short, you know you can't land a hit on me, and you know your behavior is sowing disunity, so you've resorted to empty whataboutery and strawmen to distract from it all.

[free my dawg]

The Legal weed now party share was higher in MN 5th than anywhere else, a lot of it was a valid form of protest votes against Omar not just low info voters. Infact the suburban super rich precincts had the worst performance for Omar relative to Biden. There was some Biden+40 precinct that Omar lost in Edina!!. To be fair this precinct is insanely upscale, such that even Klobuchar's 2018 performance was behind Biden's

https://twitter.com/BHIndepMO/status/1331648686070267905

But LOL at the idea it was "low info"voters. These people knew who Omar was and they accordingly voted against her by either choosing the Republican or 3rd party.

Alternatively, it could be both. It could be low-information voters, and it could be a coalition of different people.

Either way, Ilhan Omar is a much more unique case where her controversy is far beyond her political beliefs and I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually underperforming.

[free my dawg]

If you haven't learned how nationalized politics is in 2020 after this election than I can't help you. Every race is nationalized and voters seem to vote on party brand rather than local candidates and talking about stuff that polls poorly before the GA elections hurts Democratic chances. Republicans will attribute Green New Deal to Warnock/Ossoff and their attacks would be made so much easier due to some members of congress continue to talk about it. You feel the reflexive need to defend these people but it is undeniable that they are not helping the Democratic cause of taking the senate.

Again - since you didn't seen to get it this time - Ed Markey is not nationally known. To most Georgians, he's one of 98 anonymous Senators. AOC is a national figure. Ilhan Omar, to a lesser degree, has a national profile. Ed Markey does not have a national profile.

He was anonymous back then, was anonymous even when he ran against Kennedy, and will continue to be anonymous because AOC is the public face of the GND movement. It's extremely Atlas brain, and quite frankly, stupid to suggest that the voters are so in-tune with politics that they care about some Senator from Massachusetts's opinion. 
 

I would take Elizabeth Warren any day over the likes of Markey/AOC. Warren is as left as anyone in the congress (perhaps even more) but has the common sense to not make those views public and give Republicans more ammo when senate literally hangs in the balance. Even Sanders seems to understand this. And no I am not shedding any tears over her not dropping out prior to Super Tuesday to make life easier for Bernie. She had every right to compete in those Super Tuesday states.

You've done absolutely nothing to refute my argument. Her having a right to do what she did doesn't erase the abject selfishness of her actions in the primary. I don't think she's a Trojan horse or that she's going to stab us in the back. However, what she did (on multiple occasions!) helped take Bernie's campaign down with her, and she'll sow the fruits of that endeavor if she runs in 2024.

It's amazing that you are using the "low info voter" to defend Omar's numbers. Biden faced Libertarians and Greens two parties with the exact same position on Marijuana legalization and he did not see such a dropoff. She ran 28 points behind Biden in the Edina part of her district which consists of an extremely upscale suburb. https://twitter.com/NortonMpls/status/1329055236569276416 You think these people are low info voters?

Per my last post, I do think it's a combination of both things. I think her positions on M4A, GND, and defund the police have less to do with her underperformance than her criticisms of Israel do, but that's just me.

Anyways you continue to use ad-hominem attacks, there is nothing productive coming out of this discussion so I am done with it.

I don't need to use ad hominem attacks. I'm exposing you, using your own words, for what you are: a wolf in sheep's clothing who's more concerned with making the left tap out than winning elections. Even if it means bringing back our national nightmare for four more years.

Every single time you try to make a comment in Democratic affairs, I'll be reminding everyone where you stand. I'd focus on my own party's affairs before concern trolling in Democrats'.

[free my dawg]

It's rich that someone who has openly pontificated about voting 3rd party and whose signature says "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party told me to leave." is telling others whether they are Democrats or not.

Let's see: I've volunteered on the ground for Democrats every cycle I could, you sit here on an random Internet forum going off on unhinged rants about you'd rather have Mitch McConnell and Marjorie Taylor Greene in control of the government than Ed Markey and AOC.

I'm more of a Democrat than you ever will be, kid. And nothing you can say or do will ever change that.

[free my dawg]

Can we not turn this into a Dem civil war? Ultimately, while I'm personally not a fan of her, she held up fine in her district, and the top of the ticket (Biden) underperformed too. I can cherry pick specific instances of strong and weak progressive performances, as well as strong and weak performances of more moderate Democrats. Ultimately, there are some districts where more moderate canidates bode better and others where progressives bode better. The real problem for us Democrats going forwards is our national branding as we're a very ideologically diverse party at this point in time. Ultimately, I'm not a huge fan of AOC for a large variety of reasons, but instead of signaling her out, let's take a look at the deeper problems of why we underperformed expectations and try to come up with a way that we can coexist.

I would love to. I thought my response to MacArthur would have been fine.

Unfortunately, there's another Republican agent (maybe NYCMM's latest bit?) in the thread ****ting it up.