AOC [doesn’t] posts worst result in NY-14 in 25 years

[Intell]

Alright guys I’d vote for the legal weed candidate in Omar’s district- it’s not an issue of Omar- I sure as hell would vote for Omar against a Republican

[coloradocowboi]

Omar is undeniably toxic. She's definitely a unique case.

I mean duh, she's a Black hijabi immigrant and this is a racist, sexist, xenophobic, and Islamophobic country. It's very easy to fearmonger using her image.

Her race and religion are irrelevant to why she’s toxic. There are also numerous reasons to dislike her that have nothing to do with her identity.

This is why I can't take you people seriously. Just go to her Twitter and look at the comments underneath every single one of her posts. Look at the racist memes circulating about her in every corner of the internet.

Is it the *only* reason? No, and I didn't say that. But your inability to recognize that it impacts how she is perceived and represented in the media is the exact kind of knee-jerk defensiveness that makes me think it's probably the central issue most people have with her. Y'all doth protest too much

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/greggiroux/status/1333260842138284032

Tlaib ran only 0.7% behind Biden  and actually slightly better by total margin.

[TopShelfGoal]

The point of that post was that a candidate that uses the rhetroic of the justice dems that people like AOC so desperately want would lose anyways (considering how poorly some of the stuff they emphasize polls) so if they lost against someone like Kasich/Romney/Huntsman, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as it would atleast for the next 4-5 election cycles rid the Democratic Party of the elements that make unpopular statements that cause Democrats to lose votes and elections.

Which means you don't mind Republican rule. Which is 4 years of Trump's agenda, given how Romney was okay with everything Trump did.

Therefore, you are a Republican. This is not debatable.

LP supported Democratic candidates, spent tens of millions of dollars in support for Democratic candidates and continue to support Democratic candidates in the Senate control tipping GA January elections. I'll take  support wherever I can get and not impose ridiculous purity tests. I don't care what they have done in the past, if even Voldemort or Darth Vader wanted to support Democrats getting elected by spending 10s of millions of dollars I'd accept their support instead of looking a gifthorse in its mouth.

LP spent 70million+ trying to get Democrats elected at every level. I am not going to say no to that or disavow their support just because some LP staffer tweeted support for an R candidate in some irrelevant downballot race in NH.

Ah yes - irrelevant downballot races in New Hampshire like *ahem* the governor's race. Which was competitive in 2018, and this "random staffer" (who's a well-known executive!) openly endorsed, despite tacking to the Republican line for the first term.

Since then, I've found out Horn actually continued to praise Sununu in 2020. While she continued to support Pappas, she was pretty clearly in Sununu's corner, explicitly drawing a contrast between him and Trump. This hurt Democratic performance down the ballot.

In case you haven't heard, I think the Lincoln Project are a bunch of frauds. They dislike Trump, but they don't mind Trump's agenda, per se. They just don't like that Trump is more overt about trying to destroy democracy than, say, Chris Sununu. They don't like that he openly wants to end Roe v. Wade, unlike John Kasich. They liked Trump's politics and his attitude when it benefited them. Now, they're standing against them because they don't get to have a seat at the table anymore.

Considering you seem to think "vote blue no matter who" is an "absurd purity test", it certainly doesn't help your case.

AOC and her crew are not "the left". I have a poor opinion of them because they don't seem to care about how their words and actions affect the odds of Democrats controlling levers of powers. They keep repeat unpopular rhetoric when the senate majority hangs in the balance and don't seem to show any humility from the result of the 2020 election downballot. Brian Schatz and Elizabeth Warren are as left as anyone in the congress and I haven't criticized them. They are good team players and try to avoid rhetoric that polls poorly. Unlike the people I have been criticizing who seem to only care about likes, retweets and being edgelords.

Putting aside the fact that you're a Republican trying to gatekeep who's a part of the "left" and who isn't, ideology gets to determine who's a part of the left. Not who you like and who you don't like.

It's extremely Atlas brain to suggest that some random Senator nobody knows outside of the leftosphere said "Green New Deal" is going to cost elections. The voters of Georgia don't care about what Ed Markey is thinking. The voters of New Hampshire don't care what Deb Fischer is thinking.

I'd also argue that Warren isn't a "good team player". A leftist, sure, but someone who is more concerned with advancing her own prospects than enacting leftist policy. You can easily contrast her Gabbard-esque decision to continue her campaign past Nevada with Buttigieg dropping out when he was still a top-tier candidate to unite behind Biden. And we haven't even gotten into her exaggeration of a clumsily-worded statement Bernie made, which was pretty blatantly made in retaliation for a campaign mailer. Speaking as an actual leftist, I'd vote for Kamala over her, mainly because Kamala would try to beat us in a bare-knuckle fight instead of stab us in the back.

And we haven't gotten into Warren's unpopularity because of her inability to relate and her recent lean into "woke politics". I think it's very funny that the people pearl-clutching about wokism don't realize that the party establishment is just as unafraid to take unpopular positions with regard to wokism.

The interesting thing to me is (and this exchange proves it) is that folks like you whenever presented with legitimate criticism of their heroes (like AOC/Omar/Tlaib running far behind Biden in their own districts) resort to attacking the person presenting the criticism rather than actually engaging with the points made on substance. If the rhetoric of these people is costing them votes in their own very blue districts they should have more of a sense of responsibility knowing what they say effects people in much redder districts who don't have the luxury of running 10+ points behind the top of the ticket.

Right, the guy who *flips through notepad* made an actual rebuttal to the argument a few pages ago, is unable to make a rebuttal to the argument. People on the national stage, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and (to a lesser degree) Omar, are lightning rods and will attract more attention, despite it being a hopeless race. The same principle as to why people invested in Amy McGrath and Jaime Harrison applies here: AOC and Omar are boogeymen, and a competent campaigner will be able to take advantage of that.  

In the case of Omar, the Legal Marijuana Now party also siphoned away votes from her. Low-information voters who would normally vote for the Democrat saw Legal Weed and voted for their candidate.

I'm actually not thrilled about Omar for obvious reasons, and I'm perfectly cognizant of AOC's flaws. She's not even my first choice for 2024! I just don't like when people throw out bad analysis in the name of sowing disunity, and I especially don't like it when it's coming from a Republican concern troll like you.  

It's ironic that everything you've accused me of doing, you've done yourself. You've put words in my mouth and transfixed your beliefs of the left onto me. You've conveniently cherry-picked arguments, put words in my mouth, and twisted what I've said to fit your narrative.

In short, you know you can't land a hit on me, and you know your behavior is sowing disunity, so you've resorted to empty whataboutery and strawmen to distract from it all.

If you haven't learned how nationalized politics is in 2020 after this election than I can't help you. Every race is nationalized and voters seem to vote on party brand rather than local candidates and talking about stuff that polls poorly before the GA elections hurts Democratic chances. Republicans will attribute Green New Deal to Warnock/Ossoff and their attacks would be made so much easier due to some members of congress continue to talk about it. You feel the reflexive need to defend these people but it is undeniable that they are not helping the Democratic cause of taking the senate.

I would take Elizabeth Warren any day over the likes of Markey/AOC. Warren is as left as anyone in the congress (perhaps even more) but has the common sense to not make those views public and give Republicans more ammo when senate literally hangs in the balance. Even Sanders seems to understand this. And no I am not shedding any tears over her not dropping out prior to Super Tuesday to make life easier for Bernie. She had every right to compete in those Super Tuesday states.

Anyways you continue to use ad-hominem attacks, there is nothing productive coming out of this discussion so I am done with it.

[TopShelfGoal]

Omar is undeniably toxic. She's definitely a unique case.

I mean duh, she's a Black hijabi immigrant and this is a racist, sexist, xenophobic, and Islamophobic country. It's very easy to fearmonger using her image.

Did these voters not realize that she was a black hijabi immigrant when they voted for her with 78% of the vote in 2018 (almost the same as what Biden got in that district in 2020)?

This isn't even about Omar, it's about how so many refuse to acknowledge what happened downballot in 2020, until we do that, we cannot rectify it for the future. This same thing happened almost everywhere to varying degrees.

[free my dawg]

If you haven't learned how nationalized politics is in 2020 after this election than I can't help you. Every race is nationalized and voters seem to vote on party brand rather than local candidates and talking about stuff that polls poorly before the GA elections hurts Democratic chances. Republicans will attribute Green New Deal to Warnock/Ossoff and their attacks would be made so much easier due to some members of congress continue to talk about it. You feel the reflexive need to defend these people but it is undeniable that they are not helping the Democratic cause of taking the senate.

Again - since you didn't seen to get it this time - Ed Markey is not nationally known. To most Georgians, he's one of 98 anonymous Senators. AOC is a national figure. Ilhan Omar, to a lesser degree, has a national profile. Ed Markey does not have a national profile.

He was anonymous back then, was anonymous even when he ran against Kennedy, and will continue to be anonymous because AOC is the public face of the GND movement. It's extremely Atlas brain, and quite frankly, stupid to suggest that the voters are so in-tune with politics that they care about some Senator from Massachusetts's opinion. 
 

I would take Elizabeth Warren any day over the likes of Markey/AOC. Warren is as left as anyone in the congress (perhaps even more) but has the common sense to not make those views public and give Republicans more ammo when senate literally hangs in the balance. Even Sanders seems to understand this. And no I am not shedding any tears over her not dropping out prior to Super Tuesday to make life easier for Bernie. She had every right to compete in those Super Tuesday states.

You've done absolutely nothing to refute my argument. Her having a right to do what she did doesn't erase the abject selfishness of her actions in the primary. I don't think she's a Trojan horse or that she's going to stab us in the back. However, what she did (on multiple occasions!) helped take Bernie's campaign down with her, and she'll sow the fruits of that endeavor if she runs in 2024.

It's amazing that you are using the "low info voter" to defend Omar's numbers. Biden faced Libertarians and Greens two parties with the exact same position on Marijuana legalization and he did not see such a dropoff. She ran 28 points behind Biden in the Edina part of her district which consists of an extremely upscale suburb. https://twitter.com/NortonMpls/status/1329055236569276416 You think these people are low info voters?

Per my last post, I do think it's a combination of both things. I think her positions on M4A, GND, and defund the police have less to do with her underperformance than her criticisms of Israel do, but that's just me.

Anyways you continue to use ad-hominem attacks, there is nothing productive coming out of this discussion so I am done with it.

I don't need to use ad hominem attacks. I'm exposing you, using your own words, for what you are: a wolf in sheep's clothing who's more concerned with making the left tap out than winning elections. Even if it means bringing back our national nightmare for four more years.

Every single time you try to make a comment in Democratic affairs, I'll be reminding everyone where you stand. I'd focus on my own party's affairs before concern trolling in Democrats'.

[TopShelfGoal]

It's rich that someone who has openly pontificated about voting 3rd party and whose signature says "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party told me to leave." is telling others whether they are Democrats or not.

[free my dawg]

It's rich that someone who has openly pontificated about voting 3rd party and whose signature says "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party told me to leave." is telling others whether they are Democrats or not.

Let's see: I've volunteered on the ground for Democrats every cycle I could, you sit here on an random Internet forum going off on unhinged rants about you'd rather have Mitch McConnell and Marjorie Taylor Greene in control of the government than Ed Markey and AOC.

I'm more of a Democrat than you ever will be, kid. And nothing you can say or do will ever change that.

[Crucial Waukesha]

with the mail ballot dump it looks like AOC is up to 71.6%.  Beating Crowley's results in 2016

[VAR]

Biden carried NY-14 by 47%, and AOC won reelection by 45%.

RIP MacArthur

[Zaybay]

Well, this thread was a waste of time

[Xing]

Well, this thread was a waste of time

Yep, which could be said about pretty much every "own the left" thread.

[lfromnj]

Tbf still not a great result when you consider downballot/topballot performance. It was Clinton +57 so generally an area that swings R should still have D overperformance at the top of the ballot. On the other hand Omar's underperformance is a bit increased by the fact that her district is very upscale and trended to the left this year meaning she should have still underperformed Biden like Phillips did.

[Canis]

https://twitter.com/Elections_Daily/status/1333907910498406407
What a waste of money to the people who gave to AOC's opponent lmao

[Gracile]

This thread is yet another example of centrist Democrats being too stupid to wait for accurate results and lacking the nuance to provide context because it doesn't suit their narratives (the past NY-14 results MacArthur showed are under drastically different lines, so the comparison was faulty from the start). These same people have the nerve to imply that leftists are unintelligent when there is plenty of stupidity to go around in their own camp.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

F for MacArthur.

I suggest that this thread she be bumped every few months as a reminder. Never forget!

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Biden carried NY-14 by 47%, and AOC won reelection by 45%.

RIP MacArthur

Well this thread just took a hilarious detour.

Though it won't matter since this got conveniently remodeled into an anti-Omar thread. That's about the closest we'll get to a sign of concession.

Or we'll now get takes along the lines of how one of the most prominent members of Congress only slightly outperformed her "comparably unknown" predecessor.

[Calthrina950]

Biden carried NY-14 by 47%, and AOC won reelection by 45%.

RIP MacArthur

Biden did worse in this district than Hillary Clinton, who won it 77-20% against Trump in 2016 (per the same tweet you linked to). This provides yet further confirmation of the minority swing to Trump this year.

[coloradocowboi]

I wonder how many ppl in the district voted for both Trump and AOC. There are bound to be a few, and it would be v interesting to talk to them lol

[Annatar]

Biden carried NY-14 by 47%, and AOC won reelection by 45%.

RIP MacArthur

Biden did worse in this district than Hillary Clinton, who won it 77-20% against Trump in 2016 (per the same tweet you linked to). This provides yet further confirmation of the minority swing to Trump this year.

It should be noted Hillary did 5% worse than Obama in this district, Obama won it by 62%, so there was a Hispanic swing it seems against Hilary, the swing seems to have continued this year and was a bit bigger as there was a 10% swing overall against Biden.

[KaiserDave]

AOC did worse than 2018, yes. And did the Republicans do better than 2018? Very much so.

But AOC still did better than Crowley in 2016. So....this hasn't aged well at all.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Can we not turn this into a Dem civil war? Ultimately, while I'm personally not a fan of her, she held up fine in her district, and the top of the ticket (Biden) underperformed too. I can cherry pick specific instances of strong and weak progressive performances, as well as strong and weak performances of more moderate Democrats. Ultimately, there are some districts where more moderate canidates bode better and others where progressives bode better. The real problem for us Democrats going forwards is our national branding as we're a very ideologically diverse party at this point in time. Ultimately, I'm not a huge fan of AOC for a large variety of reasons, but instead of signaling her out, let's take a look at the deeper problems of why we underperformed expectations and try to come up with a way that we can coexist.

[GoTfan]

So . . .

How ya feelin', MacArthur?

[free my dawg]

Can we not turn this into a Dem civil war? Ultimately, while I'm personally not a fan of her, she held up fine in her district, and the top of the ticket (Biden) underperformed too. I can cherry pick specific instances of strong and weak progressive performances, as well as strong and weak performances of more moderate Democrats. Ultimately, there are some districts where more moderate canidates bode better and others where progressives bode better. The real problem for us Democrats going forwards is our national branding as we're a very ideologically diverse party at this point in time. Ultimately, I'm not a huge fan of AOC for a large variety of reasons, but instead of signaling her out, let's take a look at the deeper problems of why we underperformed expectations and try to come up with a way that we can coexist.

I would love to. I thought my response to MacArthur would have been fine.

Unfortunately, there's another Republican agent (maybe NYCMM's latest bit?) in the thread ****ting it up.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Can we not turn this into a Dem civil war? Ultimately, while I'm personally not a fan of her, she held up fine in her district, and the top of the ticket (Biden) underperformed too. I can cherry pick specific instances of strong and weak progressive performances, as well as strong and weak performances of more moderate Democrats. Ultimately, there are some districts where more moderate canidates bode better and others where progressives bode better. The real problem for us Democrats going forwards is our national branding as we're a very ideologically diverse party at this point in time. Ultimately, I'm not a huge fan of AOC for a large variety of reasons, but instead of signaling her out, let's take a look at the deeper problems of why we underperformed expectations and try to come up with a way that we can coexist.

You're about 120 posts too late