Arizona megathread

[Calthrina950]

I'm gonna go off on a limb here and say that I think it's possible for Kari Lake to narrowly take Maricopa county if she wins. A 4+ win likely sees her carrying the county while 2-3% it's tossup. There is still enough juice for a Trumpy candidate to squeeze out a win here although it is fading. Since Masters will run behind Lake, I don't see him winning it unless Lake is winning by 5+.

What is your view of the campaign situation in Arizona right now? Between Lake and Masters, who is running the better campaign and who has more enthusiasm from their supporters? And what about Hobbs? She decided to pull out of the debate with Lake, which I see as a foolish decision on her part.

[Calthrina950]

At this point, Hobbs probably has the same chance of winning as Stacey Abrams.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'm starting to seriously think that a split outcome between Kelly and Lake is likely.

[Calthrina950]

As Centrist and Xavier have noted, Hobbs has virtually zero TV presence currently.  (Lake doesn't either, but as I've said she doesn't really need it due to her name recognition.)

Tying into what I said earlier and about what was asked about Kelly-Lake voters?  My parents, for two.  They're just in love with her.  I managed to cajole them into voting for Biden, and they really like Mark Kelly, but I can't currently dissuade them from voting for "Kari."

The abortion angle?  Doesn't move them at all.  The nutcase election rhetoric?  According to them, she doesn't really believe it, so it's okay.

A confident and familiar female candidate with a lot of experience in charming and playing an audience is hard to paint as "extremist" regardless of her actual policy positions or past statements, who would have thought? (They’re probably right about Lake's 'Trumpism' being entirely performative, though.)

Lake's background as a longtime local news anchor certainly is benefiting her greatly as a political candidate, similar to how Ronald Reagan's background as a Hollywood actor benefited him as a candidate. By contrast, Hobbs (like Jimmy Carter) is not a great public speaker and seems to lack self-confidence. Image matters with many voters, probably more so than policy, and especially with low-info voters who don't follow politics in depth.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1570887898819624962

Perhaps not an optimal message for a swing state.

It's ironic that she said this, considering that she was part of the media (as a local news anchor) for many years, and that is the reason why she is widely known in Arizona. It's unfortunate that she has such a good chance at winning here, since Hobbs can't campaign her way out of a paper bag.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1570887898819624962

Perhaps not an optimal message for a swing state.

It's ironic that she said this, considering that she was part of the media (as a local news anchor) for many years, and that is the reason why she is widely known in Arizona. It's unfortunate that she has such a good chance at winning here, since Hobbs can't campaign her way out of a paper bag.

Except I would argue that Hobbs is actually out there meeting voters and doing things while Lake is simply just saying crazy things. Where is the actual campaigning from Lake?

This entire premise of "Lake says insane things >>>> she's such a good campaigner" is seriously galaxy brain

I'm not saying that Lake is a good candidate. She would not be saying insane things such as this if she were. But Hobbs isn't a strong candidate either, and someone like Stanton would probably be faring better against Lake at this point. I know that you don't think Hobbs' decision not to debate Lake makes no difference, but that would have been the perfect opportunity to expose Lake for what she is.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1570887898819624962

Perhaps not an optimal message for a swing state.

It's ironic that she said this, considering that she was part of the media (as a local news anchor) for many years, and that is the reason why she is widely known in Arizona. It's unfortunate that she has such a good chance at winning here, since Hobbs can't campaign her way out of a paper bag.

Except I would argue that Hobbs is actually out there meeting voters and doing things while Lake is simply just saying crazy things. Where is the actual campaigning from Lake?

This entire premise of "Lake says insane things >>>> she's such a good campaigner" is seriously galaxy brain

I'm not saying that Lake is a good candidate. She would not be saying insane things such as this if she were. But Hobbs isn't a strong candidate either, and someone like Stanton would probably be faring better against Lake at this point. I know that you don't think Hobbs' decision not to debate Lake makes no difference, but that would have been the perfect opportunity to expose Lake for what she is.

You don't need a debate to expose her for what she is. She's literally doing that on her own in every single appearance she makes.

I think it would have driven the point home even further.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/rumpfshaker/status/1573837968330088449

Part of a long thread with much more from Liz Cheney, well worth reading.

As I recall, you a former Republican. Is that right? Liz Cheney seems to be having the same evolution in thought that you and other former Republicans on here have had.

[Calthrina950]

One of the stranger attacks on Hobbs recently has been a story about her not reporting income from her Uber side gig in 2016.

I don’t know why Hobbs isn’t running with the story. It really humanizes her. Kinda blows my mind that our Secretary of State was chaffeuring people around Phoenix five years ago to support her family. I would like to see more of that side of Katie—I think it would endear people to her.

But Republicans are the party of the working class!!!!11111!!!

Of the white working class, but not of the minority working class - at least, not now. That would be a true realignment if that were to occur.

[Calthrina950]

One of the stranger attacks on Hobbs recently has been a story about her not reporting income from her Uber side gig in 2016.

I don’t know why Hobbs isn’t running with the story. It really humanizes her. Kinda blows my mind that our Secretary of State was chaffeuring people around Phoenix five years ago to support her family. I would like to see more of that side of Katie—I think it would endear people to her.

But Republicans are the party of the working class!!!!11111!!!

Of the white working class, but not of the minority working class - at least, not now. That would be a true realignment if that were to occur.

Perhaps, but 90% of the time in politics when people say "the working class" they mean 40+ white men without a college degree.

Well, that's one and the same as the white working class, is it not? I personally have not seen this kind of distinction. The distinctions I notice are usually made along racial lines.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1577814899056553985
https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1577839756783718400?cxt=HHwWgMCo-cS5zuUrAAAA
Katie Hobbs ditched the Hispanic Town Hall tonight

Lord Jesus! It seems as if Hobbs wants to lose the election.

[Calthrina950]

Hobbs is running an awful campaign. At this point I'm calling the election for Lake. If Hobbs wins I'll consider it an upset.

Not trying to single you out in particular, but it is absolutely infuriating to see 20 people post the same message here over and over again (Hobbs is doomed!!!) because of some minor development on the campaign trail. In this case, it was actual fake news from the Lake campaign that people fell for. Hook, line, and sinker.

You say that this townhall was a "publicity stunt" organized by the Lake campaign. What is your source for this? I've heard that the organization which organized this event was Prensa Arizona, which is a Spanish language publication. Apparently, they extended invitations to both Hobbs and Lake to attend. Lake showed up, but Hobbs did not, and apparently had her campaign manager issue a statement that she couldn't oblige due to her schedule. Is this true? Or was this a stunt?

[Calthrina950]

Hobbs is running an awful campaign. At this point I'm calling the election for Lake. If Hobbs wins I'll consider it an upset.

Not trying to single you out in particular, but it is absolutely infuriating to see 20 people post the same message here over and over again (Hobbs is doomed!!!) because of some minor development on the campaign trail. In this case, it was actual fake news from the Lake campaign that people fell for. Hook, line, and sinker.

You say that this townhall was a "publicity stunt" organized by the Lake campaign. What is your source for this? I've heard that the organization which organized this event was Prensa Arizona, which is a Spanish language publication. Apparently, they extended invitations to both Hobbs and Lake to attend. Lake showed up, but Hobbs did not, and apparently had her campaign manager issue a statement that she couldn't oblige due to her schedule. Is this true? Or was this a stunt?

Because people in my party cannot accept anything other than the Rosiest possible picture of whats happening for them. It's infuriating

I'm surprised no one else responded to this, perhaps because that was what actually occurred. I've said before that I think Hispanics will swing to Lake, even if she loses. If Hobbs wins, she will win thanks to the same college-educated, suburban voters ("McCain Republicans") who helped deliver the state to Biden in 2020.

[Calthrina950]

Kari Lake was booted from Arizona Univision town hall audience before Hobbs took the stage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/kari-lake-was-booted-arizona-town-hall-audience-hobbs-took-stage-rcna51347

sounds like a winning campaign to me!

Hobbs has refused to debate Lake, and it seems like she doesn't want to share the stage with her. Lake obviously sought to press the issue, but failed. This also explains why Hobbs didn't show up to the Prensa Arizona townhall that was discussed earlier in this thread.

[Calthrina950]

Kari Lake was booted from Arizona Univision town hall audience before Hobbs took the stage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/kari-lake-was-booted-arizona-town-hall-audience-hobbs-took-stage-rcna51347

sounds like a winning campaign to me!

Hobbs has refused to debate Lake, and it seems like she doesn't want to share the stage with her. Lake obviously sought to press the issue, but failed. This also explains why Hobbs didn't show up to the Prensa Arizona townhall that was discussed earlier in this thread.

I think Lake has a good chance of winning.

She does, as does Hobbs. I've gone as far to say AZ-GOV is Lean R, but it's more appropriate to adjudge it as a Tossup. Win or lose, Lake will run ahead of Masters by a decent margin. A split outcome between her and Kelly is very likely at this point.

[Calthrina950]

Kari Lake was booted from Arizona Univision town hall audience before Hobbs took the stage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/kari-lake-was-booted-arizona-town-hall-audience-hobbs-took-stage-rcna51347

sounds like a winning campaign to me!

Hobbs has refused to debate Lake, and it seems like she doesn't want to share the stage with her. Lake obviously sought to press the issue, but failed. This also explains why Hobbs didn't show up to the Prensa Arizona townhall that was discussed earlier in this thread.

I think Lake has a good chance of winning.

She does, as does Hobbs. I've gone as far to say AZ-GOV is Lean R, but it's more appropriate to adjudge it as a Tossup. Win or lose, Lake will run ahead of Masters by a decent margin. A split outcome between her and Kelly is very likely at this point.

Yeah that is the mostly likely outcome: a Lake - Kelly split. However Kelly really botched up the Debate against Masters and he underperformed his Polling in 2020 against washed-up McSally. Republicans are back in the Game in the Senate Race I think.

I still give the advantage to Kelly, but a Masters victory wouldn't surprise me.

[Calthrina950]

Kari Lake was booted from Arizona Univision town hall audience before Hobbs took the stage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/kari-lake-was-booted-arizona-town-hall-audience-hobbs-took-stage-rcna51347

sounds like a winning campaign to me!

Hobbs has refused to debate Lake, and it seems like she doesn't want to share the stage with her. Lake obviously sought to press the issue, but failed. This also explains why Hobbs didn't show up to the Prensa Arizona townhall that was discussed earlier in this thread.

I think Lake has a good chance of winning.

She does, as does Hobbs. I've gone as far to say AZ-GOV is Lean R, but it's more appropriate to adjudge it as a Tossup. Win or lose, Lake will run ahead of Masters by a decent margin. A split outcome between her and Kelly is very likely at this point.

Yeah that is the mostly likely outcome: a Lake - Kelly split. However Kelly really botched up the Debate against Masters and he underperformed his Polling in 2020 against washed-up McSally. Republicans are back in the Game in the Senate Race I think.

I still give the advantage to Kelly, but a Masters victory wouldn't surprise me.

The Border and Crime Issue will drag down Kelly I think. Same will happen with CCM in Nevada. O'Rourke will lose I think because of it. Yvette Herrell will stun Democrats and get reelected in NM and the Grisham - Rochetti Race will be tighter as well because of the Border Crisis.

I sure hope Ronchetti wins, because Grisham is terrible. She was a hypocrite with regards to the pandemic and overreached in her response to that, and she's had sexual assault allegations (which she settled monetarily). O'Rourke was going to lose regardless, but as I've said, I think he'll lose by more than he did in 2018 and do worse in the Rio Grande Valley. And I do think Laxalt is going to win in Nevada at this point, although it will be close.

[Calthrina950]

Kari Lake was booted from Arizona Univision town hall audience before Hobbs took the stage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/kari-lake-was-booted-arizona-town-hall-audience-hobbs-took-stage-rcna51347

sounds like a winning campaign to me!

Hobbs has refused to debate Lake, and it seems like she doesn't want to share the stage with her. Lake obviously sought to press the issue, but failed. This also explains why Hobbs didn't show up to the Prensa Arizona townhall that was discussed earlier in this thread.

I think Lake has a good chance of winning.

She does, as does Hobbs. I've gone as far to say AZ-GOV is Lean R, but it's more appropriate to adjudge it as a Tossup. Win or lose, Lake will run ahead of Masters by a decent margin. A split outcome between her and Kelly is very likely at this point.

Yeah that is the mostly likely outcome: a Lake - Kelly split. However Kelly really botched up the Debate against Masters and he underperformed his Polling in 2020 against washed-up McSally. Republicans are back in the Game in the Senate Race I think.

I still give the advantage to Kelly, but a Masters victory wouldn't surprise me.

Oh? Kelly is widely considered to be a great candidate, and Masters... not so much.

As I said, I think Kelly has the advantage, and I think he will win, but it's not going to be a runaway landslide. Kelly won't win by more than a few percentage points. It is Arizona, and the state is highly polarized.

[Calthrina950]

Kari Lake was booted from Arizona Univision town hall audience before Hobbs took the stage

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/kari-lake-was-booted-arizona-town-hall-audience-hobbs-took-stage-rcna51347

sounds like a winning campaign to me!

Hobbs has refused to debate Lake, and it seems like she doesn't want to share the stage with her. Lake obviously sought to press the issue, but failed. This also explains why Hobbs didn't show up to the Prensa Arizona townhall that was discussed earlier in this thread.

I think Lake has a good chance of winning.

She does, as does Hobbs. I've gone as far to say AZ-GOV is Lean R, but it's more appropriate to adjudge it as a Tossup. Win or lose, Lake will run ahead of Masters by a decent margin. A split outcome between her and Kelly is very likely at this point.

Yeah that is the mostly likely outcome: a Lake - Kelly split. However Kelly really botched up the Debate against Masters and he underperformed his Polling in 2020 against washed-up McSally. Republicans are back in the Game in the Senate Race I think.

I still give the advantage to Kelly, but a Masters victory wouldn't surprise me.

Oh? Kelly is widely considered to be a great candidate, and Masters... not so much.

As I said, I think Kelly has the advantage, and I think he will win, but it's not going to be a runaway landslide. Kelly won't win by more than a few percentage points. It is Arizona, and the state is highly polarized.

I agree with this take. I just can't really envision Masters having a chance, he's too extreme IMO.

I've said before that Kelly has a "personality" advantage, given that he's a former astronaut and Gabby Giffords' husband. This is also why Lake has been doing well, and why there could be a split outcome. She's a former local news anchor who knows how to work the media and apparently has good will from her career.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1579295382827589633?cxt=HHwWgoDTjZCy5OorAAAA

I am honestly surprised and am very glad Lake and Masters were able to flip the script on abortion. Instead of constantly being put on the defense, they are highlighting Hobbs and Kelly's all-you-care-to-abort with no restrictions stances and calling them out on it.

Hobbs was given an opportunity by Major Garrett of CBS News to indicate support for at least some kind of week-based restriction, but she refused to do so and reiterated the generic Democratic position that abortion decisions should be "left between a woman and her doctor", and that late pregnancies are terminated only because "something terrible has gone wrong."

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1579295382827589633?cxt=HHwWgoDTjZCy5OorAAAA

I am honestly surprised and am very glad Lake and Masters were able to flip the script on abortion. Instead of constantly being put on the defense, they are highlighting Hobbs and Kelly's all-you-care-to-abort with no restrictions stances and calling them out on it.

Hobbs was given an opportunity by Major Garrett of CBS News to indicate support for at least some kind of week-based restriction, but she refused to do so and reiterated the generic Democratic position that abortion decisions should be "left between a woman and her doctor", and that late pregnancies are terminated only because "something terrible has gone wrong."

Which ... most rational and normal people know. If anyone honestly thinks there are "abortions after birth" or people getting abortions at 23 weeks for the fun of it, then they were never voting for a Democrat to begin with. The entire "Lake says YOU'RE extreme on abortion" thing is just a ridiculous talking point for the press to both sides yet another issue.

If this is the case, then how can it hurt the Democrats to explicitly support a week-based abortion ban. A 15-week ban? Or a 20-week ban? And a ban that includes the typical exceptions? I certainly think Republicans are distorting the issue, and exaggerating what takes place in later stages of the pregnancy. But the Democrats have adopted an entirely "hands off" approach to abortion that is far more progressive than the "safe, legal, and rare" approach of decades past. They are not comfortable with measures such as parental notification or parental consent laws either.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1579295382827589633?cxt=HHwWgoDTjZCy5OorAAAA

I am honestly surprised and am very glad Lake and Masters were able to flip the script on abortion. Instead of constantly being put on the defense, they are highlighting Hobbs and Kelly's all-you-care-to-abort with no restrictions stances and calling them out on it.

Hobbs was given an opportunity by Major Garrett of CBS News to indicate support for at least some kind of week-based restriction, but she refused to do so and reiterated the generic Democratic position that abortion decisions should be "left between a woman and her doctor", and that late pregnancies are terminated only because "something terrible has gone wrong."

Which ... most rational and normal people know. If anyone honestly thinks there are "abortions after birth" or people getting abortions at 23 weeks for the fun of it, then they were never voting for a Democrat to begin with. The entire "Lake says YOU'RE extreme on abortion" thing is just a ridiculous talking point for the press to both sides yet another issue.

If this is the case, then how can it hurt the Democrats to explicitly support a week-based abortion ban. A 15-week ban? Or a 20-week ban? And a ban that includes the typical exceptions? I certainly think Republicans are distorting the issue, and exaggerating what takes place in later stages of the pregnancy. But the Democrats have adopted an entirely "hands off" approach to abortion that is far more progressive than the "safe, legal, and rare" approach of decades past. They are not comfortable with measures such as parental notification or parental consent laws either.

The point is the "bans" in general! Yes, most people if they had to choose would pick some type of week length, but the entire point of all of this is that this should not be something decided by politicians - that's the point she's making. People keep throwing out these arbitrary week markers when the point is that Republicans and anyone else shouldn't be making those decisions.

Lake literally only does this as a distraction from her own extreme views, which she has now been forced to somewhat back off of, depending on the day, because now her views have been all over the place, and in this particular interview, she couldn't even express where she draws the line either, but also supports the statewide ban.

Again, no reasonable person sees Lake flip-flopping on where she stands (after supporting a total ban) and then trying to make Hobbs the "extreme one" as persuasive imo.

I perfectly understand what she is saying, but why is it that abortion is the one particular issue where Democrats believe that the government should take a completely hands off approach? I don't understand that. But as to whether or not "reasonable people" view this as persuasive, we'll have to see what happens next month. I'll just say that Democrats could have nominated someone more disciplined and formidable than Hobbs, who is very much in jeopardy of losing this particular election.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1579295382827589633?cxt=HHwWgoDTjZCy5OorAAAA

I am honestly surprised and am very glad Lake and Masters were able to flip the script on abortion. Instead of constantly being put on the defense, they are highlighting Hobbs and Kelly's all-you-care-to-abort with no restrictions stances and calling them out on it.

Hobbs was given an opportunity by Major Garrett of CBS News to indicate support for at least some kind of week-based restriction, but she refused to do so and reiterated the generic Democratic position that abortion decisions should be "left between a woman and her doctor", and that late pregnancies are terminated only because "something terrible has gone wrong."

Which ... most rational and normal people know. If anyone honestly thinks there are "abortions after birth" or people getting abortions at 23 weeks for the fun of it, then they were never voting for a Democrat to begin with. The entire "Lake says YOU'RE extreme on abortion" thing is just a ridiculous talking point for the press to both sides yet another issue.

If this is the case, then how can it hurt the Democrats to explicitly support a week-based abortion ban. A 15-week ban? Or a 20-week ban? And a ban that includes the typical exceptions? I certainly think Republicans are distorting the issue, and exaggerating what takes place in later stages of the pregnancy. But the Democrats have adopted an entirely "hands off" approach to abortion that is far more progressive than the "safe, legal, and rare" approach of decades past. They are not comfortable with measures such as parental notification or parental consent laws either.

The point is the "bans" in general! Yes, most people if they had to choose would pick some type of week length, but the entire point of all of this is that this should not be something decided by politicians - that's the point she's making. People keep throwing out these arbitrary week markers when the point is that Republicans and anyone else shouldn't be making those decisions.

Lake literally only does this as a distraction from her own extreme views, which she has now been forced to somewhat back off of, depending on the day, because now her views have been all over the place, and in this particular interview, she couldn't even express where she draws the line either, but also supports the statewide ban.

Again, no reasonable person sees Lake flip-flopping on where she stands (after supporting a total ban) and then trying to make Hobbs the "extreme one" as persuasive imo.

I perfectly understand what she is saying, but why is it that abortion is the one particular issue where Democrats believe that the government should take a completely hands off approach? I don't understand that. But as to whether or not "reasonable people" view this as persuasive, we'll have to see what happens next month. I'll just say that Democrats could have nominated someone more disciplined and formidable than Hobbs, who is very much in jeopardy of losing this particular election.

Well it's Arizona in a Biden midterm, so I don't really think anyone else would've been doing much better

I would disagree with that. But at any rate, abortion has always been a policy where I've had considerable disagreement with the Democratic platform, and one where I think the Democrats could adopt a more moderate, pragmatic approach than the one which they currently take.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/KariLake/status/1579295382827589633?cxt=HHwWgoDTjZCy5OorAAAA

I am honestly surprised and am very glad Lake and Masters were able to flip the script on abortion. Instead of constantly being put on the defense, they are highlighting Hobbs and Kelly's all-you-care-to-abort with no restrictions stances and calling them out on it.

Hobbs was given an opportunity by Major Garrett of CBS News to indicate support for at least some kind of week-based restriction, but she refused to do so and reiterated the generic Democratic position that abortion decisions should be "left between a woman and her doctor", and that late pregnancies are terminated only because "something terrible has gone wrong."

Which ... most rational and normal people know. If anyone honestly thinks there are "abortions after birth" or people getting abortions at 23 weeks for the fun of it, then they were never voting for a Democrat to begin with. The entire "Lake says YOU'RE extreme on abortion" thing is just a ridiculous talking point for the press to both sides yet another issue.

If this is the case, then how can it hurt the Democrats to explicitly support a week-based abortion ban. A 15-week ban? Or a 20-week ban? And a ban that includes the typical exceptions? I certainly think Republicans are distorting the issue, and exaggerating what takes place in later stages of the pregnancy. But the Democrats have adopted an entirely "hands off" approach to abortion that is far more progressive than the "safe, legal, and rare" approach of decades past. They are not comfortable with measures such as parental notification or parental consent laws either.

The point is the "bans" in general! Yes, most people if they had to choose would pick some type of week length, but the entire point of all of this is that this should not be something decided by politicians - that's the point she's making. People keep throwing out these arbitrary week markers when the point is that Republicans and anyone else shouldn't be making those decisions.

Lake literally only does this as a distraction from her own extreme views, which she has now been forced to somewhat back off of, depending on the day, because now her views have been all over the place, and in this particular interview, she couldn't even express where she draws the line either, but also supports the statewide ban.

Again, no reasonable person sees Lake flip-flopping on where she stands (after supporting a total ban) and then trying to make Hobbs the "extreme one" as persuasive imo.

I perfectly understand what she is saying, but why is it that abortion is the one particular issue where Democrats believe that the government should take a completely hands off approach? I don't understand that. But as to whether or not "reasonable people" view this as persuasive, we'll have to see what happens next month. I'll just say that Democrats could have nominated someone more disciplined and formidable than Hobbs, who is very much in jeopardy of losing this particular election.

Well it's Arizona in a Biden midterm, so I don't really think anyone else would've been doing much better

I would disagree with that. But at any rate, abortion has always been a policy where I've had considerable disagreement with the Democratic platform, and one where I think the Democrats could adopt a more moderate, pragmatic approach than the one which they currently take.

Not sure I understand. Nobody - any Dem - is advocating for late term abortions. Democrats advocate for the right to choose what is best for yourself in your situation. I'm confused as to how you're not more upset with the GOP's extreme approach of banning it outright and taking the right away from people to make their own decisions.

I don't support the blanket Republican bans either, but I've never been someone who is staunchly pro-choice. I support parental consent, parental notification, waiting periods, and other limitations on abortion that Democrats generally oppose, and I firmly believe that there should be a specific time limit in place for abortions. I also oppose taxpayer funding of abortion and support the Hyde Amendment, the opposite of the Democratic stances on these issues. If the Democrats were willing to change those stances, I would be more comfortable with their approach. But they won't, and I deem their approach as too progressive, and the Republican approach as too regressive. I want something in the middle.

[Calthrina950]

Not sure I understand. Nobody - any Dem - is advocating for late term abortions. Democrats advocate for the right to choose what is best for yourself in your situation. I'm confused as to how you're not more upset with the GOP's extreme approach of banning it outright and taking the right away from people to make their own decisions.

you are talking to a brick wall

He's not. My stances on this issue are very clear.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/Adrian_Fontes/status/1579825051733327874

How much longer will it be before Kinzinger becomes an independent?