The Condescending, Intolerant Left Blows My Mind

[Inmate Trump]

Losing elections is hard.

I get it.

But at some point you have to realize that this election was an obvious and outright rejection of Trump.  He was rejected.  The majority of people in this country do not like him and want him out of office.  This is true now and it was true four years ago.  No matter your stance on supposed voter fraud (which is baseless but whatever).  Trump is not the will of the people.

And I know that you agree with me on this point, from a previous thread I started in which I asked if it bothered Republicans that they cannot win the majority of votes in presidential elections.  You agreed it was worrisome.

It will not be a good thing for America if the President of the United States is routinely elected with a lesser percentage of the popular vote than the second place finisher.  Until now, this hasn't been a major problem.  That Trump, who is perhaps our most controversial President in history, was elected while polling 2% less than the losing candidate and projects as likely to win in the same way if he wins again is not a good thing.

You are going to have to come to grips that Trump lost the 2020 election fair and square. Neither you nor Trump have any evidence whatsoever of voter fraud in this election.

Further, I urge you to have an open mind with our new President-elect.  I tried to give Trump the benefit of the doubt upon his entry to office in 2017.  Biden deserves the same from his political opposition. Whether you like it or not, Biden’s success is now your success, and your family’s too.  Biden’s success is your country’s success.

You don’t have to like him.  You can actively seek the Democratic candidate’s defeat in 2024. But you should accept him as our president. Biden will be your president, and he will have done so fairly. Recognize this fact because no amount of mental gymnastics will make it any less true.

Time to concede defeat because this was a defeat. I know it sucks, and if you need time to accept it I get that. But you’re going to have to accept it.

[Florida Man for Crime]

Democrats view Republicans as a threat to democracy because Republicans support gerrymandered legislatures which in turn gerrymander congressional districts and suppress the vote. I'm aware of my own state and am glad we're taking steps to end it. Reps do it overwhelmingly more than Dems do it. Part of the party's apparent strategy is to make it so it holds onto power even when it gets 48% of the vote. Then 45%. Then 42%. Democrats can win landslides in some states and still not win a majority.

How are we supposed to have tolerance or respect for people who are trying to warp the system and take away our right to self-governance? If the pendulum can't swing with public opinion it's bafflingly obvious that the people wounded by that will be increasingly resentful. A Democratic government gives Republicans a chance to gain seats in two or four years even if it tries to hold what it has. A Republican government immediately works toward entrenching power so that the will of voters matters less.

If you can agree that this is bad and demand your party allow a system where the other party can win when it wins the people, we can cooperate on countless issues and accept your victories when they come fairly. I'd be completely satisfied with Republican majorities passing legislation the Republican Party supports if they came to power through fair democracy.

Fuzzy, can you be decent here and express understanding of your fellow Americans who are feeling robbed over this issue? If Republicans engage in fair play and support a plan to end gerrymandering nationwide the nation would become a hundred times calmer overnight and we could achieve some long needed infrastructure bills. Please? Imagine if the reverse was happening. Where it is, we should all also want it to stop.

Fuzzy, if you have a basic sense of decency, fairness, and good faith (and I think you do, from having read various of your posts over time), please read the post above and consider it carefully.

After you have done that, read this timeline ("Upon a Cross of Globalism"):

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=361302.0

Where do you think this is all going over the longer term?

From having read various of your posts over time, I think that probably the major thing that has driven you towards the GOP and Trump is abortion. Basically, the governmental system (in particular the Supreme Court) decided a while ago to essentially remove abortion from the political arena as something that could be decided from within a democratic/representative system. While I am not personally anti-abortion, I can easily understand why that would be deeply upsetting to people like you who are. From your perspective, essentially the political system, by not allowing the issue of abortion to be decided democratically, made your vote not count.

Consider that, and consider the relation it may have to the post above from Charcolt.

I suggest the question we should consider is whether, if, and how people from both sides of the political divide could come together and figure out a way to resolve these things in a way that would be mutually acceptable. For a moment, I suggest we try to set aside temporary considerations and partisan considerations and consider the question of the long-run trajectory of the country over the next 50 or 100 years, and beyond, and how we can set that trajectory in the right direction.

Ultimately, the question is what sort of country do you (and I and others) want to live in? Do we want to live in a representative democracy? If not, how should we expect things to develop from here? I fear that if we don't figure this out, the general direction that we are all headed is generally towards greater division, a move towards political violence, civil war, and the destruction of the American republic and it being replaced ultimately with some sort of autocratic dictatorship (which could be either conceivably left wing or right wing). I for one do not want to live in such a country; I think it would be much better to live in a representative democracy which allows for gradual and peaceful evolutionary policy change and allows for policy to reflect the outcomes of elections (and that includes policy changes that personally I would not support).

Would you be interested in having a serious and good faith discussion about this?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Losing elections is hard.

I get it.

But at some point you have to realize that this election was an obvious and outright rejection of Trump.  He was rejected.  The majority of people in this country do not like him and want him out of office.  This is true now and it was true four years ago.  No matter your stance on supposed voter fraud (which is baseless but whatever).  Trump is not the will of the people.

And I know that you agree with me on this point, from a previous thread I started in which I asked if it bothered Republicans that they cannot win the majority of votes in presidential elections.  You agreed it was worrisome.

It will not be a good thing for America if the President of the United States is routinely elected with a lesser percentage of the popular vote than the second place finisher.  Until now, this hasn't been a major problem.  That Trump, who is perhaps our most controversial President in history, was elected while polling 2% less than the losing candidate and projects as likely to win in the same way if he wins again is not a good thing.

You are going to have to come to grips that Trump lost the 2020 election fair and square. Neither you nor Trump have any evidence whatsoever of voter fraud in this election.

Further, I urge you to have an open mind with our new President-elect.  I tried to give Trump the benefit of the doubt upon his entry to office in 2017.  Biden deserves the same from his political opposition. Whether you like it or not, Biden’s success is now your success, and your family’s too.  Biden’s success is your country’s success.

You don’t have to like him.  You can actively seek the Democratic candidate’s defeat in 2024. But you should accept him as our president. Biden will be your president, and he will have done so fairly. Recognize this fact because no amount of mental gymnastics will make it any less true.

Time to concede defeat because this was a defeat. I know it sucks, and if you need time to accept it I get that. But you’re going to have to accept it.

I'll "accept it" after the legal challenges are decided.  Not before.

[Joe Republic]

I'll "accept it" after the legal challenges are decided.  Not before.

Haha, no you won’t.

[John Dule]

Fuzzy, Donald Trump declared victory in Pennsylvania when he had a 15-point lead with about 33% of the ballots counted. You're an Atlas user; you know the kinds of margins and swings we're most likely to see in an election. Does it make sense to you that Pennsylvania voted seven points to the right of Ohio?

[Damocles]

Elections have consequences. Cry harder, snowflake.

[R.P. McM]

Nobody cares Fuzzy

Actually, I care.

As Ayn Rand (there, I dropped a name) said waaaaay back in 1964, voting for a candidate does not commit one to support all of the candidate's positions-- and it certainly does not commit one to agree with all of the candidate's supporters about everything. Many Trump voters, both in 2016 and 2020, did not like either candidate-- but voted for what they believed was the lesser of two evils. (I didn't vote for Trump in either election.)

Check out some of the comments under the topic "The Blacklisting of Trump Supporters Has Begun" to see how eager some are to treat vocal Trump supporters in a way reminiscent of how suspected Communists were treated by McCarthyites in the early 1950s.

I have friends on both sides of the spectrum. There are good people who voted for Trump and good people who voted for Biden. I will not pre-judge anyone's experiences or observations that led them to their conclusions. And I will not be intimidated into distancing myself from my friends based on political views.

With the obvious difference being that the Eisenhower Administration wasn't awash in Communist agents, whereas the Trump Administration is absolutely teeming with authoritarian bigots hellbent on perverting the institutions of government and subverting liberal democracy in order to entrench white Christian minority rule.