Chile Constitutional Referendum, September 4th 2022

[Libertas Vel Mors]

3 days until the constituent elections. Any predictions on results?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

3 days until the constituent elections. Any predictions on results?

Predictions for Constituent Elections are all over the place. Some say that the right is still on track to 40% of seats, others say that they are at risk of falling below "el tercio" (33% of the seats needed for veto). For mayors, the consensus is that the right will be alright but the gubernatorial elections are going to be a bloodbath for them.

Anyway, here are some predictions for constituent electiosn:

• The government still says that the right is going to get a third of the seats and the most voted list
• "Electoral Expert" deputy Pepe Auth predicts: Chile Vamos 30% and 56 seats; Lista del Apruebo 24% and 43 seats; Apruebo Dignidad 19% and 30 seats; independent lists: 22% and 9 seats
• Election site Tres Quintos: Chile Vamos 51-65 seats; Lista del Apruebo 51-59; Apruebo Dignidad 18-23; Others: 4-7.*
• All of the following is what the party think it will get: EVOPOLI 6, UDI 30, PS 10-14, DC 10-12, PPD 6-8, PRO 2, PC 12, Comunes 5, Convergencia Social 6
• Unidad Constituyente (Lista del Apruebo) think they will get in total about 40 seats

None of this considers the reserved seats for indigenous peoples.

From yours truly, my predictions would be: Lista del Apruebo 28%; Chile Vamos 28%, Apruebo Dignidad 22%, Independents and others: 22%. No idea about seats.
 

Who are most of the Independents aligned with?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Others here are commenting that Chile is not about to turn into a communist state, and they're right. But the results are still disastrous. Even if the Chilean Left will not be able to fully transform the society, it's a reality that the communists now have real influence and power, and that other left wing groups do as well. Changes, such as a gender parity mandate or an indigenous seats mandate, as well as anti-capitalist changes in the fundamental economic structures, should be expected. The country isn't about to turn into another Venezuela -- but it is a realistic expectation for it to become another Argentina.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Others here are commenting that Chile is not about to turn into a communist state, and they're right. But the results are still disastrous. Even if the Chilean Left will not be able to fully transform the society, it's a reality that the communists now have real influence and power, and that other left wing groups do as well. Changes, such as a gender parity mandate or an indigenous seats mandate, as well as anti-capitalist changes in the fundamental economic structures, should be expected. The country isn't about to turn into another Venezuela -- but it is a realistic expectation for it to become another Argentina.

This sentence is like the opposite of "arson, murder and jaywalking" Though I'm pretty sure there are people who would be equally incensed by a relatively minor change to the electoral system as by a radical restructuring of national economy. Putting these two on the same level speaks volumes about what American conservatives care about the most, and it's not the economy.

I'd gladly take an indigenous seats mandate if it meant a fully privatized economic system. But the reason I put those first two first is because they're the more likely outcomes, and they matter for the second one. The Chilean left will attempt to rig future elections by establishing electoral changes that benefit them, and from there they can go ahead with other policies.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Others here are commenting that Chile is not about to turn into a communist state, and they're right. But the results are still disastrous. Even if the Chilean Left will not be able to fully transform the society, it's a reality that the communists now have real influence and power, and that other left wing groups do as well. Changes, such as a gender parity mandate or an indigenous seats mandate, as well as anti-capitalist changes in the fundamental economic structures, should be expected. The country isn't about to turn into another Venezuela -- but it is a realistic expectation for it to become another Argentina.

This sentence is like the opposite of "arson, murder and jaywalking" Though I'm pretty sure there are people who would be equally incensed by a relatively minor change to the electoral system as by a radical restructuring of national economy. Putting these two on the same level speaks volumes about what American conservatives care about the most, and it's not the economy.

I'd gladly take an indigenous seats mandate if it meant a fully privatized economic system. But the reason I put those first two first is because they're the more likely outcomes, and they matter for the second one. The Chilean left will attempt to rig future elections by establishing electoral changes that benefit them, and from there they can go ahead with other policies. For instance, by giving left wing groups 17/155 seats from the get-go (as they did in this election) as "indigenous" seats.

Gender parity is mandated at the list level, it doesn't affect seat distribution between the right and the left. And indigenous peoples aren't left-wing. Rapa Nui is swingy, the 2 Aymara majority communities always give astronomic margins for the right and Mapuche vote the same as the rest of farmers (and Araucanía is the most right wing region of the country). Parties couldn't even run for the indigenous seats! You clearly know nothing about this election or Chile, so stop pulling things out of your ass.

The right won only the Kawéskar seat because they never have bothered to organize between indigenous people and thought they could get seats just by spamming ads on social media. But the other ones aren't militantly nor consistently left wing

In that case, I apologize if I'm wrong on the indigenous seats. For the gender distribution, it was never my impression that that affected seats, but purely that it was wrong separately -- but is still representative of a broader left shift in structure.

Others here are commenting that Chile is not about to turn into a communist state, and they're right. But the results are still disastrous. Even if the Chilean Left will not be able to fully transform the society, it's a reality that the communists now have real influence and power, and that other left wing groups do as well. Changes, such as a gender parity mandate or an indigenous seats mandate, as well as anti-capitalist changes in the fundamental economic structures, should be expected. The country isn't about to turn into another Venezuela -- but it is a realistic expectation for it to become another Argentina.

This sentence is like the opposite of "arson, murder and jaywalking" Though I'm pretty sure there are people who would be equally incensed by a relatively minor change to the electoral system as by a radical restructuring of national economy. Putting these two on the same level speaks volumes about what American conservatives care about the most, and it's not the economy.

I'd gladly take an indigenous seats mandate if it meant a fully privatized economic system. But the reason I put those first two first is because they're the more likely outcomes, and they matter for the second one. The Chilean left will attempt to rig future elections by establishing electoral changes that benefit them, and from there they can go ahead with other policies. For instance, by giving left wing groups 17/155 seats from the get-go (as they did in this election) as "indigenous" seats.

I believe is totally reasonable to have some concerns regarding the process and the potential outcome (although I disagree) but I think regarding some points you are not well informed or are misinterpreting.

In the case of indigenous seats, despite that the left was more supportive that the right, there was some consensus regarding the need to give special seats to indigenous groups across the country that were politically marginalized during our history. And you need to understand that indigenous groups are not necessary left-wing or even center-left. It is well-known that a lot of Mapuches support the right (and I would say that most of the people say the right gets a majority of the Mapuches). For example see the results in La Araucania, this is not a region polarized between white/mestizo voting for the right and the Mapuches voting for the left. The same can be said about other indigenous groups. Despite that, it was important to assure them some voice regarding the elaboration of the constitution.

In addition, the government has the data regarding affiliation to indigenous groups (around 15% of the country) so it was easy to establish a fifth ballot for people that wanted to vote in that election, but it was a choice (if you voted in the indigenous ballot, you weren't able to vote for the regular one).

Regarding gender parity, that was one of the most important yesterday's successes as it was implemented to force political groups to look for women in every district, as the argument was that one of the problems regarding participation of women in politics is that political parties weren't interested in looking for them. What happened at the end? The parity mechanism ended up working in favor of men, as there were 17 switches (12 in favor of a man, 5 to women). It worked out great.

Those mechanisms were important to have a Constitutional Convention that were able to be representative (or close) to what is the country (particularly in a country with serious representation's problems). There were also other mechanism regarding people with disabilities (minimum 5% of the list).

Regarding the nature of private/public economy. Don't expect a full state-dominated economy, but expect a lot of discussion regarding rights on water, pensions, nature, health insurance, sexual minorities, plurinationalism and pollution/environment.

Thank you for your explanation. Why is it the case that there is such a broad consensus on indigenous representation?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Yes, but given the left-wing nature of PS compared to other Latin American parties like PT, I’m interested in hearing some reasons as to what makes the PCCh to be crypto socdems

If the Latin American PT you’re talking about is the Brazilian one, I always saw them as our version of PS. Not necessarily more or less left-wing. There were positive short-term changes but structurally the system was kept because in a democratic system you have to work with tons of different parties to form a majority. Otherwise you do nothing. There are lots of external factors unrelated to the partisan wishes that influence this.

PCC sounds like it’s to the left of both based on the superficial info I read about them. But like kaoras said, if you want to be pragmatic and stay democratic AND relevant you naturally will always somewhat move to the center in practice, even if your campaign rhetoric and internal agenda is more radical.

That’s why I think these Chileans who called it social-democratic would likely say the same about PS and others, or maybe even call them centrists lol

How is the PT not left wing?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Now it is the 48th anniversary of the coup d'etat against Salvador Allende in 1973, and of course the main Chilean newspapers and TV stations are having special coverage on the twin tower attacks. The good news is that La Red tv stations broke the censorship pact of the main tv channels and showed the documentary "La Batalla de Chile", with record-breaking ratings for the station. La Red in the last year has positioned itself as a left-wing channel, a first in Chile where you can reasonably argue that all tv stations are right-leaning, a move that has resulted in harassment from Piñera's Government.

The main presidential candidates made several statements.
Yasna Provoste said:

"Never again human rights violations in Chile, neither before nor now. May the political and social unity of the people never be broken again. (...) My tribute to the memory of President Allende".

Boric:

At the Museum of Memory we remember President Salvador Allende and the Chilean people. Without memory there is no future. Truth, justice and reparation to the victims of human rights violations

Sichel:

Chileans want the future to be much better than the present and that we do not stay stuck in the past. It depends on everyone

Kast hasn't said anything

Also, I want to congratulate the Chilean Right for their astounding advances on human rights. They are truly fully reformed since the Pinochet era. They went from being responsible for murder, torture, sexual violence and arbitrary detentions during Pinochet to ... eh, being responsible for excessive or unnecessary use of force that led to arbitrary deprivation of life and injuries, torture and illtreatment, sexual violence, and arbitrary detentions during Piñera.

As if the Chilean Left did not regularly and egregiously abuse human rights under Allende, and as if the Chilean Left has not continued to do so today in the 2019 protests.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

As if the Chilean Left did not regularly and egregiously abuse human rights under Allende, and as if the Chilean Left did not continue to do so today in the 2019 protests.

Oh yeah, what human rights abuses did the Left commit during Allende? The closest thing you could think of is the MIR which was not part of UP and regularly opposed Allende. And how exactly did the left commit human rights abuses when it was not in power?

Because you are not seriously thinking that throwing a rock to riot-geared police counts as human right abuse, aren't you? (or that the protest was an exclusively left-wing movement for that matter) There are standards for these things, that's why not every single murder in the world is processed at the Haye.

Also, is fairly damming for the Chilean right that even you can't come with a better defence than whataboutism that isn't even really true.

Lol, the MIR was about as separate from Allende as Contreras was from the Pinochet regime, or beat cops in 2019 were from the government. Separately, the Allende government also violated private property rights by collectivizing property.

Yes, rock throwing is assault -- but more importantly, looting, theft and destruction are also violations of rights.

And to your allegation of whataboutism -- when the question the question is violence, obviously one would always prefer to avoid it. But the best reason for its usage is always self defense from another force using violence. To point out that another force is using violence is completely relevant in explaining why force needs to be used in the first place.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Now it is the 48th anniversary of the coup d'etat against Salvador Allende in 1973, and of course the main Chilean newspapers and TV stations are having special coverage on the twin tower attacks. The good news is that La Red tv stations broke the censorship pact of the main tv channels and showed the documentary "La Batalla de Chile", with record-breaking ratings for the station. La Red in the last year has positioned itself as a left-wing channel, a first in Chile where you can reasonably argue that all tv stations are right-leaning, a move that has resulted in harassment from Piñera's Government.

The main presidential candidates made several statements.
Yasna Provoste said:

"Never again human rights violations in Chile, neither before nor now. May the political and social unity of the people never be broken again. (...) My tribute to the memory of President Allende".

Boric:

At the Museum of Memory we remember President Salvador Allende and the Chilean people. Without memory there is no future. Truth, justice and reparation to the victims of human rights violations

Sichel:

Chileans want the future to be much better than the present and that we do not stay stuck in the past. It depends on everyone

Kast hasn't said anything

Also, I want to congratulate the Chilean Right for their astounding advances on human rights. They are truly fully reformed since the Pinochet era. They went from being responsible for murder, torture, sexual violence and arbitrary detentions during Pinochet to ... eh, being responsible for excessive or unnecessary use of force that led to arbitrary deprivation of life and injuries, torture and illtreatment, sexual violence, and arbitrary detentions during Piñera.

As if the Chilean Left did not regularly and egregiously abuse human rights under Allende, and as if the Chilean Left has not continued to do so today in the 2019 protests.

Incompetence in government and arson on the streets are bad, but comparing them to tens of thousands of cases of torture and murder is... interesting. And by interesting, I mean that it's being an ideological hack to the point of denying reality. I bet that you wouldn't like it if someone started defending the state of today's Venezuela by saying "well, thirty years ago the right violated human rights by wasting oil money and they're still violating them by protesting today", would you?

You're right. I wouldn't. But they're not comparable. The left didn't just "protest" in 2019 -- they actively violated the laws of a democratic state because they didn't like the economic structure of that state. That's wrong because change in a democratic, non-rights violating state should come through the ballot box, not violent. By contrast, Venezuela isn't a democratic state, so the situation is completely different.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

There are some Lisbon suburbs that are quite problematic, Cova da Moura and Jamaica, for example. (Cova da Moura image from Público newspaper, and Jamaica image from RTP)

These poor neighborhoods is something almost every place has. There’s way more inequality in Chile than just that photo kaoras posted.

Sometimes I have the impression people outside have this impression that Chile looks more like Europe than they look like Latin American neighbors and that just doesn’t match with reality. It’s actually a very wrong idea.

I played enough GeoGuessr to have an idea of how Chile and other neighbors are like and most places there aren’t really that different. If I’m honest, I think Argentina and Uruguay tend to be the ones better well-preserved in South America and even them have some places that look poorer than those pics you’re bringing (I’m thinking just outside of CABA, in the outskirts of Buenos Aires).

And the poverty existing in Chile becomes much harder to understand when you consider they supposedly are richer. Same way US is sold as richest place on Earth (and they are) but they still have some disturbing poor stuff and dystopian reality that don’t even exist even in much poorer places. I get absolutely shocked not only with the healthcare there, but with the growing number of homeless people, drug addicts and dangerous neighborhoods.

Even if the average infrastructure is obviously better (as it should be, considering their money), it still feels very underwhelming considering what you would expect. And that’s effect of inequality, wealth being concentrated between the richest naturally makes the poor be and look poorer. The wealth is not well-distributed and gets to be concentrated in the hands of only some.

Portugal may look poorer in EU context, but it’s small stuff compared to Chile or average American country.



Btw, I had no idea of the inequality data when I was making this post, but I decided to search it and it turns out Argentina and Uruguay really are the lowest in South America! Knew my instinct based on street viewing was right. Turns out wealth distribution and inequality really describes better how majority of people feel regarding their country “wealth” than simple GDP numbers.

I was right about Peru being more equal than Chile too, but I was wrong about Bolivia But honestly, let’s just agree that all the Americas (except Canada) is very unequal continent in comparison to Europe or Asia.

And being Rich and unequal (Chile) sometimes has not that much difference between being Poor and equal (like India according to the map). Depends on who you are. The 10% richest can live like the rich people in Scandinavia and the rest of the 90% live in precarious situation. Who represents more of the country landscape, the rich living all concentrated in some few fancy snob big city neighborhoods or the poor spread all around the country?

Basically, the rich being very rich doesn’t mean the country itself is rich to most people actual experience.

From most equal to most unequal:

Argentina, Uruguay, Nicaragua
-
 Mexico, Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador, El Salvador, DR
-
Chile, Brazil, Paraguay, Panama, Costa Rica
-
Colombia, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, Haiti

To this comment and other comments in this thread:

Yes, averages may not always represent a situation perfectly, but Chile is still the second wealthiest country in Latin America by median income (after Uruguay, which has a very different historical/economic situation). Obviously, there are many internal issues with the health system etc, but the data is clear that Chile has substantially benefitted since the end of the dictatorship, or, if we're looking at a more macro level, since the introduction of a free market system. Poverty is just a quarter of what it was 20 years ago (36% in 2000, 8.6% in 2017), incomes have risen (hard to find year by year median income data, but average incomes have gone up and median incomes are some of the highest in Latin America), and the GDP has grown. Of course there is more to do -- there always is -- but it is clear that there Chile has achieved substantial progress, and that those improvements have benefitted the population as a whole.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

What is Artes saying?

Ah, the usual, no to the militarization of the Mapuche Conflict and saying that every form of fighting is valid for them until they achieve independence, putting the army to do something productive for once and make them build social housing, saying his program doesn't have a cost because he doesn't follow capitalist logic and that he would get the money by nationalizing the natural resources. He also tried to give his opening minute as a minute of silence for a woman that die in the protests last week, but was interrupted by one of the moderators.

Artés is my dream protest vote tbh.

As for the debate in general, there are 2 consensus: Provoste was among the winners, and Sichel was the worst. Analysts also highlighted that the leftist candidates seemed to have a tacit accord, not attacking each other and coordinating in taking down Sichel and Kast. While there wasn't any actual pre-debate coordination, it was very pleasing to see them helping each other and displaying unity (save for Artés that constantly attacked Boric, which actually helps him since it makes him look more moderate).

How did Kast do?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

So a recent poll shows Kast and Boric tied in the second round. Boric is most likely going to win this but the very fact it exists is depressing.

I feel like there's no way this can stand. He's far right, way past the Overton window in Chile. This has to come from lack of information about him among regular voters.

Kast is less extreme than Boric.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

So a recent poll shows Kast and Boric tied in the second round. Boric is most likely going to win this but the very fact it exists is depressing.

I think Kast is actually the favorite. He keeps a nonstop growing trend, who knows how much he can reach?

Chile unfortunately is succumbing to the more populist and “anti-establishment” option after the protests. But oh well, at least the new leftist constitution change will be worth it.

Kast isn't the one who wants to destroy the Chilean economic system. In a Kast vs Boric runoff Kast is closer to the status quo than Boric.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Every latin american election always somehow ends up as a contest between far-right and far-left.

Nope, Argentina has never had a far-left of far-right candidate getting the first or second place, other than Perón's third term and afaik that he was deep into conspiracies, murder plots, and that his closest ally was the leader of a far right paramilitary group were all hidden from most people before the election

And then there's Uruguay, Mexico, Costa Rica, Brazil before Bolsonaro, Chile until this election, Ecuador's leaders may've mostly been corrupt sh*theads but they weren't anywhere near the far left or far right other than for purely opportunistic reasons

Enjoy while you can.

And you say it yourselves, Brazil before Bolsonaro, Chile until this election. In Mexico, US media called AMLO a communist as well, and his opponent might be quite far-right as well during the next election.

AMLO is Mexican Jimmy Carter in terms of his small "c" conservative fiscal policy.

What?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Every latin american election always somehow ends up as a contest between far-right and far-left.

Nope, Argentina has never had a far-left of far-right candidate getting the first or second place, other than Perón's third term and afaik that he was deep into conspiracies, murder plots, and that his closest ally was the leader of a far right paramilitary group were all hidden from most people before the election

And then there's Uruguay, Mexico, Costa Rica, Brazil before Bolsonaro, Chile until this election, Ecuador's leaders may've mostly been corrupt sh*theads but they weren't anywhere near the far left or far right other than for purely opportunistic reasons

Enjoy while you can.

And you say it yourselves, Brazil before Bolsonaro, Chile until this election. In Mexico, US media called AMLO a communist as well, and his opponent might be quite far-right as well during the next election.

AMLO is Mexican Jimmy Carter in terms of his small "c" conservative fiscal policy.

What?

Bloomberg: Lopez Obrador Is Making Mexico’s Tragedy Worse

The inadequacy of Mexico’s pandemic response should be kept in some perspective, considering the failures of other countries to contain the virus. Less defensible is Lopez Obrador’s handling of the economy. Unlike the leaders of most major economies, he has rebuffed calls for aggressive fiscal stimulus to support workers and businesses. The government’s spending commitments amount to about 3% of GDP — one-third what G-20 countries as a whole are spending — and much of it is money repurposed from other programs. The funds are being doled out as microloans to small businesses, up to a maximum of just $25,000 pesos ($1,150), which most have already exhausted. Larger companies in the formal economy, which employs some 40% of Mexico’s labor force, have received no government assistance.

That doesn't make him a conservative.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Every latin american election always somehow ends up as a contest between far-right and far-left.

Nope, Argentina has never had a far-left of far-right candidate getting the first or second place, other than Perón's third term and afaik that he was deep into conspiracies, murder plots, and that his closest ally was the leader of a far right paramilitary group were all hidden from most people before the election

And then there's Uruguay, Mexico, Costa Rica, Brazil before Bolsonaro, Chile until this election, Ecuador's leaders may've mostly been corrupt sh*theads but they weren't anywhere near the far left or far right other than for purely opportunistic reasons

Enjoy while you can.

And you say it yourselves, Brazil before Bolsonaro, Chile until this election. In Mexico, US media called AMLO a communist as well, and his opponent might be quite far-right as well during the next election.

AMLO is Mexican Jimmy Carter in terms of his small "c" conservative fiscal policy.

What?

The key to understanding AMLO is that he idealizes the late one-party PRI era and its ideological non-commitments, policies, and prosperity under a veneer of revolutionary socialism.

Completely agreed. But that doesn't make him either Conservative or conservative. AMLO is a left-wing welfare populist. The primary reason he opposes stimulus is because he views it as a giveaway to the rich, not because he's a champion of the free market.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

It’ll almost certainly be Kast vs Boric in the second round. Honestly with the way undecideds/never-votes look for the second round I’d say Kast’s got it, god help us

People here swear it's going to be a Kast landslide. In Reddit people are sure that Kast is going to underperfom. In a discord full of rich right-wingers (and from where I get the poll leaks) they mostly believe that polls are correct.

So, well, what will happen seems to be anyone's guess. A good rule of thumb is to see whatever the consensus among political analysts is and predict that what is going to happen is exactly the opposite of that. Their consensus seems to be that is a very "liquid" election where Boric and Kast are favored but with not overwhelming support. So, eh, maybe Boric and Kast get both easily over 30? One of them doesn't get to the runoff?

This is truly the most uncertain election

Would you mind sharing a link to that discord?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-22/chile-peso-stocks-jump-as-right-wing-leads-presidential-race

"Chile Peso, Stocks Soar as Election Boosts Resurgent Right Wing"

Stock markets up more than 8%

But I was told Kast was an extremist who hates democracy!

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Well he is, pretty much.

New to how stock markets work are we?

Markets don't tend to like anti-democratic leaders. If Kast was truly anti-democratic/an extremist who was going to end democracy in Chile markets would fall, not rise.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

The manipulative tactics deployed by reactionaries and friends of the apartheid state are intolerable.  Gabriel Boric says in that tweet "thank you for the gift", but also says: " if your commitment to a fairer society is true, you should ask Israel to put and end to the illegal occupation". Certainly asking Israel to be fair and democratic is antisemitic, while endorsing or turning a blind eye to the abhorrent apartheid regime are the norm.

I will tell all the reactionaries, islamophobes,  hasbara trolls and pinkwashers that I have watched the film 'Shoah' at least twice. Also, I don't buy anything made in Israel and don't accept insults from miserable apartheidists

Gabriel Boric serms to be a decent person

If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Well some might respond in that way - would they get called "anti-Chinese" for doing so?

And the irony of a blue avatar calling out AS - given that so many of their sort basically believe "WE SUPPORT ISRAEL SO THAT THEY CAN ALL PERISH IN THE RAPTURE" - has not gone unnoticed

I am Jewish. And if you can point me to anyone saying that, I will condemn that as well. Regardless, this is a thread about Chile. Let's not let whataboutism take us off-topic from Chile's new President.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

Also, follow-up: What? Israel has never annexed the West Bank.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

Did you notice that, besides being "the best friend of Israel", Donald Trump is an obvious antisemite? Rabidly pro-Israel antisemites. Are you capable to understand the irony?

Answering to your question, it is totally impossible that a "Ramadan organization" is willing to send a gift to Donald Trump (unless those mean Muslims are trolling, of course)

It happens Donald Trump is also a notorious islamophobe.  Did you know Arabs are a semitic people? Orange haired populists hate brown people

Definitely if the AIPAC or its Chilean counterpart send me a jar of honey, I will ask them to condemn Apartheid Israel.

This thread is going off-topic and derailing thanks to your insidious claims about Boric. Isn't it ironic that you complain for that?

I don't believe Donald Trump is anti-semite.

Here's an Iftar dinner with Donald Trump in attendance, and Muslim-American leaders: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-hosts-first-iftar-dinner-recognizes-islam-one-world-s-n880841.

Anti-Semitism refers to Jew hatred.

This wasn't AIPAC, it was literally the Jewish community of Chile. Here's their webpage, https://www.cjch.cl/, you can see for yourself that it's not some Chilean-Israeli alliance organization.

The new President of Chile's anti-semitic remarks seem pretty directly relevant to a thread on Chilean politics. I'm disappointed that you don't think that's important. I'm also disappointed that you've avoided my earlier question: If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?