4 Senate "Democrats" prove they absolutely hate the poor

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

There was a cloture vote on a permanent complete repeal of the estate tax.  It failed 57-41. Baucus, Lincoln, and both Nelsons voted AYE.  2 Democrats were absent.

Roll call vote should be here, but it mysteriously disappeared.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00164

Can someone explain to me how Ben Nelson is a Democrat?

[Keystone Phil]

God bless them. I didn't expect this from someone like Blanche Lincoln.

Can someone explain to me how Ben Nelson is a Democrat?

I don't know why he is but I do know he's my favorite Senate Dem. This is just another reason why I really like the guy.

[Richard]

Repealing estate tax = helping and loving the poor

Your brain isn't functioning.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Repealing estate tax = helping and loving the poor

Your brain isn't functioning.

How the hell does it help the poor? Talk about a brain-dead attack.

[TeePee4Prez]

There was a cloture vote on a permanent complete repeal of the estate tax.  It failed 57-41. Baucus, Lincoln, and both Nelsons voted AYE.  2 Democrats were absent.

Roll call vote should be here, but it mysteriously disappeared.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00164

Can someone explain to me how Ben Nelson is a Democrat?

Yeah, that is a little f-ed up.  The estate tax brings in a few hundred million in revenue.  Wonder where they're gonna get it from.

Why is Ben Nelson a Democrat?  Is he becoming a Zell Miller?

[Keystone Phil]

Roll call vote should be here, but it mysteriously disappeared.

CIA conspiracy? Jeb and Harris at it again?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

There was a cloture vote on a permanent complete repeal of the estate tax.  It failed 57-41. Baucus, Lincoln, and both Nelsons voted AYE.  2 Democrats were absent.

Roll call vote should be here, but it mysteriously disappeared.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00164

Can someone explain to me how Ben Nelson is a Democrat?

Yeah, that is a little f-ed up.  The estate tax brings in a few hundred million in revenue.  Wonder where they're gonna get it from.

Why is Ben Nelson a Democrat?  Is he becoming a Zell Miller?

It brings in more than that. There are 18 wealthy families pushing hard to permanently repeal it. Those 18 families alone stand to save $72 billion.

[Richard]

There was a cloture vote on a permanent complete repeal of the estate tax.  It failed 57-41. Baucus, Lincoln, and both Nelsons voted AYE.  2 Democrats were absent.

Roll call vote should be here, but it mysteriously disappeared.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00164

Can someone explain to me how Ben Nelson is a Democrat?

Yeah, that is a little f-ed up.  The estate tax brings in a few hundred million in revenue.  Wonder where they're gonna get it from.

Why is Ben Nelson a Democrat?  Is he becoming a Zell Miller?

It brings in more than that. There are 18 wealthy families pushing hard to permanently repeal it. Those 18 families alone stand to save $72 billion.

And seeing other people make money and you not justifies stealing their money to give to you.  Aren't you honorable.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

There was a cloture vote on a permanent complete repeal of the estate tax.  It failed 57-41. Baucus, Lincoln, and both Nelsons voted AYE.  2 Democrats were absent.

Roll call vote should be here, but it mysteriously disappeared.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00164

Can someone explain to me how Ben Nelson is a Democrat?

Yeah, that is a little f-ed up.  The estate tax brings in a few hundred million in revenue.  Wonder where they're gonna get it from.

Why is Ben Nelson a Democrat?  Is he becoming a Zell Miller?

It brings in more than that. There are 18 wealthy families pushing hard to permanently repeal it. Those 18 families alone stand to save $72 billion.

And seeing other people make money and you not justifies stealing their money to give to you.  Aren't you honorable.

You claimed that getting rid of the estate tax helps the poor. Can you elaborate instead of mindlessly attacking me for wanting the rich to pay their fair shar?

[J. J.]

Repealing estate tax = helping and loving the poor

Your brain isn't functioning.

How the hell does it help the poor? Talk about a brain-dead attack.

In some cases, the estates are small business assets, that employ a few people and do not produce huge wealth for the owners.  The owner dies, the heirs get hit with the tax and close or cut down on expenses, by firing employees.  More unemployment.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Repealing estate tax = helping and loving the poor

Your brain isn't functioning.

How the hell does it help the poor? Talk about a brain-dead attack.

In some cases, the estates are small business assets, that employ a few people and do not produce huge wealth for the owners.  The owner dies, the heirs get hit with the tax and close or cut down on expenses, by firing employees.  More unemployment.

They can't be too small a business or they won't be taxed. Anything under $2 million for an individual or $4 million for a couple is completely untaxed.  Nice try at right-wing propaganda, but it failed.

[Richard]

It helps the poor by helping the rest of society.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It helps the poor by helping the rest of society.

The richest 0.1% is not the rest of society.

[J. J.]

Repealing estate tax = helping and loving the poor

Your brain isn't functioning.

How the hell does it help the poor? Talk about a brain-dead attack.

In some cases, the estates are small business assets, that employ a few people and do not produce huge wealth for the owners.  The owner dies, the heirs get hit with the tax and close or cut down on expenses, by firing employees.  More unemployment.

They can't be too small a business or they won't be taxed. Anything under $2 million for an individual or $4 million for a couple is completely untaxed.  Nice try at right-wing propaganda, but it failed.

A small business can easily have more than $2 million in assets.  I'm not talking GM, Wall-mart or Microsoft.  Something like a family owned trucking business/moving business, a small family owned medical practice or legal practice, a moderately large farm.  Even something like a large restaurant can get above that amount.  Even someone with 3-4 dry cleaning stores, or 2 or 3 funeral homes, would be above that.

We're talking reality, no right wing anything.

[jerusalemcar5]

At least one Republican (Voinovich) has a conscience. 

This whole thing is ridiculous.  We'll cut social programs to help the poor to save money, but eliminate those savings by repealing the tax on the rich. 

This is just sad.

[WalterMitty]

freedom fighters.

[Nym90]

I agree that repeal of this tax is a bad idea as things currently stand.

As for Nelson, he's the most liberal person who is likely to be able to be elected from Nebraska.

[Boris]

I agree that repeal of this tax is a bad idea as things currently stand.

As for Nelson, he's the most liberal person who is likely to be able to be elected from Nebraska.

Is Nelson more or less conservative than Bob Kerrey?

[Nym90]

I agree that repeal of this tax is a bad idea as things currently stand.

As for Nelson, he's the most liberal person who is likely to be able to be elected from Nebraska.

Is Nelson more or less conservative than Bob Kerrey?

Well that's true, Kerrey was probably overall more liberal, though he was still quite moderate.

[TeePee4Prez]

Repealing estate tax = helping and loving the poor

Your brain isn't functioning.

How the hell does it help the poor? Talk about a brain-dead attack.

In some cases, the estates are small business assets, that employ a few people and do not produce huge wealth for the owners.  The owner dies, the heirs get hit with the tax and close or cut down on expenses, by firing employees.  More unemployment.

They can't be too small a business or they won't be taxed. Anything under $2 million for an individual or $4 million for a couple is completely untaxed.  Nice try at right-wing propaganda, but it failed.

A small business can easily have more than $2 million in assets.  I'm not talking GM, Wall-mart or Microsoft.  Something like a family owned trucking business/moving business, a small family owned medical practice or legal practice, a moderately large farm.  Even something like a large restaurant can get above that amount.  Even someone with 3-4 dry cleaning stores, or 2 or 3 funeral homes, would be above that.

We're talking reality, no right wing anything.

I agree there should be a higher exemption amount, but by no means should it be repealed.  I could agree with an amount no greater than say $15 million though.  Repealing it completely is totally plutocratic and keeps money in the hands of the very few. 

[dazzleman]

I think there should definitely be a higher exemption amount, and it should be indexed to inflation.

As always with the federal tax code, there is an element of regional discrimination here.  With home values in this part of the country, an estate of $1 million + is not at all unusual here, even for a person who lived a relatively modest life.  In this section of the country, a net worth of $1-2 million late in life is that of an upper middle class person, not a wealthy one.

This tax should be hitting the truly wealthy, not the upper middle class.  I'd put an exemption amount of $5-10 million on it.  That would easily rope in the 18 families that jfern is talking about.

I don't necessarily support full repeal of the tax for practical reasons.  I'd much sooner lower taxes on working people given the choice, despite the fact that I have some philosophical problems with the estate tax.  Still, in many ways, the government facilitates tax-free inheritance, through mechanisms like adjusted basis, which allows those who inherit real estate to set their tax basis at the value the property had the time of inheritance, and thereby avoid the tax on the increase in value from the time the decedant (sp?) purchased the property.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

repeal that tax

[Sam Spade]

I think there should definitely be a higher exemption amount, and it should be indexed to inflation.

As always with the federal tax code, there is an element of regional discrimination here.  With home values in this part of the country, an estate of $1 million + is not at all unusual here, even for a person who lived a relatively modest life.  In this section of the country, a net worth of $1-2 million late in life is that of an upper middle class person, not a wealthy one.

This tax should be hitting the truly wealthy, not the upper middle class.  I'd put an exemption amount of $5-10 million on it.  That would easily rope in the 18 families that jfern is talking about.

This is quite correct, actually.

Interestingly, I could support an estate tax of some sort, but at a higher exemption than now ($10 million, probably), indexed to inflation, and tightening up the loopholes.  That would get the ultra-rich, without hitting most of the small businesses and eliminating regional bias (which would screw people the strongest along the coasts).

You see, at present there are plenty of loopholes around, so most family businesses who the present estate tax hits, including mine, who have any financial sense, use these loopholes to get around the estate tax.  So do the ultra-rich.  Of course, some people like paying taxes.  Those people are stupid, frankly.

[dazzleman]

I think there should definitely be a higher exemption amount, and it should be indexed to inflation.

As always with the federal tax code, there is an element of regional discrimination here.  With home values in this part of the country, an estate of $1 million + is not at all unusual here, even for a person who lived a relatively modest life.  In this section of the country, a net worth of $1-2 million late in life is that of an upper middle class person, not a wealthy one.

This tax should be hitting the truly wealthy, not the upper middle class.  I'd put an exemption amount of $5-10 million on it.  That would easily rope in the 18 families that jfern is talking about.

This is quite correct, actually.

Interestingly, I could support an estate tax of some sort, but at a higher exemption than now ($10 million, probably), indexed to inflation, and tightening up the loopholes.  That would get the ultra-rich, without hitting most of the small businesses and eliminating regional bias (which would screw people the strongest along the coasts).

You see, at present there are plenty of loopholes around, so most family businesses who the present estate tax hits, including mine, who have any financial sense, use these loopholes to get around the estate tax.  So do the ultra-rich.  Of course, some people like paying taxes.  Those people are stupid, frankly.

What happens when the exemption is too low, and there are loopholes, is that the truly rich can employ highly skilled lawyers and accountants to find a way around paying the tax (trusts being one of the biggest ones), while those who are less wealthy and don't have the means for those types schemes, or who aren't wealthy enough to risk the irrevocable transfer of a substantial portion of their assets while they are still alive, end up paying the tax.

So I agree with you Sam -- a higher exemption with much fewer loopholes.  Kind of the same approach I have to the speed limit.   Seriously though, across the board, I tend to favor fewer laws, but making them meaningful and serve their intended purpose.  It makes no sense to have a law intended for the very rich that snares upper middle class working people, while allowing those with greater wealth to escape it.

[Democratic Hawk]

You come into the world with nowt and you die with nowt. Fact!. Though Egyptian Pharoah's had a habit of taking it with them

To quote old Albert Steptoe (a Tory BTW) in Steptoe and Son when his son, Harold (a Labour supporter) is planning for the future of his "son", with his inheritance from the auld fella, such as an Eton education, "He can stand on his own two feet like I had to, I don't approve of inherited wealth"

Dave