Mideast Governer Thread

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Thought I'd set this up now

Is there anything I should have done that I've not done yet? Not really been able to spend much time on fantasy stuff recently, so I mighthave missed something.

An important announcement will be made shortly.

---
Al

[afleitch]

Is there anything I should have done that I've not done yet?

Swear in I forgot to do it re the SoS post until late yesterday evening UK time. Having said that welcome to the position, just don't change the curtains

[MasterJedi]

So what's the important announcement?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'll be brief; basically I'm not satisfied that our current Government setup is very good... and I would also like to see us have a Government system that is unique to our region and not just another pale standard-issue...
Now personally I would favour scrapping all elected or appointed positions, except Governer, and have an elected council of three or four (if four it would be chaired by the Governer) people run things. Ideally elections for such a body would be contested; otherwise there isn't much point in having one.
Citizens would still have the right to call referendums and so on.
But that's just my opinion; before working out anything for us all to vote on, I would like to here the suggestions of Mideast citizens. What sort of system would you all like to see?

[MasterJedi]

Well I'll be against that. Unless we tripled our members it wouldn't be good IMO.

[Frodo]

I'll be brief; basically I'm not satisfied that our current Government setup is very good... and I would also like to see us have a Government system that is unique to our region and not just another pale standard-issue...
Now personally I would favour scrapping all elected or appointed positions, except Governer, and have an elected council of three or four (if four it would be chaired by the Governer) people run things. Ideally elections for such a body would be contested; otherwise there isn't much point in having one.
Citizens would still have the right to call referendums and so on.
But that's just my opinion; before working out anything for us all to vote on, I would like to here the suggestions of Mideast citizens. What sort of system would you all like to see?

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see what's so wrong with our current system that you feel the need to change it so drastically. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well I'll be against that. Unless we tripled our members it wouldn't be good IMO.

I think we have about 19 or 20 voters right now; that's easily enough to support four elected officials. Besides until very recently we more-or-less had three anyway. And of those three, only one ever *has* to do anything...
What I want to move away from is the tendency for regional government to be either dole out positions to everyone or for there to be only one regional post that's actually worth anything. Both of these things are (IMO) damaging regional politics; no one actually wants to get involved anymore and there are no real incentives to get people involved. And as regional politics is the grassroots of Atlasia as a whole, the game itself is being damaged.
Having contested elections is the whole point of this game; and it's something that we've been moving away from at all levels.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see what's so wrong with our current system that you feel the need to change it so drastically. 

There are quite a few problems with our current system:

1. As stated above, the only position with any real power is Governer. There were no candidates for Lt.Gov. (the previous incumbent won via a write-in) and that says something...
2. Legislation via referendum is nice in theory I guess, but in practice we've lost (or never had) a reflective element to it; the great advantage that a legislature of some kind has over referendums is the ability to think things over, debate them, and try to change them before a vote. We don't really have that at the moment. And the lack of a legislature means no permanent politics and nothing to keep newcomers interested in the Mideast...
3. Perhaps more importantly, the Mideast seems to be slowly, but surely, dying. As such it makes sense to at least *try* something new; if it doesn't work, then we try something else. But I'm increasingly thinking that we do have to try *something*...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If we couldn't get a Lt. Governor to run, why would people run for the other offices?

The office of Lt.Gov. has very little power basically. There's no incentive to run for any Mideast office other than Governer.
There's also a historical element to it; Lt.Gov. used to go to whoever finished second in Gubernatorial elections in the Mideast. In some ways the office has never really shaken off the consolation prize tag.

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If something like this is adopted (and, btw, thanks to everyone who's responded to this) then it still will be similer to other regions. And if (as is much more likely) some mild reforms get through, that's even more the case.

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I don't think anywhere else has an elected legislature (if three people can be called a legislature). Several Regions make every registered voter a member of their legislature; something that I've always felt is a bad idea.

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True, but there's nothing wrong with building our own identity as well. The Mideast always used to be one of the most Radical of the regions and our system of Government has never really stood still.

[afleitch]

Withb all due respect Mr Governor I am strongly opposed to the system you have sketched out as I believe it derives the citizens the power of initiative proposal. It leaves the citizens nothing to contribute but turning out to vote and the occasional referendum and an elected oligarchy. If as you correctly point out it was difficult to get candidated to run for the elected posts as they were (part of the reason I supported the abolition of the Superior Court Judge) including the last governors election, what makes you think people are going to run for a greatly expanded elected legislature of up to 4 people?

To be honest I'm actually dissapointed. This was not proposed to the citizens of the Mideast before they elected you, one horse race or not.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

as I believe it derives the citizens the power of initiative proposal.

I've not proposed doing away with that.

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Which is what they do now.

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As opposed to an unelected and informal one? Besides the argument of elected oligarchy can *just* as easily be used against the current Federal setup (and o/c most of the posts in the Federal government aren't even elected) and I've yet to see it used.
It would, o/c, have to be easy to kick out members of the legislature as well (actually it would be encouraged).

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Seeing as a legislature would actually have a meaningful role of some kind, optimism.

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The idea wasn't even close to be presentable at the time. The Atlasian electorate has swallowed enough half-baked ideas and dubious promises over the years...
... although if I *had* had an opponent I would have had to have mentioned that such an idea might be possible.

[afleitch]

You said citizens would have the right to call 'referendums and so on.' You didn't elaborate on the 'so on' which led me to believe you were not interested in maintaining the power of initiative. Even with the power of initiative I would still oppose the system as I see it as a needless change to the system for such a limited number of participants.

We had 8 voters last month, 7 and 9 for the most recent amendements. Add 3 more elected positions they will probably be filled by 3 of those 7-9 (6-8 if you exclude the governor) but would probably be uncontested races. We are too small to have an elected legislature. An open legislature like the Southeast could work, as everyone would participate in debate.

And you still could have mentioned this proposal even without an opponent.

[afleitch]

Isn't it possible however, that an abundance of open positions may entice voters as well as potential candidates to move here? I'm not advocating carpetbagging, but it would increase voter turnout.

If more voters joined (as in around a dozen in order to make it viable) fair enough, but if it enticed carpetbaggers I would turn even more against it L I'm always wary of people who move about because they can't get elected in their own region, not that it's happened recently. It's excusable if they are specifically invited to move to a region due to a voter and candidate shortage of course.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You didn't elaborate on the 'so on' which led me to believe you were not interested in maintaining the power of initiative.

Why? If I didn't mention the power of initiative, then it should be assumed that I'd have no intention of changing it.
Besides these are not concrete proposals; they're ideas, and about as radical as I thought I might have had half a chance of getting through. I do expect them to be changed and moderated, but at the same time I also expect that some changes will happen (and some changes are needed if the Mideast region is to remain viable).

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We don't have many participants, but so what? The point of this game is elections...

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Yes, I do know about the fact that few people bother to vote anymore (which would seem to indicate to me that all is not well with the current system). That something that has to change. We also need new voters. We are not going to get either with the current system.

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I would disagree with that, but that's not the point. Bearing in mind how bad things have got of late (and it's been a longterm decline and is obviously no one's fault) I do think that we have to try something and I'm more than willing to compromise and to hear other ideas.
I do think that the position of Lt.Gov. has to go; it has no useful purpose (if Gov. is vacant, just hold an immediate by-election) and I think that point was made quite clear to everyone.

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An open legislature would be a disaster IMO (it would just encourage cronyism and there's no way of kicking out bad legislators) and goes against the point of the game; elections.

However... it does give me half an idea...

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I couldn't have done, because this proposal didn't really exist then. It's not even finished now (but I thought it would be better for all Citizens to have a look and shout down bits that they don't like).
I think I did mention that I intended to radically reform things (and if I didn't I certainly intended to write that).

[afleitch]

I understand what you are saying- but I just don't believe it will work or remain practical in the long term- the first election to such an executive may be a competative race, but we could see it affected by apathy, inactivity and a small voter turnout and then 4 or 5 months down the line someone willl propose we scrap the whole trhing and go back to where we are now.

Voting has fallen and almost halved since the start of this year in line with the fall in activity across the whole forum (halved since January after months of growth with a small boost in May) which I tried to counter by encouraging more propositions and inititiatives than my predecessor had done which led me, frustratingly I may add, to believe that activity will only rise in the Mideast when it rises across the board and across the forum

Once you set out your proposals for good I'll have a look at them and consider the implications and what it means, but at the moment i'm just very wary of what has been sketched out.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

We've just lost another voter...

I understand what you are saying- but I just don't believe it will work or remain practical in the long term- the first election to such an executive may be a competative race, but we could see it affected by apathy, inactivity and a small voter turnout and then 4 or 5 months down the line someone willl propose we scrap the whole trhing and go back to where we are now.

Could happen I guess. I was going off the Wiki numbers for registered voters...
I have another idea now...

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Oh fair enough; expect an update later today. Any ideas of your own? (no matter how crazy?)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some alternative ideas (thoughts on them would be very welcome; thank you to all those who responded to the initial musings) around the idea of everyone-being-a-member-of-the-legislature... both ideas are sort of back-of-an-envelope but...

*Everyone in the region (except the Governer) is automatically made a candidate for some sort of Assembly election. The size of the assembly would always be a certain number of seats less than the total number of registered voters in the region.

Or:

*In times of emergency or crises or whatever, the Governer can call a special Assembly made up of every registered voter in the region. The powers of such an Assembly would (unlike the two other suggestions) have to be quite extensive... but (equally unlike the other two suggestions) it might be an idea to allow the Governer to dissolve the Assembly when the crisis is over/if needed etc.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Comments would be welcome...

[MasterJedi]

Not enough people to do it and I just think it's plain stupid. I really wish you would have said what you were planning before you got elected.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not enough people to do it

Which idea? The first one? The second one? Or all three? (o/c I don't see how "not enough people" can be applied to the third idea; plenty of other regions now make every citizen a member of their legislature and while I have some criticisms of that, it works well enough for them, although maybe it can be).

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No need for that.

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Like I said earlier, that would have been impossible as these ideas were either not fully formed then, or had not even been thought up.
And I believe that I did say that I intended to attempt to make some reforms.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Any more comments citizens? Any ideas? I think it's *fairly* clear that we have a serious problem on our hands, and I'd like you all to help...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Comments, ideas, etc?

Free water with every proposal!

[afleitch]

To be honest, I would prefer things to be left as they are. I don't think sweeping changes will entice people back to vote or to register and I'm worried we will adopt a system that gets chucked out 6 months down the line.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To be honest, I would prefer things to be left as they are. I don't think sweeping changes will entice people back to vote or to register and I'm worried we will adopt a system that gets chucked out 6 months down the line.

Doing nothing won't exactly help things either.

But it does seem that sweeping changes would be hard to impliment at the moment, and the region has a lot of other problems.

As a stopgap of sorts I think I'll write up the third idea (ie; the Assembly of all Citizens called during a time of emergency) and stick it on the ballot; unlike the other ideas it wouldn't have any effect on the day-to-day running of the region, or on elections. I feel tempted to call it a Moot.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

O.K... if I've done something technical wrong, please tell me (never been very good with procedural etc. things...)

I gave the Moot idea and came up with the Amendment below; essentially it's a bit of a compromise, in that while it's a radical reform to the system of Government here, it's designed to strengthen, rather than to replace, what we have now.
I also designed it to act as a check on the office of Governer.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Fifth Amendment

1. The Governer shall have the power to call an Assembly of all Citizens that shall be known as the Moot.
2. The Moot shall have the power to pass legislation and to make recommendations to the Governer.
3. The Governer shall be able to dismiss a Moot at a time of his choosing.
4. If more than a third of Citizens sign a petition calling for a Moot, then a Moot shall be called whether the Governer wants one or not.
5. A Moot called by the People cannot be dissolved by the Governer, but may vote to dissolve itself.