COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I'm confused as to why you all are so strung up over wearing masks. You have the freedom to do literally whatever you did pre-pandemic, yet you're all acting as if we're still living under March 2020-era lockdowns because some places want you to wear a face covering.

Do you still have a hard time breathing with it on, or something?

It’s obviously not on the scale of March 2020, but it is definitely not true that everything that was open pre-pandemic is now available.  Concerts, festivals, and conventions are still being postponed.  International travel is still really difficult.  And many of the restaurants around me still have not reopened for in-person dining.

At this point the only point where there is still government intervention is international travel, and issues are most likely due to the actions of foreign governments as the US travel policies are rather mild, just get vaccinated and tested. All the other points are the free market reacting to the new normal. So what's your problem? You want to force the free market to cater towards the old normal that no longer exists? Force conventions and concerts to be held despite lack of demand and at risk of legal liability for hosting superspreader events?

lacK Of DeMAnd: https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/08/02/lollapalooza-had-more-than-385000-people-officials-announce-after-lightfoot-defended-holding-fest-during-pandemic/

lacK Of DeMAnd: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/29/spider-man-no-way-home-ticket-demand-crashed-box-office-sites.html

lacK Of DeMAnd: https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2021/12/01/michigan-football-vs-ohio-state-ratings-most-watched-college-football-game/

I'm seeing the new Spider-Man movie next Thursday night and the theater is almost completely booked. This is in Washington DC, not Trump Country Oklahoma. You may not be ready and probably never will be for the rest of your life, but most people are.

Last year, gas was cheap because people weren't getting out that much. But guess what? Gas prices have gone up this year because people are traveling again.

You missed my point entirely. The post I quoted bemoaned that various concerts and festivals had cut back or cancelled their events, and that some restaurants had closed their dining rooms, clearly intending to blame the government, Joe Biden, and other Democrats. My point is that this blame is entirely misplaced as any "blame" for that is entirely on the free market. If event organizers felt they could hold the events profitably, then they would hold the events. Otherwise they will cancel. Clearly these events are being cancelled because of lack of demand or the risk of being sued is too high. This is the free market. Movie theaters are open because there is ample demand and there is just about no way to prove that you caught COVID while watching the movie, basically shielding them from lawsuits. Whether there should be demand or not is another story and entirely subjective but I'm making an objective statement that it's not the government shutting anybody down.

And by the way, I have watched movies in a theater during the pandemic. It's easy to stay safe. Just put on an N95 mask and don't eat or drink anything. See what happens when you get past "feelings" and come to recognize masks as the zero cost, low effort mitigation measure they are?

I don’t really blame Biden at all for the pandemic response.  He’s done his best to implement vaccine mandates to the extent feasible given his powers.  And he’s hasn’t demanded any shut downs or national mask mandates, etc.  Executive branch failures lie much more with agencies like the CDC, FDA, and TSA, which should be independent from Biden.  Congress should really have just passed a national vaccine mandate a year ago and we’d have been out of this whole thing by last Spring.  

But the real failure lies with the media.  They are really leveraging the public’s innumeracy to stoke irrational fears.  Just look at the coverage of Omicron…the early data suggested that this variant was at least as likely to be good news toward ending the pandemic as it was bad news.  And yet when presented with uncertainty, the media only wants to present the most pessimistic possibilities, discussing Omicron’s possible increased transmissibiliy or ability to evade vaccines.

Most of the failures to return to normal -are- due to free market decisions.  But they are decisions by the public that are based on false narratives that the media have presented them, and which things like mask mandates have exacerbated.  Like, of course people are going to be less likely to go to restaurant where everyone is wearing masks, and this is going to prevent a lot of restaurants from reopening.  Just because they government didn’t force this restaurants to close doesn’t mean the public response to the pandemic wasn’t at fault.

[compucomp]

If you want to wear a mask, and are so afraid for your health that you dare not take it off in a public place even for eating and drinking, then by all means you do you.  Just don't impose your preferences on the rest of us via a mask mandate.  I don't want to live in your world.  The rest of us want a return to normalcy.    

To date all mask mandates have carved out exceptions for bars and restaurants. So that's not an excuse to remove mask mandates. Indoor dining is a risky activity, precisely because masks can't be used, and as long as the pandemic continues, will continue to be risky. This is the state of the world whether you choose to believe it or not. This is now normal and it could be the normal for the next 5-10 years, at least until COVID evolves in a milder direction and becomes like the common cold. The proper thing to do is to accept the state of the world and say "I choose to accept the risk of indoor dining" but for some reason people want to stay in denial and pretend it's still 2019.

[Frodo]

If you want to wear a mask, and are so afraid for your health that you dare not take it off in a public place even for eating and drinking, then by all means you do you.  Just don't impose your preferences on the rest of us via a mask mandate.  I don't want to live in your world.  The rest of us want a return to normalcy.    

To date all mask mandates have carved out exceptions for bars and restaurants. So that's not an excuse to remove mask mandates. Indoor dining is a risky activity, precisely because masks can't be used, and as long as the pandemic continues, will continue to be risky. This is the state of the world whether you choose to believe it or not.

As someone who is fully vaccinated, I see no reason why I have to continue to accommodate those who are not, especially this late into the pandemic.  Don't I deserve some benefits as a result of my due diligence in getting those vaccines?  If you remain unvaccinated, and get sick as a result of the removal of those mask mandates, that is on you.  Not the rest of us.  At some point, enough is enough.     

This is now normal and it could be the normal for the next 5-10 years, at least until COVID evolves in a milder direction and becomes like the common cold. The proper thing to do is to accept the state of the world and say "I choose to accept the risk of indoor dining" but for some reason people want to stay in denial and pretend it's still 2019.

It arguably already has, if the Omicron variant is of any indication.  Granted, it is still too early to say for certain.  

[jamestroll]

The rich white liberals are literally ruining kids.

1) GET VACCINATED

2) GET BOOSTED IF NECESSARY

3) STOP DOING THE TESTS AND CREATING ALL THIS HYSTERIA!

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1469482348152561665

[Horus]

The rich white liberals are literally ruining kids.

1) GET VACCINATED

2) GET BOOSTED IF NECESSARY

3) STOP DOING THE TESTS AND CREATING ALL THIS HYSTERIA!

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1469482348152561665

While I'm as opposed as you, they're mostly rich kids with the resources to learn at home as best as one can. It's the public and charter schools going virtual that grinds my gears since those kids often have no other options. That's where the school closure focus should be.

[compucomp]

I'm confused as to why you all are so strung up over wearing masks. You have the freedom to do literally whatever you did pre-pandemic, yet you're all acting as if we're still living under March 2020-era lockdowns because some places want you to wear a face covering.

Do you still have a hard time breathing with it on, or something?

It’s obviously not on the scale of March 2020, but it is definitely not true that everything that was open pre-pandemic is now available.  Concerts, festivals, and conventions are still being postponed.  International travel is still really difficult.  And many of the restaurants around me still have not reopened for in-person dining.

At this point the only point where there is still government intervention is international travel, and issues are most likely due to the actions of foreign governments as the US travel policies are rather mild, just get vaccinated and tested. All the other points are the free market reacting to the new normal. So what's your problem? You want to force the free market to cater towards the old normal that no longer exists? Force conventions and concerts to be held despite lack of demand and at risk of legal liability for hosting superspreader events?

lacK Of DeMAnd: https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/08/02/lollapalooza-had-more-than-385000-people-officials-announce-after-lightfoot-defended-holding-fest-during-pandemic/

lacK Of DeMAnd: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/29/spider-man-no-way-home-ticket-demand-crashed-box-office-sites.html

lacK Of DeMAnd: https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2021/12/01/michigan-football-vs-ohio-state-ratings-most-watched-college-football-game/

I'm seeing the new Spider-Man movie next Thursday night and the theater is almost completely booked. This is in Washington DC, not Trump Country Oklahoma. You may not be ready and probably never will be for the rest of your life, but most people are.

Last year, gas was cheap because people weren't getting out that much. But guess what? Gas prices have gone up this year because people are traveling again.

You missed my point entirely. The post I quoted bemoaned that various concerts and festivals had cut back or cancelled their events, and that some restaurants had closed their dining rooms, clearly intending to blame the government, Joe Biden, and other Democrats. My point is that this blame is entirely misplaced as any "blame" for that is entirely on the free market. If event organizers felt they could hold the events profitably, then they would hold the events. Otherwise they will cancel. Clearly these events are being cancelled because of lack of demand or the risk of being sued is too high. This is the free market. Movie theaters are open because there is ample demand and there is just about no way to prove that you caught COVID while watching the movie, basically shielding them from lawsuits. Whether there should be demand or not is another story and entirely subjective but I'm making an objective statement that it's not the government shutting anybody down.

And by the way, I have watched movies in a theater during the pandemic. It's easy to stay safe. Just put on an N95 mask and don't eat or drink anything. See what happens when you get past "feelings" and come to recognize masks as the zero cost, low effort mitigation measure they are?

I don’t really blame Biden at all for the pandemic response.  He’s done his best to implement vaccine mandates to the extent feasible given his powers.  And he’s hasn’t demanded any shut downs or national mask mandates, etc.  Executive branch failures lie much more with agencies like the CDC, FDA, and TSA, which should be independent from Biden.  Congress should really have just passed a national vaccine mandate a year ago and we’d have been out of this whole thing by last Spring.  

But the real failure lies with the media.  They are really leveraging the public’s innumeracy to stoke irrational fears.  Just look at the coverage of Omicron…the early data suggested that this variant was at least as likely to be good news toward ending the pandemic as it was bad news.  And yet when presented with uncertainty, the media only wants to present the most pessimistic possibilities, discussing Omicron’s possible increased transmissibiliy or ability to evade vaccines.

Most of the failures to return to normal -are- due to free market decisions.  But they are decisions by the public that are based on false narratives that the media have presented them, and which things like mask mandates have exacerbated.  Like, of course people are going to be less likely to go to restaurant where everyone is wearing masks, and this is going to prevent a lot of restaurants from reopening.  Just because they government didn’t force this restaurants to close doesn’t mean the public response to the pandemic wasn’t at fault.

Sorry, I have to totally disagree with you. I don't think the media has been bad at all; they have done the best they can with many unknowns which have caused even the public health officials to make proclamations that age like milk, they have presented clearly the economic costs of lockdown and given fairly balanced coverage to anti-containment protests, and in terms of the severity of the virus they greatly underrated what Delta would do and lulled people into a false sense of security.

As far as the free market forcing some events to cancel and some restaurants to close their dining rooms, I find that a very positive and encouraging sign. It shows that even in the face of a majority of American society willing to pay just about any price (someone else's price to pay of course and not their own) to "get back to normal", there is a substantial minority, maybe 30% of the population, that wants to do the right thing and avoid risky activities to protect themselves and others. The fact that the market has been moved enough to force it to adjust shows that this virtuous minority does exist and I'm very glad for that.

[2016]

I was fortunate enough to watch Chuck Todds Interview with Kansas Senator Roger Marshall and the Senator made some good Points about "Natural Immunity".

Does the Biden Administration and their Clowns Fauci or Dr. Walensky even know that word because they continueally acting like it doesn't even exist.

[Hammy]

Facebook caught spreading lies (again), this time by people who seem to want the pandemic to go on forever.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/12/scicheck-post-comes-to-premature-conclusions-about-covid-19-omicron-variant-severity/

“Of course, the toxicity of COVID-Omicron is 5 times higher than that of the Delta variant, and the mortality rate is also higher than that of Delta,” the post continues,

It also states, without evidence, that the omicron “wave … is more deadly than the first wave of Covid-19.”

[roxas11]

I was fortunate enough to watch Chuck Todds Interview with Kansas Senator Roger Marshall and the Senator made some good Points about "Natural Immunity".

Does the Biden Administration and their Clowns Fauci or Dr. Walensky even know that word because they continueally acting like it doesn't even exist.

Delta was a deadly variant and any so called natural immunity was not worth the many lives that virus took. I know family members who caught delta and unfortunately many of them never lived to see that "Natural Immunity" that you seem to love so much

In the case of Omicron it may very well end up being very mild but I still would not tell anybody to go out and purposely get the virus in order to have "Natural Immunity"

[emailking]

I don't think that even means anything to say Omicron is more toxic. It's not a chemical. More infectious and less severe seems to be the good bet based on the data we have.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Omicron actually sounds less severe than the average cold. For me, every cold is severe. From the description, Omicron sounds far less severe than that.

[Hammy]

I don't think that even means anything to say Omicron is more toxic. It's not a chemical. More infectious and less severe seems to be the good bet based on the data we have.

Unfortunately, Facebook posts are anything but data-driven but are widely treated as fact by those who see them.

[BG-NY]

https://twitter.com/mviski/status/1470146614010343424

[BigSerg]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1470242128974565379?s=20

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Guess what, CNN? Nobody cares. I've been vaccinated, so what else does CNN want me to do? Wear 3 masks?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1470242128974565379?s=20

This is an odd measure...it's compared to cases from 14-days ago...which of course was the end of Thanksgiving weekend when a lot of states weren't even reporting.  Note that Florida's cases are listed as Rising (+Infinity%).

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1470242128974565379?s=20

This is an odd measure...it's compared to cases from 14-days ago...which of course was the end of Thanksgiving weekend when a lot of states weren't even reporting.  Note that Florida's cases are listed as Rising (+Infinity%).

Gotta keep the public in a constant panic for ratings

[Torie]

Notice that a quarter of the ICU cases are breakthrough cases, and that the queues for surgeries are long due to a lack of ICU beds. I am extremely concerned about Omicron variant.

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-intensive-care-unit-coronavirus-trial-survival/

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Notice that a quarter of the ICU cases are breakthrough cases, and that the queues for surgeries are long due to a lack of ICU beds. I am extremely concerned about Omicron variant.

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-intensive-care-unit-coronavirus-trial-survival/

This article doesn't mention anything about ICU cases or breakthrough cases being tied to Omicron.

[Torie]

Notice that a quarter of the ICU cases are breakthrough cases, and that the queues for surgeries are long due to a lack of ICU beds. I am extremely concerned about Omicron variant.

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-intensive-care-unit-coronavirus-trial-survival/

This article doesn't mention anything about ICU cases or breakthrough cases being tied to Omicron.

"While 76 percent of people in Belgium are fully vaccinated, approximately 75 percent of those in the COVID ICU are not."

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Notice that a quarter of the ICU cases are breakthrough cases, and that the queues for surgeries are long due to a lack of ICU beds. I am extremely concerned about Omicron variant.

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-intensive-care-unit-coronavirus-trial-survival/

This article doesn't mention anything about ICU cases or breakthrough cases being tied to Omicron.

"While 76 percent of people in Belgium are fully vaccinated, approximately 75 percent of those in the COVID ICU are not."

What does this have to do with Omicron?  It says nothing about whether these ICU cases are the Omicron variant.

[emailking]

Remember that still means a small percentage of vaccinated end up in the ICU. Because not many end up in the ICU, vaccinated or not.

[Horus]

Remember that still means a small percentage of vaccinated end up in the ICU. Because not many end up in the ICU, vaccinated or not.

No one claimed vaccines were perfect. But the data so far looks good, and confirms that we're nearing the end of this mess.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Guess what, CNN? Nobody cares. I've been vaccinated, so what else does CNN want me to do? Wear 3 masks?

Just because you don't care does not mean that nobody cares.  You do not speak for the entire population.

[Tintrlvr]

Remember that still means a small percentage of vaccinated end up in the ICU. Because not many end up in the ICU, vaccinated or not.

Some small number of people go to the ICU for the flu, too, or for any number of other contagious diseases.