COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[GeorgiaModerate]

So while politically unpopular to say this, the fact is this is a learning process.

The MRNA vaccines are miracles in that the technology allowed for the development of largely effective vaccines in a shorter period of time than anyone thought possible.  At the end of the day they are a new technology, and we were in a rush. There is little to no evidence that this rush resulted in serious trade offs in terms of safety, but it is understandable that some choices were made in the dark.

Among those is Pfizer going for a lower dose than Moderna.

The proper approach should have been grateful for how good these vaccines were given the context of their development. That would have involved recognizing that both the vaccines themselves, and their deployment could and would be improved. For instance, we now have a large amount of data that extending the gap between first and second doses as the UK did resulted in much better protection than the shorter 3-4 week gaps.

The problem is that everyone is demanding perfection in different ways from a product which is 95%  perfect. Anti-vaxxers say that 5% proves it is bad. Pro-Vaxxers insist that 5% means it does not work and they demand to be shot full of more of it rather than waiting for more research into how to get it from 95% to 99%. If they waited an extra three months we could find out from those current studies on mixing Pfizer shots with Moderna Boosters etc and see if we could get a much more effective and longer lasting approach. But no. Everyone is in a hurry

My father is still unvaccinated, and he continues to believe-as he has for months-that the vaccines are ineffective, and that he's not going to get vaccinated unless if they come out with one that is 100% effective. That is obviously never going to happen. I've given up trying to argue with him about it.

Does he wear a seat belt in the car?  You could point out that some people die in car accidents even when wearing seat belts; they're not 100% either.  But wearing one greatly increases the chance of survival.

[Calthrina950]

So while politically unpopular to say this, the fact is this is a learning process.

The MRNA vaccines are miracles in that the technology allowed for the development of largely effective vaccines in a shorter period of time than anyone thought possible.  At the end of the day they are a new technology, and we were in a rush. There is little to no evidence that this rush resulted in serious trade offs in terms of safety, but it is understandable that some choices were made in the dark.

Among those is Pfizer going for a lower dose than Moderna.

The proper approach should have been grateful for how good these vaccines were given the context of their development. That would have involved recognizing that both the vaccines themselves, and their deployment could and would be improved. For instance, we now have a large amount of data that extending the gap between first and second doses as the UK did resulted in much better protection than the shorter 3-4 week gaps.

The problem is that everyone is demanding perfection in different ways from a product which is 95%  perfect. Anti-vaxxers say that 5% proves it is bad. Pro-Vaxxers insist that 5% means it does not work and they demand to be shot full of more of it rather than waiting for more research into how to get it from 95% to 99%. If they waited an extra three months we could find out from those current studies on mixing Pfizer shots with Moderna Boosters etc and see if we could get a much more effective and longer lasting approach. But no. Everyone is in a hurry

My father is still unvaccinated, and he continues to believe-as he has for months-that the vaccines are ineffective, and that he's not going to get vaccinated unless if they come out with one that is 100% effective. That is obviously never going to happen. I've given up trying to argue with him about it.

Does he wear a seat belt in the car?  You could point out that some people die in car accidents even when wearing seat belts; they're not 100% either.  But wearing one greatly increases the chance of survival.

Like I said, I've given up trying to persuade him. He's very stubborn, and once his mind is set, it's hard to get him to change course.

[ProudModerate2]

So while politically unpopular to say this, the fact is this is a learning process.

The MRNA vaccines are miracles in that the technology allowed for the development of largely effective vaccines in a shorter period of time than anyone thought possible.  At the end of the day they are a new technology, and we were in a rush. There is little to no evidence that this rush resulted in serious trade offs in terms of safety, but it is understandable that some choices were made in the dark.

Among those is Pfizer going for a lower dose than Moderna.

The proper approach should have been grateful for how good these vaccines were given the context of their development. That would have involved recognizing that both the vaccines themselves, and their deployment could and would be improved. For instance, we now have a large amount of data that extending the gap between first and second doses as the UK did resulted in much better protection than the shorter 3-4 week gaps.

The problem is that everyone is demanding perfection in different ways from a product which is 95%  perfect. Anti-vaxxers say that 5% proves it is bad. Pro-Vaxxers insist that 5% means it does not work and they demand to be shot full of more of it rather than waiting for more research into how to get it from 95% to 99%. If they waited an extra three months we could find out from those current studies on mixing Pfizer shots with Moderna Boosters etc and see if we could get a much more effective and longer lasting approach. But no. Everyone is in a hurry

My father is still unvaccinated, and he continues to believe-as he has for months-that the vaccines are ineffective, and that he's not going to get vaccinated unless if they come out with one that is 100% effective. That is obviously never going to happen. I've given up trying to argue with him about it.

Does he wear a seat belt in the car?  You could point out that some people die in car accidents even when wearing seat belts; they're not 100% either.  But wearing one greatly increases the chance of survival.

Like I said, I've given up trying to persuade him. He's very stubborn, and once his mind is set, it's hard to get him to change course.

Does his decision not to get vaccinated relate to his politics? (a trump supporter)

[Calthrina950]

So while politically unpopular to say this, the fact is this is a learning process.

The MRNA vaccines are miracles in that the technology allowed for the development of largely effective vaccines in a shorter period of time than anyone thought possible.  At the end of the day they are a new technology, and we were in a rush. There is little to no evidence that this rush resulted in serious trade offs in terms of safety, but it is understandable that some choices were made in the dark.

Among those is Pfizer going for a lower dose than Moderna.

The proper approach should have been grateful for how good these vaccines were given the context of their development. That would have involved recognizing that both the vaccines themselves, and their deployment could and would be improved. For instance, we now have a large amount of data that extending the gap between first and second doses as the UK did resulted in much better protection than the shorter 3-4 week gaps.

The problem is that everyone is demanding perfection in different ways from a product which is 95%  perfect. Anti-vaxxers say that 5% proves it is bad. Pro-Vaxxers insist that 5% means it does not work and they demand to be shot full of more of it rather than waiting for more research into how to get it from 95% to 99%. If they waited an extra three months we could find out from those current studies on mixing Pfizer shots with Moderna Boosters etc and see if we could get a much more effective and longer lasting approach. But no. Everyone is in a hurry

My father is still unvaccinated, and he continues to believe-as he has for months-that the vaccines are ineffective, and that he's not going to get vaccinated unless if they come out with one that is 100% effective. That is obviously never going to happen. I've given up trying to argue with him about it.

Does he wear a seat belt in the car?  You could point out that some people die in car accidents even when wearing seat belts; they're not 100% either.  But wearing one greatly increases the chance of survival.

Like I said, I've given up trying to persuade him. He's very stubborn, and once his mind is set, it's hard to get him to change course.

Does his decision not to get vaccinated relate to his politics? (a trump supporter)

I don't think so, although I suppose it's possible. He seems to be convinced that the underlying conditions he has would be exacerbated if he got the vaccine.

[emailking]

Pfizer seeks FDA authorization of Covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11

Pfizer and BioNTech said Thursday they are seeking US Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization from for their Covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11.

If authorized, this would be the first Covid-19 vaccine for younger children. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is approved for people age 16 and older and has an EUA for people ages 12 to 15.

Last month, Pfizer released details of a Phase 2/3 trial that showed its Covid-19 vaccine was safe and generated a "robust" antibody response in children ages 5 to 11. The trial included 2,268 participants ages 5 to 11 and used a two-dose regimen of the vaccine administered 21 days apart. This trial used a 10-microgram dose -- smaller than the 30-microgram dose that has been used for those 12 and older.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/07/health/hfr-pfizer-covid-vaccine-fda-eua/index.html

[Mr. Illini]

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1445220954813128705

This is discouraging.

The vaccines are a lifesaver, but they need to last longer to be practical.  Most people aren't going to get a covid shot twice a year.

Most people willing to get the shot for a return to normal would get booster doses. The people who will refuse are the ones refusing to get vaccinated in the first place.

Seriously, people are acting like having to get a booster shot is literally 1984. It's maybe 30 minutes out of your day, once or twice a year. You'll live.

Yep, in fact many of us have been getting our annual flu shots annually for years and it is one of the most minor and routine occasions that could be imagined. A once- or twice-annual COVID shot would not be a problem.

[riceowl]

got a Pfizer booster yesterday. the upshots of working for a hospital!

[GP270watch]

Video: Lindsey Graham gets booed by his own supporters.

Click here to watch ... https://us.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/10/06/lindsey-graham-booed-vaccine-mandate-orig-vf.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/

We are almost two years into this global Pandemic, and Republicans/Conservatives are still acting like morons.
In the video, they boo when Graham recommends they get vaccinated, and they call him a liar for saying most of the South Carolina's people in ICU, are those who are unvaccinated.

 They bred this stupidity. The GOP has been catering to it's worst instincts.

[pbrower2a]

Video: Lindsey Graham gets booed by his own supporters.

Click here to watch ... https://us.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/10/06/lindsey-graham-booed-vaccine-mandate-orig-vf.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/

We are almost two years into this global Pandemic, and Republicans/Conservatives are still acting like morons.
In the video, they boo when Graham recommends they get vaccinated, and they call him a liar for saying most of the South Carolina's people in ICU, are those who are unvaccinated.

They hate being told that they need to get inoculated and wear masks. The truth can hurt feelings, but falsehood can kill one. There will be life after COVID-19, and I certainly want to enjoy it. I don't want to die on a respirator.

Go ahead. Hate.

   

All vile, loathsome serial mass-murderers.

[Frodo]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

[Pericles]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

Is it still the case that the Covid death rate is higher for men than women? If so, what might be causing it-are there any factors that happen to be correlated with being a man that would increase the risk?

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

Is it still the case that the Covid death rate is higher for men than women? If so, what might be causing it-are there any factors that happen to be correlated with being a man that would increase the risk?

A couple of thoughts that spring to mind:

Being overweight - a higher percentage of men than women in the US are overweight, although the percentage for obesity is higher among women.

Smoking - a higher percentage of US men than women are smokers.

[Frodo]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

Is it still the case that the Covid death rate is higher for men than women? If so, what might be causing it-are there any factors that happen to be correlated with being a man that would increase the risk?

A couple of thoughts that spring to mind:

Being overweight - a higher percentage of men than women in the US are overweight, although the percentage for obesity is higher among women.

Smoking - a higher percentage of US men than women are smokers.

Let's also bear in mind that we as men (generally speaking) are less likely to go to the doctor for cultural reasons, only doing so when something really goes wrong and we have no other choice.  It feels like a sacrifice, having to acknowledge that we are mortal and need help.  For younger men, we avoid going to the doctor because we are young and (subconsciously) feel invincible.  For older men, we do everything to maintain the protective 'tough guy' image.  

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

There is also a biological reason.
Men in general have weaker immune systems.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

There is also a biological reason.
Men in general have weaker immune systems.

No it's because of misandry on the part of this woke radical leftist administration! The vaccines exist to kill off men! All the more reason not to trust them!

[Hammy]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

Seems to be specifically among those who immunity already decreases the quickest, over 65 and immunocompromised.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

I think right now the U.S. is at 21 days in a row of declining cases. This hasn't happened since May.

Also, it does look like Alabama may be the first state to have full herd immunity.

The Spanish Flu had 4 waves, this Delta variant is wave 4 and could be the last Covid wave.

[Calthrina950]

I think right now the U.S. is at 21 days in a row of declining cases. This hasn't happened since May.

Also, it does look like Alabama may be the first state to have full herd immunity.

The Spanish Flu had 4 waves, this Delta variant is wave 4 and could be the last Covid wave.

Apparently, former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb also believes that the Delta wave will be the last wave of the pandemic. I certainly hope that this is the case.

[Tintrlvr]

https://twitter.com/sirimahanthesh/status/1446162069250789384

Is it still the case that the Covid death rate is higher for men than women? If so, what might be causing it-are there any factors that happen to be correlated with being a man that would increase the risk?

Men generally have weaker immune systems than women. By contrast, women have much higher rates of auto-immune disease than men. Vaccines shouldn't change that calculus. Men are also likelier to die from the flu and many other contagious diseases than women.

[Hammy]

I think right now the U.S. is at 21 days in a row of declining cases. This hasn't happened since May.

Also, it does look like Alabama may be the first state to have full herd immunity.

The Spanish Flu had 4 waves, this Delta variant is wave 4 and could be the last Covid wave.

Apparently, former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb also believes that the Delta wave will be the last wave of the pandemic. I certainly hope that this is the case.

I wouldn't trust the opinion of somebody who was part of an administration that wouldn't even admit when we were in the first wave.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Cases are down 72% statewide and 77% here in Williamson County versus less than four weeks ago.  That means that cases are declining even faster than they rose in August (that same chunk of the rise took almost six weeks statewide and almost seven in WillCo).

I'm really thinking that we now might have herd immunity and expect that we'll be back in the early summer "virtually no covid" range in the next couple months.  Maybe we will get a little ripple in the winter, but I can't see another big wave happening.

[emailking]

I think right now the U.S. is at 21 days in a row of declining cases. This hasn't happened since May.

Also, it does look like Alabama may be the first state to have full herd immunity.

The Spanish Flu had 4 waves, this Delta variant is wave 4 and could be the last Covid wave.

It's actually the 5th wave for cases. For deaths it's arguably only the 4th wave.

[roxas11]

Cases are down 72% statewide and 77% here in Williamson County versus less than four weeks ago.  That means that cases are declining even faster than they rose in August (that same chunk of the rise took almost six weeks statewide and almost seven in WillCo).

I'm really thinking that we now might have herd immunity and expect that we'll be back in the early summer "virtually no covid" range in the next couple months.  Maybe we will get a little ripple in the winter, but I can't see another big wave happening.

I really hope your prediction turns out to be true because at this point I really want this Covid nightmare to finally be over.

It upsets me every time I think about all the family and friends that I have lost because of this damn virus

[Horus]

If the pandemic really is on its way out, I've never been prouder to be an Atlantan. Despite being in the heart of the south, surrounded by anti vax hell, things never got too bad in the metro, certainly not on the level of NY or SW Missouri. The CDC being headquartered here probably played a role, plus our minority populations are much more likely to have a college degree than somewhere like Birmingham or St. Louis meaning more likely to be vaxxed.

Also folks tended to mask pragmatically. Not neurotically like in Cali or never like in the sticks.

[Not Me, Us]

I think it’s a bit premature to start declaring victory. People were saying similar things back in June, and look what happened after that. I certainly hope this will be the last major wave, but I find it hard to believe that.