COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Pericles]

It's getting very late in the game-vaccinated people who have done everything right need to be able to live normal lives. If one more month would save lives then sure, but this can't go on forever. Very soon, there is no alternative but to let it rip among the unvaccinated-if they die sorry but they should have taken more personal responsibility for their health.

We pretty much have been letting it rip amongst the unvaccinated in the USA. That is what 2000 deaths a day is. Or, alternatively, it is almost equivalent to the number of US combat deaths in the 20 year long Afghan war, in a single day.

If 2 9/11s every 3 days, or almost 20 years worth of Afghan war combat deaths every day and having hospitals run out of ICU beds in many parts of the country isn't letting it rip, then I shudder to think of what letting it rip is.

So the vaccine mandates need to be imposed and given time to work, but if it's clear that they just won't get the jab then there's no point punishing the vaccinated. So in a way this is the critical month to see if any progress can be made.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

If it mutates it mutates, that will happen regardless of how high cases are in the US and can't be used to guide policy for any one country.

Underrated point. The world needs a global policy towards COVID. This is, at present, totally lacking.

Viruses do not respect national borders, and even with extremely strong border restrictions it is difficult to impossible to totally restrict.

Just as it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on a state/local level within the USA, it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on the national level without international coordination and planning.

[Pericles]

If it mutates it mutates, that will happen regardless of how high cases are in the US and can't be used to guide policy for any one country.

Underrated point. The world needs a global policy towards COVID. This is, at present, totally lacking.

Viruses do not respect national borders, and even with extremely strong border restrictions it is difficult to impossible to totally restrict.

Just as it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on a state/local level within the USA, it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on the national level without international coordination and planning.

I'm not sure if the US has so many spare vaccines they can do boosters and get billions of people in developing countries vaccinated but boosters seem wasteful since the double jabbed are so well protected. It's different for the double jabbed who are still old or vulnerable and for children who are of course not jabbed and so coukd use protection against Covid.

[SnowLabrador]

If it mutates it mutates, that will happen regardless of how high cases are in the US and can't be used to guide policy for any one country.

Underrated point. The world needs a global policy towards COVID. This is, at present, totally lacking.

Viruses do not respect national borders, and even with extremely strong border restrictions it is difficult to impossible to totally restrict.

Just as it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on a state/local level within the USA, it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on the national level without international coordination and planning.

I'm not sure if the US has so many spare vaccines they can do boosters and get billions of people in developing countries vaccinated but boosters seem wasteful since the double jabbed are so well protected. It's different for the double jabbed who are still old or vulnerable and for children who are of course not jabbed and so coukd use protection against Covid.

We wouldn't need third doses, except that so many people refuse to get first doses and will endanger us all.

[Pericles]

If it mutates it mutates, that will happen regardless of how high cases are in the US and can't be used to guide policy for any one country.

Underrated point. The world needs a global policy towards COVID. This is, at present, totally lacking.

Viruses do not respect national borders, and even with extremely strong border restrictions it is difficult to impossible to totally restrict.

Just as it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on a state/local level within the USA, it is absurd and ineffectual to have COVID policy set on the national level without international coordination and planning.

I'm not sure if the US has so many spare vaccines they can do boosters and get billions of people in developing countries vaccinated but boosters seem wasteful since the double jabbed are so well protected. It's different for the double jabbed who are still old or vulnerable and for children who are of course not jabbed and so coukd use protection against Covid.

We wouldn't need third doses, except that so many people refuse to get first doses and will endanger us all.

I doubt the people who are double jabbed three weeks plus ago are the ones filling up the hospitals, or even a significant share of the patients. It might reduce transmission slightly but it still feels wasteful so let's defer to the experts.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I'm not sure if the US has so many spare vaccines they can do boosters and get billions of people in developing countries vaccinated but boosters seem wasteful since the double jabbed are so well protected. It's different for the double jabbed who are still old or vulnerable and for children who are of course not jabbed and so coukd use protection against Covid.

It is not an either/or. We could be producing much more vaccines if we wanted to. If we were taking this seriously, like we ought to be, the only thing that should be limiting vaccine production is if we run out of the raw materials needed to make more vaccines. As far as I am aware, that isn't the case.

In World War 2, the US Government didn't just sit back and say, "Hey Boeing, great job designing that B-17 bomber. Now we'll leave things up to you, and hope that you just make as many as you can with your existing productive capacity and run things yourself. And we have to prioritize protecting your intellectual property rights above winning the war, so we won't bother to re-purpose other non-Boeing factories to produce more."

Instead, the government stepped in and made sure that maximizing war production of all sorts of tanks, ships, planes, and munitions was the number one priority. Huge numbers of new plants were opened and existing plants were re-purposed to produce war materiel instead.

But today, we can't have that for vaccine production, because this would be government "interference" in the free market which would violate neoconservative economic dogma that Biden buys into, which goes back to the Reagan era.

And so we are not expanding production of vaccines any more than Moderna/Pfizer might wish to do so on their own volition in their own plants. We could be doing so, both by forcing more new plants in the USA to be opened, and also by finding a way around the intellectual property rights issue so that highly effective American vaccines (e.g. Moderna) could be manufactured in other countries as well.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

In my day, schools very rarely closed for the flu. Our area was always at the top of the list for every flu pandemic, year after year after year. But I only remember school being closed for it twice, and both times, it was only for a few days.

I think these closures were around December 1986 and December 1988.

[DaleCooper]

It's getting very late in the game-vaccinated people who have done everything right need to be able to live normal lives. If one more month would save lives then sure, but this can't go on forever. Very soon, there is no alternative but to let it rip among the unvaccinated-if they die sorry but they should have taken more personal responsibility for their health.

Except then the virus will mutate into a form that is immune to all our vaccines. Plus the unvaccinated are filling up hospitals to the point that vaccinated people are indirectly dying from other things.

If you want restrictions to continue because of the possibility of mutations then you're essentially asking for eternal COVID restrictions, and I wish that people in your political sphere would just bite the bullet and admit that this is what you're calling for.

[GeorgiaModerate]

In my day, schools very rarely closed for the flu. Our area was always at the top of the list for every flu pandemic, year after year after year. But I only remember school being closed for it twice, and both times, it was only for a few days.

I think these closures were around December 1986 and December 1988.

I remember this happening in my school only once.  I think it was the "Hong Kong flu" epidemic in 1968-69.

[cg41386]

https://twitter.com/mrsshap/status/1438214618623709186

its a good thing I am not a parent! If I were a parent and my child's school was closed over covid I would be banging on the front door, screaming and cursing, until they opened it.

You are right, it is a good thing you are not a parent, your reaction would make your kids seem like the adults in the family in comparison to you. Schools commonly closed in the past because of flu outbreaks, much less COVID.

From 2018, for example:

Schools Across the Country Are Closing Because of the Flu

It's not unusual for schools to periodically close during the winter months, but this season, schools across the country are canceling classes for a reason that has nothing to do with bad weather. As the flu epidemic continues to intensify, many schools are being forced to close due to the increasing number of sick kids and staff. While some have closed for just a day, others are closing for a week at a time in order to deal with this startling situation.

Although there's no official count for the number of schools closed because of the flu, there are reports of a variety of closures across 12 states. From Florida and Oklahoma to Illinois and Arkansas, officials are closing schools not only because of the number of students who are sick, but also to hopefully keep it from spreading.

Gull Lake Community Schools in Michigan were closed "due to high illness rates," while one school in Texas declared a "flu day" after state officials told anyone who was sick to stay home. In Arkansas, the Russellville School District closed all of its schools "due to the high number of students experiencing flu-like symptoms."

You are proving my point. It was never wide spread to close schools over every little risk. But going forward, it will be much for a common.

A significant portion of my party never wants in person schooling again and want everything virtually. That is ing disturbing and frightening.

Do you have any solid data on this? Otherwise, just stop it. You're so dramatic (and very likely wrong).

[Skill and Chance]

It's getting very late in the game-vaccinated people who have done everything right need to be able to live normal lives. If one more month would save lives then sure, but this can't go on forever. Very soon, there is no alternative but to let it rip among the unvaccinated-if they die sorry but they should have taken more personal responsibility for their health.

Except then the virus will mutate into a form that is immune to all our vaccines. Plus the unvaccinated are filling up hospitals to the point that vaccinated people are indirectly dying from other things.

If you want restrictions to continue because of the possibility of mutations then you're essentially asking for eternal COVID restrictions, and I wish that people in your political sphere would just bite the bullet and admit that this is what you're calling for.

For me, the major remaining question is this winter.  If we get through the holiday gathering season without chaos in the healthcare system in the cold but highly vaccinated states, that's the signal that people should move on from COVID and resume their normal lives. 

[Person Man]

It's getting very late in the game-vaccinated people who have done everything right need to be able to live normal lives. If one more month would save lives then sure, but this can't go on forever. Very soon, there is no alternative but to let it rip among the unvaccinated-if they die sorry but they should have taken more personal responsibility for their health.

Except then the virus will mutate into a form that is immune to all our vaccines. Plus the unvaccinated are filling up hospitals to the point that vaccinated people are indirectly dying from other things.

If you want restrictions to continue because of the possibility of mutations then you're essentially asking for eternal COVID restrictions, and I wish that people in your political sphere would just bite the bullet and admit that this is what you're calling for.

For me, the major remaining question is this winter.  If we get through the holiday gathering season without chaos in the healthcare system in the cold but highly vaccinated states, that's the signal that people should move on from COVID and resume their normal lives. 

I would call that the end of pandemic.

[gerritcole]

The vast majority of people have moved on from the pandemic a while ago, only the hyper online and political hacks like us care about the restrictions

[Skill and Chance]

The vast majority of people have moved on from the pandemic a while ago, only the hyper online and political hacks like us care about the restrictions

Large employers generally brought back some COVID workplace rules in August, so I don't think this is quite true yet. 

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I'm glad the 7-day average in the U.S. has dropped 8 days in a row now, but the rules still don't match the circumstances at hand. Various states, cities, schools, and businesses keep doubling down on mandates even as numbers vastly improve.

[CEO Mindset]

The vast majority of people have moved on from the pandemic a while ago, only the hyper online and political hacks like us care about the restrictions

Large employers generally brought back some COVID workplace rules in August, so I don't think this is quite true yet. 

yeah, large employers reimposing or retaining covid rules has made me even more against having a norm of employment being Expected/tying first world standards of living to employment than I was in 2021 or evne earlier this year.

[Dan the Roman]

The vast majority of people have moved on from the pandemic a while ago, only the hyper online and political hacks like us care about the restrictions

Large employers generally brought back some COVID workplace rules in August, so I don't think this is quite true yet. 

Has everything to do with the Karen-esque nature of modern parenting. It needs to be grasped after California and Canada that parents WANT restrictive rules. They do not want to follow them for themselves, but the greatest annoyance to any parent, especially at nicer/private schools is someone else's kid being allowed to slide with "anti-social" behavior. Which usually "means" they have a bad mother. Speculating is the favorite topic.

Genuine concern about Covid has merged with the desire to signal out the parents of kids who would not wear masks as a means of social control, and the fact that the louder parents being signaled out are exactly the sort people the Karens have always hated(either because they are annoying or they are married to someone above/beneath them/both) they are effectively waging war on "white trash" and nonconformists.

That their war on white trash also hits the less integrated "wrong sort" of blacks and latinos is probably as much of a concern as the fact that all the policing and zoning polices they back also work that way.

What is missed is that while at the national level the Rightwing position is anti mandates at the local level it is reversed.

And this, btw is why I think this is not playing out well for the GOP in wealthier higher end areas. The same people who may very well rant about Biden in abstract, also want the power to terrorize nonconformists(especially black ones) in their exurbs. And some GOP governors aren't letting them.

[Horus]

Parents who support online schooling should get a visit from CPS. They are setting their children up for social failure.

[Inmate Trump]

Just had a guy come look at my AC unit. Was in my house for around 20-30 minutes. Neither of us wore masks. Who knows if he’s vaccinated but fortunately I am. Probably very careless on my part, and hopefully not a huge mistake.

[LabourJersey]

Just had a guy come look at my AC unit. Was in my house for around 20-30 minutes. Neither of us wore masks. Who knows if he’s vaccinated but fortunately I am. Probably very careless on my part, and hopefully not a huge mistake.

Unless you were right next to him the whole time, I wouldn't worry about this

[Hammy]

Parents who support online schooling should get a visit from CPS. They are setting their children up for social failure.

There are non-COVID reasons for parents not to want in-person learning as it can be too overwhelming for some children, so this is going a bit far.

[Skill and Chance]

Parents who support online schooling should get a visit from CPS. They are setting their children up for social failure.

Those still in online school are generally immunocompromised. 

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

This thread feels like it's stuck in a redundant time loop:

- Weekly update showing over a thousand daily COVID deaths on average
- Folks upset at Florida for rising cases/deaths & scoffing at restrictions
- Folks upset & scoffing at places not enforcing mandates & restrictions
- Bandit3 & Horus upset & scoffing at places enforcing mandates & restrictions
- Public polling showing mandates & restrictions popular nationwide
- Repeat next week

You could pull up pages from three months ago and the only things that would've changed were the dates.

[Person Man]

Let’s see what the new weeks, numbers say.

[Horus]

This thread feels like it's stuck in a redundant time loop:

- Weekly update showing over a thousand daily COVID deaths on average
- Folks upset at Florida for rising cases/deaths & scoffing at restrictions
- Folks upset & scoffing at places not enforcing mandates & restrictions
- Bandit3 & Horus upset & scoffing at places enforcing mandates & restrictions
- Public polling showing mandates & restrictions popular nationwide
- Repeat next week

You could pull up pages from three months ago and the only things that would've changed were the dates.

I'm a huge supporter of vaccine mandates.