Opinion of this quote about #populism <3...

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

In recent years, the words “populism” and “populist” have invaded the communications media and everyday conversation. As a result, they have lost whatever value they might have had, and have become another source of polarization in an already divided society. Efforts are made to classify entire peoples, groups, societies and governments as “populist” or not. Nowadays it has become impossible for someone to express a view on any subject without being categorized one way or the other, either to be unfairly discredited or to be praised to the skies.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

B A S E D

Seriously, I think I have argued similar things for a relatively long time.

[afleitch]

FWIW, I did speed read the whole thing. It was welcome in that it both had a substantive message and dispensed with the eye rolling transgressions into 'the having of sex' that these have tended to go down. Tradcaths will not be happy.

I think populism now is alignment to 'elitist' presuppositions, rather than a mass movement driven from below. Though that does still happen of course (BLM etc). So I tend to agree with the statement. I don't think we are seeing genuine populism, just merely a mass self sorting in action. That is the populism, but its not based on a 'whats best for all of us', just 'whats best for my side.'

[Mopsus]

Populism pretty clearly refers to any reactionary movement to preserve those social arrangements which empower the traditional working and middle classes, against social/economic innovations which threaten those arrangements. One would expect the pope of all people to understand this - though perhaps not this pope!

[Vosem]

Populist does not seem to have a definition beyond "successful in the late 2010s" (or, sometimes "new political movement successful in the late 2010s").

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Populism pretty clearly refers to any reactionary movement to preserve those social arrangements which empower the traditional working and middle classes, against social/economic innovations which threaten those arrangements. One would expect the pope of all people to understand this - though perhaps not this pope!

I can't quite understand if you are ironic, but if you aren't:
That's exactly the completely meaningless and culture-war-ified definition of populism the Pope is complaining about!

[Mopsus]

Populism pretty clearly refers to any reactionary movement to preserve those social arrangements which empower the traditional working and middle classes, against social/economic innovations which threaten those arrangements. One would expect the pope of all people to understand this - though perhaps not this pope!

I can't quite understand if you are ironic, but if you aren't:
That's exactly the completely meaningless and culture-war-ified definition of populism the Pope is complaining about!

I suppose it would seem meaningless to someone who hasn’t yet realized that we are in the midst of a culture war, whether he likes it or not.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Populism pretty clearly refers to any reactionary movement to preserve those social arrangements which empower the traditional working and middle classes, against social/economic innovations which threaten those arrangements. One would expect the pope of all people to understand this - though perhaps not this pope!

I can't quite understand if you are ironic, but if you aren't:
That's exactly the completely meaningless and culture-war-ified definition of populism the Pope is complaining about!

I suppose it would seem meaningless to someone who hasn’t yet realized that we are in the midst of a culture war, whether he likes it or not.

The Pope realizes that good and well, and in this encyclical he is trying to propose a path to peace. But I doubt you have any more interest in that than, say, Harry does.

[Mopsus]

Populism pretty clearly refers to any reactionary movement to preserve those social arrangements which empower the traditional working and middle classes, against social/economic innovations which threaten those arrangements. One would expect the pope of all people to understand this - though perhaps not this pope!

I can't quite understand if you are ironic, but if you aren't:
That's exactly the completely meaningless and culture-war-ified definition of populism the Pope is complaining about!

I suppose it would seem meaningless to someone who hasn’t yet realized that we are in the midst of a culture war, whether he likes it or not.

The Pope realizes that good and well, and in this encyclical he is trying to propose a path to peace. But I doubt you have any more interest in that than, say, Harry does.

In all seriousness, I pick fights with people because it’s fun, not because I think anyone else should be more like me (God forbid!). However in real life I don’t have much faith in people to act contrary to their socioeconomic conditioning, which is why I view the culture model as inevitable, and if the pope is preaching compromise on that point, I do genuinely believe that he misunderstands the place of the church in history.

[TJ in Oregon]

I found that comment to be kind of an irrelevant side-point. Personally I couldn't care less whether you call me a populist or not, and I don't really see why anyone else or the Pope does.

Maybe it has some more importance in Europe?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Maybe it has some more importance in Europe?

My impression was that a lot of the political parts of the encyclical seemed specifically informed by what's going on with the Italian center-right. §§86 and 125 also seem like they're directed at Lega in particular rather than at the global #populist right more generally. Popes, even post-1870 Popes, adopting Italy as their main reference point when it comes to assessing world politics is a long and proud tradition, of course. Perhaps Antonio or Battista Minola would be able to say more about this.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

"Populist" is a strong contender for stupidest term in the current political lexicon, yeah.

At the last general election you had various arguments that Boris' Conservatives, Corbyn's Labour, the Brexit Party and SNP were 'populist' parties, as if that meant something. And the saddest people in all of politics, partisan Lib Dems, actually believed they all were.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Maybe it has some more importance in Europe?

My impression was that a lot of the political parts of the encyclical seemed specifically informed by what's going on with the Italian center-right. §§86 and 125 also seem like they're directed at Lega in particular rather than at the global #populist right more generally. Popes, even post-1870 Popes, adopting Italy as their main reference point when it comes to assessing world politics is a long and proud tradition, of course. Perhaps Antonio or Battista Minola would be able to say more about this.

Of cooooooooourse.

I am not sure about §86, but §125 (developed regions and poorer regions of countries) reads 100% as a pot shot at Lega.

Also, going back to §156, there is certainly a tendency in the discourse to use "populist" to basically mean "Lega/FdI" (and European allies) which irks me a whole lot. I don't think I have heard the word applied even to M5S in some time... wonder why. And I remember when Conte (first Cabinet) was "accused" of being a populist, and so in his inaugural discourse he rebutted rivendicating the word populism as good, and that made some news.

By the way: it's quite some time that my usual reaction to all of this is "Lega populist my ass - have you seen the flat tax? "

[Antonio the Sixth]

Maybe it has some more importance in Europe?

My impression was that a lot of the political parts of the encyclical seemed specifically informed by what's going on with the Italian center-right. §§86 and 125 also seem like they're directed at Lega in particular rather than at the global #populist right more generally. Popes, even post-1870 Popes, adopting Italy as their main reference point when it comes to assessing world politics is a long and proud tradition, of course. Perhaps Antonio or Battista Minola would be able to say more about this.

Yeah, "populism" is possibly even more abused as a political term in Europe than it is in America. Almost all the rhetoric against the yellow-green government back in its days was painting is as "the government of the populists".

I think Francis' point is precisely that this term has been so abused as to become meaningless.

[Antonio the Sixth]

By the way: it's quite some time that my usual reaction to all of this is "Lega populist my ass - have you seen the flat tax? "

Oh God thank you for saying that.

The flat tax is the most pro-elite, anti-populist political idea currently being floated in Italy. It's a f**king disgrace that Salvini was able to sell it as a reform for the little guy and it says some scary things about the idiocy of Italian political discourse.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Maybe it has some more importance in Europe?

My impression was that a lot of the political parts of the encyclical seemed specifically informed by what's going on with the Italian center-right. §§86 and 125 also seem like they're directed at Lega in particular rather than at the global #populist right more generally. Popes, even post-1870 Popes, adopting Italy as their main reference point when it comes to assessing world politics is a long and proud tradition, of course. Perhaps Antonio or Battista Minola would be able to say more about this.

Almost all the rhetoric against the yellow-green government back in its days was painting is as "the government of the populists".

THAT
THAT'S THE FREAKING POINT OF ALL OF THIS

By the way: it's quite some time that my usual reaction to all of this is "Lega populist my ass - have you seen the flat tax? "

Oh God thank you for saying that.

The flat tax is the most pro-elite, anti-populist political idea currently being floated in Italy. It's a f**king disgrace that Salvini was able to sell it as a reform for the little guy and it says some scary things about the idiocy of Italian political discourse.

Entirely correct. The flat tax is turbo voodooo economics, it's more right-wing than FI's proposal, and by the way one must be pretty dumb not to pick up how Lega rhetoric says "small business owners" or "entrepreneurs" much more than "workers" lmao. Not to mention that it's not a coincidence that Lega's geographic base is in the wealthiest part of Italy in my opinion.

[Ferguson97]

At least in an American context, "populism" has seemed to evolved into a term to describe a rhetoric rather than a specific set of beliefs. Many would describe Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders as both being populists, though their beliefs couldn't be more different beyond some protectionist stuff.

It's basically become synonymous with "anti-establishment".