Remember when debates were like this

[vitoNova]

Yeah.

But Romney lost against Sexual Chocolate.  So Repubs decided on the "no more Mr. Nice Guy" route. 

[Del Tachi]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

[Inmate Trump]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

Your support of Donald Trump endorses his behavior and embraces it for the future in American government and politics.

[Del Tachi]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

Your support of Donald Trump endorses his behavior and embraces it for the future in American government and politics.

No, my support of Donald Trump is because I'm a Republican and I support Republican policies.  The alternative to Republican Donald Trump is a Democratic president.

Is it really that hard to understand?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

You are vastly underestimating the strangehold Trump has on the GOP base. If he or Donald Jr. want to give it another go in 2024, I'd say they are the overwhelming favorites.

Mike Pence is dead on arrival. There is nothing inspiring or exciting about the man. In my eyes, he will always be seen as Trump's lapdog and nothing more.

The only Republican on that list I would be anywhere near happy to support is Nikki Haley.

[Del Tachi]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

You are vastly underestimating the strangehold Trump has on the GOP base. If he or Donald Jr. want to give it another go in 2024, I'd say they are the overwhelming favorites.

Mike Pence is dead on arrival. There is nothing inspiring or exciting about the man. In my eyes, he will always be seen as Trump's lapdog and nothing more.

The only Republican on that list I would be anywhere near happy to support is Nikki Haley.

George W. Bush and Obama enjoyed similarly insane approvals (>90%) among their partisan bases during their presidencies.  There is nothing unusual about Trump in that regard.

There are dozens of young, ambitious Republican politicians ready for their time in the national spotlight.  They are going to begin wining and dining GOP voters and donors for runs in 2024/28, and aren't going to stand by for some has been former President Trump.

[Inmate Trump]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

Your support of Donald Trump endorses his behavior and embraces it for the future in American government and politics.

No, my support of Donald Trump is because I'm a Republican and I support Republican policies.  The alternative to Republican Donald Trump is a Democratic president.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Yes, it is.

Because at a certain point behavior and temperament outweigh policy issues when it comes to the highest office in the land, and indeed the world.  And we've more than reached that point.

When I look at you, I don't see a Republican; I see a Trump supporter.  There is a very clear difference.

Voters should not choose party ID over the individual...yet you have.  Would you have voted for Roy Moore or Doug Jones?

[Horus]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

Your support of Donald Trump endorses his behavior and embraces it for the future in American government and politics.

No, my support of Donald Trump is because I'm a Republican and I support Republican policies.  The alternative to Republican Donald Trump is a Democratic president.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Yes.

[DaleCooper]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.     

You are vastly underestimating the strangehold Trump has on the GOP base. If he or Donald Jr. want to give it another go in 2024, I'd say they are the overwhelming favorites.

Mike Pence is dead on arrival. There is nothing inspiring or exciting about the man. In my eyes, he will always be seen as Trump's lapdog and nothing more.

The only Republican on that list I would be anywhere near happy to support is Nikki Haley.

Yes, the meme-ification of political discourse seems to have been one of Trump's biggest impacts on the party as a whole. With some exceptions in more competitive races, the embrace of "owning the libs" as the first and foremost strategy has occurred up and down the ballot. For someone to make it in the Republican Party these days, they simply must behave like Trump in order to impress the base. The performative cruelty is essential these days. Maybe the 2024 Republican won't be as unbearably stupid as Trump is, but he (and it will be a he) will almost certainly be just as belligerent, unreasonable, and conspiratorial.  

[Del Tachi]

Because at a certain point behavior and temperament outweigh policy issues when it comes to the highest office in the land, and indeed the world.  And we've more than reached that point.

Nope.  This seems to be a fundamental disagreement between you and me.  The president's only charge is to lead the executive branch and serve as our Commander-in-Chief, his status as a "national personality" is an invention of our media/popular culture.  Presidents during the Early Republic lived in relative obscurity, making few public appearances and mainly exercising political power through their appointment or veto ability.  When I vote for president, I'm not doing so to elect some moral or spiritual leader for our nation (although, it does seem like most Democrats fell into this trap long ago).  Political personalities can only ever be imperfect means to a preferred end.        

When I look at you, I don't see a Republican; I see a Trump supporter.  There is a very clear difference.

Well that's your problem, I guess.  

Voters should not choose party ID over the individual...yet you have.

This is true of the overwhelmingly vast majority of voters (including liberal Democrats).  It's a problem of adverse selection...voters can't expect to know everything about every candidate, so partisan labels are used as signals to indicate how you can expect someone to vote/govern.  The parties represent loose agglomerations of varied (special and not-so-special) interests more so than strict political ideologies.  Voters identify with these interests, which drives their partisan affiliation.  How is this bad?  Trump may be a distasteful individual, but that doesn't change that all the people advising him or his party in Congress are still working for the same interests that largely supported Mitt Romney or George W. Bush   

Would you have voted for Roy Moore or Doug Jones?

At the time, I was not coy in my opposition to Roy Moore.  That was even before the allegations against him.  I supported Luther Strange in the primary, and then was pretty apathetic in the GE.  Moore would have been a solid vote for McConnell, but more valuable (to me) than that was having an Alabama senator who could be a leader/voice on issues of regional importance (i.e., agriculture, defense, economic development, transportation, etc.)  I never thought Moore had the credibility to contribute to those goals, so I opposed him.  If I had been voting in Alabama at the time, I probably would have voted for Doug Jones (mostly to save my state from the embarrassment of having a Senator Moore, more so than an endorsement of Jones' politics.)  

[Calthrina950]

Hell, this actually made me nostalgic for the primary debates. It was that bad. They seemed sane and civil and fun in comparison. I miss Beto’s cringeworthy Spanish, Pete’s boring intellect, Booker’s almost creepy enthusiasm, Warren’s wonk “plans,” Marianne’s orb magic, Yang’s “MATH,” Tulsi being there for some reason. Hell, I even miss Bernie!

Literally any of these people would be better presidents than Trump. Tonight should have reminded you of that if nothing else could.

I would have gladly and enthustically voted for Yang and Gabbard had they been the Democratic nominee, and I would have held my nose and voted for O'Rourke, Buttigieg, and Booker. I may have even voted for Warren at this point, given how the past several months have progressed. Trump has certainly lowered the bar, and Biden was exactly right when describing him as the "worst President we've had"-at least in recent times, as I think James Buchanan probably still has him beat.

[Calthrina950]

I really do wonder how long it's going to take before it gets back to this. It seems absurd to think the next Republican nominee won't be like Trump, given how the party has basically become a Trump cult.

Are you sure?

Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz, Ron DeSantis, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, Larry Hogan, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Martha McSally, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Mark Cuban, Liz Cheney

vs

Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, Michal Bennet, Andy Beshear, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Cuomo, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Ben Ray Lujan, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Kirsten Gillibrand,  Deval Patrick, Steve Bullock

are all possible 2024 matchups.  Even this year, the Pence vs Harris debate is going to feel very congenial and substantive compared to the Trump/Biden s[inks]show.

Americans politics is (and always has been) largely personality-driven.  If the next election doesn't feature a brazen New York real estate mogul turned reality TV star, it will be a "return to normal".  There's nothing about Trump's personality that is inherent to the GOP.    

I'm not sure why you list Martha McSally and Chris Christie here, since McSally is about to be humiliated by Mark Kelly, and will probably be done in politics after her second consecutive Senatorial defeat, while Christie's standing was permanently damaged by Bridgegate and he seems to be content with his current roles as a political pundit and consultant. And others on here-i.e. Larry Hogan, Marco Rubio, and Nikki Haley-don't have that good of a chance at winning the Republican nomination, especially not Hogan, who is out of step with the modern Party's base and policies. But I'll agree that most of these individuals would be able to debate in a more civil and substantive manner than Trump.

[VAR]

Hell, this actually made me nostalgic for the primary debates. It was that bad. They seemed sane and civil and fun in comparison. I miss Beto’s cringeworthy Spanish, Pete’s boring intellect, Booker’s almost creepy enthusiasm, Warren’s wonk “plans,” Marianne’s orb magic, Yang’s “MATH,” Tulsi being there for some reason. Hell, I even miss Bernie!

Literally any of these people would be better presidents than Trump. Tonight should have reminded you of that if nothing else could.

I may have even voted for Warren at this point, given how the past several months have progressed.

Are you serious? Wow, b-b-b-but I thought if weak candidate Warren had been the nominee, Trump would’ve called her “socialist” and “Pocahontas” then she’d be trailing nationally and OC would be within the MoE #analysis

[Calthrina950]

Hell, this actually made me nostalgic for the primary debates. It was that bad. They seemed sane and civil and fun in comparison. I miss Beto’s cringeworthy Spanish, Pete’s boring intellect, Booker’s almost creepy enthusiasm, Warren’s wonk “plans,” Marianne’s orb magic, Yang’s “MATH,” Tulsi being there for some reason. Hell, I even miss Bernie!

Literally any of these people would be better presidents than Trump. Tonight should have reminded you of that if nothing else could.

I may have even voted for Warren at this point, given how the past several months have progressed.

Are you serious? Wow, b-b-b-but I thought if weak candidate Warren had been the nominee, Trump would’ve called her “socialist” and “Pocahontas” then she’d be trailing nationally and OC would be within the MoE #analysis

I'm saying that I may have (although I get your sarcasm). I don't like Warren, and I probably would have gone third-party if she had actually been the nominee-but in a binary choice between her and Trump, she would have gotten my vote. As I've said before, I'm not voting for Trump under any circumstances. And on a side note, Trump did mention Warren during the debate (i.e. as "Pocahontas"), but his attempts to paint Biden as a far-left extremist clearly fell flat. The majority of the electorate does not see Biden as extreme, and view him as he always has been-as an establishment liberal Democrat.

[RINO Tom]

Yes, I remember Barack Obama’s re-election quite gloriously, actually

Yeah, REALLY set us on our current glorious path.

Your party nominated this man you both sideser. After decades of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and appeasing to racists, you're gonna come here like an "enlightened moderate (hahahaha) Republican" and ing blame Obama? It was the racist birther sh**t against him that enabled Trump. The racist attacks your party encouraged.

Are you this desperate to maintain how nice and enlightened you are for being a "moderate Republican" after EVERYTHING that has happened?

Take the advice of your signature more often.

Lol, JESUS CHRIST ... calm down before you have a heart attack.  I can barely follow your logic in your response.  I don't actually think that Obama voters bear any responsibility for Trump (unless they voted for him, of course), haha.  You're responding like I insulted your mom.

[Xing]

Yeah, I remember when Republicans were (a bit) more subtle in their attempts to take healthcare away from people, make it harder to vote, make it harder to immigrate here, put the planet in danger by ignoring/denying climate change, buy elections, etc. But they were much nicer on Twitter about it and didn't interrupt as much during debates! So that makes me nostalgic for the "good old days"

I'd love more civility as much as anyone, but the lack of civility is far from the only issue with the modern Republican Party.

[RINO Tom]

Yeah, I remember when Republicans were (a bit) more subtle in their attempts to take healthcare away from people, make it harder to vote, make it harder to immigrate here, put the planet in danger by ignoring/denying climate change, buy elections, etc. But they were much nicer on Twitter about it and didn't interrupt as much during debate! So that makes me nostalgic for the "good old days"

I'd love more civility as much as anyone, but the lack of civility is far from the only issue with the modern Republican Party.

The modern GOP is a toxic disaster that needs a total overhaul, but I can't help but roll my eyes at Democrats who praise past iterations of it just to make a point, haha.

[Alcibiades]

Insane to think that Romney, really the epitome of the GOP establishment in 2012, is now considered a “moderate” by the party’s standards for not agreeing with absolutely everything the Dear Leader does.

While there was quite a lot about Republicans pre-Trump that was repulsive, at least with a corporate conservative guy like Romney you could meet them on their policy terms and not have to worry about all the sound and fury.

[Comrade Funk]

Yes, I remember Barack Obama’s re-election quite gloriously, actually

Yeah, REALLY set us on our current glorious path.

Your party nominated this man you both sideser. After decades of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and appeasing to racists, you're gonna come here like an "enlightened moderate (hahahaha) Republican" and ing blame Obama? It was the racist birther sh**t against him that enabled Trump. The racist attacks your party encouraged.

Are you this desperate to maintain how nice and enlightened you are for being a "moderate Republican" after EVERYTHING that has happened?

Take the advice of your signature more often.

Lol, JESUS CHRIST ... calm down before you have a heart attack.  I can barely follow your logic in your response.  I don't actually think that Obama voters bear any responsibility for Trump (unless they voted for him, of course), haha.  You're responding like I insulted your mom.

Don't backtrack and play Mr. Rational. Your post plainly implied Obama's reelection was to blame.