1st Presidential Debate Megathread

[Holmes]

A thought just hit me. In some wonderful alternative Universe where he demonstrated a little more self-control, Democratic nominee Senator Al Franken just demolished the incumbent President Trump with brilliant off the cuff one-liners that perfectly lampooned what a fool the man is

Well thank god we don’t live in that timeline.

Serious question, why? I'd assumed you'd love the idea of a President Franken (minus the groppyness).

Well... the groppyness is a pretty important factor! It’s not just something that I can say “aside from that, he’d be a great president”.

[Oryxslayer]

https://twitter.com/NorahODonnell/status/1311389477173178369?s=20

Good.

[Badger]

A thought just hit me. In some wonderful alternative Universe where he demonstrated a little more self-control, Democratic nominee Senator Al Franken just demolished the incumbent President Trump with brilliant off the cuff one-liners that perfectly lampooned what a fool the man is

Well thank god we don’t live in that timeline.

Serious question, why? I'd assumed you'd love the idea of a President Franken (minus the groppyness).

Well... the groppyness is a pretty important factor! It’s not just something that I can say “aside from that, he’d be a great president”.

In my alternate universe Franken doesn't have that (serious) flaw and thus becomes the Democratic nominee.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/NorahODonnell/status/1311389477173178369?s=20

Good.

Thank God

[wbrocks67]

538/Ipsos:

60% rated Biden’s performance as good, while only 33% did the same for Trump.

There was a clear winner here. And it's not just "Biden winning bc Trump lost". People actually DID think Biden did well. Once again, the pundit narrative collapses.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311385306571042816

[Splash]

538/Ipsos:

60% rated Biden’s performance as good, while only 33% did the same for Trump.

There was a clear winner here. And it's not just "Biden winning bc Trump lost". People actually DID think Biden did well. Once again, the pundit narrative collapses.

Just another anecdote, but in talking to some family this morning, I came away with an impression that, at least in terms of a singular "debate" moment, Trump's attack on Hunter Biden and his mention of his past cocaine use may have backfired spectacularly and garnered Biden quite a bit of sympathy. Biden was right to forcefully defend his son - I think people respected that on an emotional level. I was surprised to hear it being brought up unsolicited - it seemed more important to them than Trump's refusal to condemn the Proud Boys - but it makes sense given that I've had some extended family members who have had drug addictions in the past as well.

[wbrocks67]

538/Ipsos:

60% rated Biden’s performance as good, while only 33% did the same for Trump.

There was a clear winner here. And it's not just "Biden winning bc Trump lost". People actually DID think Biden did well. Once again, the pundit narrative collapses.

Just another anecdote, but in talking to some family this morning, I came away with an impression that, at least in terms of a singular "debate" moment, Trump's attack on Hunter Biden and his mention of his past cocaine use may have backfired spectacularly and garnered Biden quite a bit of sympathy. Biden was right to forcefully defend his son - I think people respected that on an emotional level. I was surprised to hear it being brought up unsolicited - it seemed more important to them than Trump's refusal to condemn the Proud Boys - but it makes sense given that I've had some extended family members who have had drug addictions in the past as well.

I agree 100%. I think Biden's strongest moments were defending his son. The drug moment as well as when he defended Beau against Trump calling military members suckers and losers and Trump flailing and disgracefully saying "I only know Hunrter."

[President Johnson]

Although I was very pleased with Joe Biden, I personally would have gone even tougher at Trump. When he said "don't use the word smart with me" and falsely claimed Joe Biden was a bad student, I would have responded with "At least I didn't buy my degree as you allegedly have done, because you don't have the intellect. This is the man who said Belgium was a city and who wanted to nuke Hurricanes", since Mary Trump claimed he did so (which is believeable). I would also have hit him harder on tax returns and said "while you at home pay your taxes, this man has paid more for sex than federal income taxes." Now I know debates should be about issues, but you need to knock a bully out. I would totally have punched him again and again where it hurts him the most.

Agreed. But it is what it is, to quote our supreme leader.

If we had a more spry nominee, they would have been better able to parry the attacks, but the trade-off is the warm, comforting feelings Biden provides during difficult times. Another obvious missed moment was when Trump kept saying his rallies were safe...his rally f***ing KILLED Herman Cain?!

Yeah, that was a huge missed opportunity. Also that folks in the lines close to Trump were required to wear a mask, while everyone else wasn't. Trump should have been hammered on this one; he cares for his own health but not about his supporters.

[xavier110]

Although I was very pleased with Joe Biden, I personally would have gone even tougher at Trump. When he said "don't use the word smart with me" and falsely claimed Joe Biden was a bad student, I would have responded with "At least I didn't buy my degree as you allegedly have done, because you don't have the intellect. This is the man who said Belgium was a city and who wanted to nuke Hurricanes", since Mary Trump claimed he did so (which is believeable). I would also have hit him harder on tax returns and said "while you at home pay your taxes, this man has paid more for sex than federal income taxes." Now I know debates should be about issues, but you need to knock a bully out. I would totally have punched him again and again where it hurts him the most.

Agreed. But it is what it is, to quote our supreme leader.

If we had a more spry nominee, they would have been better able to parry the attacks, but the trade-off is the warm, comforting feelings Biden provides during difficult times. Another obvious missed moment was when Trump kept saying his rallies were safe...his rally f***ing KILLED Herman Cain?!

Yeah, that was a huge missed opportunity. Also that folks in the lines close to Trump were required to wear a mask, while everyone else wasn't. Trump should have been hammered on this one; he cares for his own health but not about his supporters.

Biden actually did try to mention that, that Trump says keep distance from him and he doesn't care about the hordes piled on each other. It just wasn't very coherent.

[GP270watch]

Last split screen from the debate end.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311414741907116032

[xavier110]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311414741907116032

Is he already mentally processing his defeat? Hm, I guess that's a good step. LOL

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311385306571042816

After attacking Joe Biden by calling him senile and demented failed miserably....Trump is pivoting to calling him dumb?

[It’s so Joever]

I sincerely hope Team Trump tries to portray Biden as dumb.
That would be hilarious and probably the dumbest move on their part. Americans love dumb people. Especially swing voters.

[Badger]

I sincerely hope Team Trump tries to portray Biden as dumb.
That would be hilarious and probably the dumbest move on their part. Americans love dumb people. Especially swing voters.

Plus, Joe sure as hell ain't dumb. It'll flop worse than trying to portray him as sleepy and senile

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I would likely begrudgingly support Biden tho, mainly because Trump fails to condemn white supremacism!

[Del Tachi]

More results from CNN (Biden/Trump)

Who appeared as a stronger leader? - 55/43

Not a bad number for Trump

Considering that number has - - mind-bogglingly - - run in Trump's favor both generally and in matchups with potential opponents throughout his presidency, it is in fact god-awful.

But consider that these results are only among those who watched the debate.  Trump’s numbers on this metric are probably even better among the general electorate

[wbrocks67]

Should be noted that the sample was D+14 (39 D, 36 I, 25 R), so given the fact that Biden came out on top by 32%, Indies must have severely gone for Biden as well in the CNN poll

[Progressive Pessimist]

I've been trying my damnedest to extricate myself from politics, if I could help it, after Ginsburg's death made me basically have a nervous breakdown, but yesterday I did end up watching the debate even though I didn't want to. My mom wanted me to watch it with her and her boyfriend so I can fact check Trump when Biden or Wallace couldn't. So I caved, and it was exactly as frustrating and unpleasant as I had anticipated. And for suffering through it and its aftermath I have to go on a bit of a tirade, which will surely be lengthy, about what I thought of it.

I could summarize it with a simple knock-knock joke:

"Knock-knock"
"Who's there?"
"Interrupting clown."
"Interrupting clown wh-"
"HUNTER BIDEN! RADICAL LEFTISTS!"

Trump did himself no favors by being even more obnoxious than usual. He literally gave me a headache. I really mean that. My head was throbbing by the end of the debate. It was an embarrassment and not what he needed to revitalize his flailing campaign. Even worse was how low he went with some of his attacks on Biden, especially when they involved his Hunter Biden obsession. I was really disgusted by how Trump brought up Hunter's drug addiction, especially with how it contradicted against Trump's concern trolling about the rise of addiction during the pandemic lock-downs.

 As usual Trump basically demonstrated how little he actually cares about Americans and retains no core values or principles, especially in light of other contradictions like criticizing Biden for the 1994 Crime Bill (which is a legitimate criticism) but also somehow trying to portray him as being too soft on crime. Or the other example of professing himself as God's gift to black Americans yet not acknowledging their concerns about police brutality (when it doesn't serve the purpose of attacking Biden) or their concerns with the rise of white supremacy and how Trump has enabled it.

It's evident to me that the "you'll be in jail" comment from the second debate in 2016 against Clinton went to Trump's head as his often perceived "best" moment, especially in the view of his sycophantic followers and inner circles, and thought that's all he needed to do to prepare was come up with similar low-blows derived from debunked conspiracies. They definitely seem to have backfired though, as often happens when Trump gets cocky. He had nothing else, and even some of them were pretty weak and bizarre. Who really gives a f*** about where Biden placed in his college graduation class!? Isn't education supposed to be elitist?! Oh right, it's just another double standard for Democrats. And what was up with him basically blaming Pacific states for their wildfire problems? Sure, clearing underbrush is part of what prevents wildfires, but Trump failed to consider how temperatures are rising, precipitation decreasing, people living closer to the wilderness, and the effect of species like bark beetles on trees. I hope he loses California by even more now. It's as obvious as ever that he resents the states that didn't vote for him and doesn't consider them worthy of his responsibility to them as Americans.

I will give him this though, I don't think he sniffled once throughout the entire debate. That doesn't make his performance any less of a disgrace though, especially at the end of the debate when he unleashed an onslaught of deceptive bile about mail-in voting and whether the would accept the election's results or not. It's f***ing frightening and it should be talked about just as much as the Proud Boys moment. Also let's not forget that he returned to the well of accusing Obama of spying on his campaign again. Honestly, with how the debate went and considering the relatively weak ratings and how poorly received Trump's performance was, which was almost a microcosm of his entire personality,  amidst consistently polling behind Biden in battleground and national polls, I am starting to think that this election is becoming more of a referendum on Trump as a person rather than one based on his policies or record. Those now seem incidental. People really just might finally be sick of Trump and his presence in their everyday lives. I'm certainly one of them. Hell, I've felt that way since he went full Birther in 2011 or whatever.

As for Biden, I cannot deny being slightly disappointed in him. His debating skills have definitely degraded in the eight years since he dispatched Paul Ryan. We are not electing a debater or communicator though, as much as they help. We are electing a leader and Biden still managed to make himself look like the obviously more qualified person for a position there. He is older though, and that's to be expected. The real disappointment was in him leaving some Trump rhetoric unchallenged. In my head I was coming up with simple quips that he could have said for many of them but two in particular stood out:

-Regarding COVID-19 and campaign events I would have said something along the lines of: "I actually care about the health and safety of my supporters and don't want them to end up like Herman Cain. So I wear a mask to set an example as such."

-Regarding the Supreme Court and lower court appointments: I would have pointed out how McConnell and Senate Republicans had obstructed Obama of rightful appointments and established a precedent that they are now walking back on and exposing themselves as hypocrites.

I don't know why he didn't make those simple points. Was it out of some sort of fear of alienating anti-Trump Republicans? Was it just because those might have been seen as him "stooping to Trump's level?" Honestly, if both are true they weren't worth it because Biden seems to be being perceived, wrongly and through false-equivalency, of playing Trump's game anyway because oh noes! he told Trump to shut up and called him a clown (respect has to be earned even by a President, CNN focus group guy who had a problem with that!)! *Gasp*. But then again, even as false-equivalency is rearing its ugly head, Biden may have known what he was doing by being more calm and passive as he didn't have any moments nearly as objectionable by Trump, even when discussed by a media who has clearly only barely learned a lesson from 2016's coverage. I guess there was also only so much he could do when Trump wouldn't stop interrupting him. Also in terms of optics I wonder if people found Biden sympathetic at all. I certainly did due to Trump taking cheap shots at Hunter which Biden never did about Trump's kids (who deserve it more) as well as just plainly seeing this grotesque mandarin maniac basically harass an older (and let's face it, Biden does look old) gentleman who just wanted to talk about issues that concern average Americans. Another thing Biden did right was, when he could, talking more about actual Americans rather than all about himself like Trump did. It did make Biden seem like the more caring and relatable candidate. Also, maybe it was the low expectations set for him, but Biden has also managed to prove himself capable of having the endurance that many were often skeptical about. I never doubted it, but even in spite of a few minor verbal flubs, Biden is clearly capable of leading the country for four years. I hope most who watched, supporter of his or not, at least managed to get that out of last night's travesty.

All that said, while I would consider Biden the legitimate winner of the debate, who got better as it went along (contrary to the primaries, ironically, where the reverse often seemed true), he didn't outright shellac Trump like Clinton did in all three 2016 debates, the first one especially. I don't think it could hurt for Biden to do a bit more debate prep before the next debate now that he knows what trump is going to probably pull again. Of course, the debate commission seems to aware of what a clusterf*** was and will hopefully incorporate some changes to make it less raucous. Also a town hall format is probably a much better one for Biden to really take advantage of his interpersonal skills. I still don't really think I want to watch that one either though, especially now. I will probably watch the Harris-Pence debate though. Her whole schtick is "prosecuting" Republicans and I think she'll make mincemeat out of Pence's boring ass and deliver more on holding the administration to account as opponents of it wanted to see more from Biden. She just needs to have a defense prepared for her prosecution background as that will surely come up even as it is completely muddled with the Trump-Pence "law and order" emphasis. It also could be a preview of 2024! Depending on how much I have to say about it, I may or may not post about it. So, look forward to that?

Oh, and Chris Wallace was also disappointing when it came to moderating. He was definitely fair but I wish he would have fact-checked Trump a bit more and been more forceful in silencing him when he went over his time or when it was Biden's turn to talk. Then again, there is only so much you can probably do with Trump and his scorched Earth stubbornness. Cutting the mics really might be a necessary solution for the future.

Anyway, I just wanted to pop in and share all this, read it or don't. I will be returning to trying to put my blinders back on in regards to politics and the news for the most part now. It's still as ugly as I feared and I just want it all to be over, for the sake of my health and the nation's. I'm becoming increasingly more sure of Biden winning at least. Hopefully it's overwhelming enough that Trump and the GOP can't be successful with any of their planned shenanigans.

[Indy Texas]

I'm amazed that after over four years of this stuff, these people keep deluding themselves into thinking Trump can "start acting presidential," let alone a month before the election.

https://twitter.com/GabbyOrr_/status/1311445830512119814?s=20

[Splash]

Wow. $31.5 million raised by Biden in the 24 hours after the debate.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Flaherty/status/1311500976352886784

[Badger]

More results from CNN (Biden/Trump)

Who appeared as a stronger leader? - 55/43

Not a bad number for Trump

Considering that number has - - mind-bogglingly - - run in Trump's favor both generally and in matchups with potential opponents throughout his presidency, it is in fact god-awful.

But consider that these results are only among those who watched the debate.  Trump’s numbers on this metric are probably even better among the general electorate

So, what you're saying is Trump is perceived as a strong leader until people actually get us a sustained look at him, particularly when trying to go head-to-head with Biden?

This is not good news for your team, chief.

[Dr. Arch]

[Blair]

Just wait for John Kelly to become chief of staff!

I'm amazed that after over four years of this stuff, these people keep deluding themselves into thinking Trump can "start acting presidential," let alone a month before the election.

https://twitter.com/GabbyOrr_/status/1311445830512119814?s=20