Never Trump Republicans: Would court packing change your mind about the election

[Alben Barkley]

OSR, why would you revoke your support for Biden over something like court-packing, but not revoke your support for Trump over the myriad unconstitutional, anti-democratic and anti-institutional actions he's taken?  Is adding 2 justices to the Supreme Court really further out there than any of the horrible things Trump has done?

For instance, is it worse than withholding military aid from an ally as blackmail to force their president to agree to fabricate a criminal investigation against your political opponent?

Is it worse than politicizing the Centers for Disease Control to force them, during a pandemic, to release false information to the American public, for your own personal political benefit?

I could keep going but you get my point.  You're freaking out over something Biden hasn't even said and jumping ship to a guy who's done far, far worse things.

And all the Republicans on Atlas are ignoring the fact that nobody actually wants to pack the court.  The only reason this discussion is being had is because Republicans have already torn up the constitution to pack the court with their guys, and everyone in your party, including you, seems to be just cool with it.  Either you're for court-packing or you're against it.  Pick a side.  Don't just switch sides based on the political party that's benefitting from it.

This.

And then there’s also the fact that it’s not actually unconstitutional to add justices to the Court. In fact, the Constitution says remarkably little about SCOTUS at all; if anything, pretty clear the founders wanted Congress to have the most power so they probably would not really object to the idea that strongly. It wasn’t until John Marshall basically granted SCOTUS magic powers out of thin air in Marbury v. Madison, powers that weren’t granted in the Constitution explicitly, that SCOTUS began to take on a life of its own. But it’s all based on shockingly little actual law, and a hell of a lot more on justices just pulling crap out of their asses. How anyone can say with a straight face that SCOTUS is some sacred institution after Dred Scott, Plessy, etc. is beyond me. It’s been a politicized, partisan institution which is as corrupt as any basically forever. We essentially have just pretended otherwise for a while and gotten by on that. But if the Republicans want to tear that pretense down, as Cocaine Moscow Mitch clearly does, so be it. There will be hell to pay when they do though. Time for the Court to have some LONG-needed and WELL-earned reform, I think.

[7,052,770]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

Biden on court packing: “I would not get into court packing. We had three justices. Next time around, we lose control, they add three justices. We begin to lose any credibility the court has at all.”

Now, this was said during the primaries, long before the circumstances of today, but I still think Biden hasn't changed his position. His whole campaign is about returning to normalcy and uniting Americans. Whether you believe he will stay true to that message is up to you. Even if he wanted to do it, the Senate will most likely only have 50 Democratic senators if Biden wins. Do you really think Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema would do something that appears so blatantly partisan?

Well the Republicans also said that they firmly, truly, deeply believed that a president shouldn't appoint a supreme court justice in an election year.

The Republicans have gone back on their word and revealed that they were treacherous liars the entire time.  Why should the Democrats keep pretending that this is an arena where integrity is anything but a weakness?

Didn't McConnell say that the rule applied only if the presidency and the Senate were held by different parties?

He does now and has a few times over the last 4 years, but that was never the way he sold it in the immediate aftermath of Scalia's death.

[OSR stands with Israel]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

There is literally no justifiable reason to ever support Trump, or even entertain the idea. If you “find” one, you were just waiting for an excuse to come all along. And if one hadn’t come, in the end you would have just made one up. A true Never Trumper would, uh, NEVER vote for Trump. Period.

You disgust me. I don’t want your vote and in fact I hope you do vote for your fascist god-emperor, as you clearly were planning to all along. I do not want anyone who unironically believes that voting for evil fascism is a viable option under any circumstances to be on “my side.”

Fortunately actual Never Trumpers like the Lincoln Project are standing firm. They have 100 times more guts than you could ever dream of having.

By the way, it’s “to” in this instance, not “too.” And your capitalization and general grammar is all over the place. Why is it Trumpers like you can never get the basics of the English language right? I guess if you can’t cross the 100 IQ threshold, it’s a challenge. But I still think the bar is pretty low, and STILL Trumpers like you consistently fail to meet it!

And yes, you are a Trumper. If there is even a 0.001% chance you will vote for Trump, if you have even entertained the idea at all, you are a Trumper. No one with a brain and/or heart and/or soul would even consider it for a fraction of a second. Clearly, you have shown your true colors.

“Old School” Republican, my ass. I knew it all along. Of course there is no such thing as a good Republican. And the “Old School” ones weren’t that great either, by the way.

You know I have been saying this is one of the few absolute redlines I had all the way back in  January. Also look at this poll, it’s clear that other Never Trumpers are I’m my camp too so maybe instead of insulting us maybe stop acting like trump when it comes to our institutions and our republic .

Finally if course , this still hasn’t come to pass, it’s just restating a warning I made in January . Biden needs never trumpers to win and that’s a reason why he is winning while a supporter of court packing like Warren would be losing 

[GeneralMacArthur]

Didn't McConnell say that the rule applied only if the presidency and the Senate were held by different parties?

No.  He was quite clear at the time.  Not a single Republican senator ever breathed a word of the backwards-rationalization they're flinging around now, and believe me they were challenged on it mightily.  I hate that this word has become so commonplace in #resistance-circles, but what's happening right now is literally the textbook definition of gaslighting.

[TrendsareUsuallyReal]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

There is literally no justifiable reason to ever support Trump, or even entertain the idea. If you “find” one, you were just waiting for an excuse to come all along. And if one hadn’t come, in the end you would have just made one up. A true Never Trumper would, uh, NEVER vote for Trump. Period.

You disgust me. I don’t want your vote and in fact I hope you do vote for your fascist god-emperor, as you clearly were planning to all along. I do not want anyone who unironically believes that voting for evil fascism is a viable option under any circumstances to be on “my side.”

Fortunately actual Never Trumpers like the Lincoln Project are standing firm. They have 100 times more guts than you could ever dream of having.

By the way, it’s “to” in this instance, not “too.” And your capitalization and general grammar is all over the place. Why is it Trumpers like you can never get the basics of the English language right? I guess if you can’t cross the 100 IQ threshold, it’s a challenge. But I still think the bar is pretty low, and STILL Trumpers like you consistently fail to meet it!

And yes, you are a Trumper. If there is even a 0.001% chance you will vote for Trump, if you have even entertained the idea at all, you are a Trumper. No one with a brain and/or heart and/or soul would even consider it for a fraction of a second. Clearly, you have shown your true colors.

“Old School” Republican, my ass. I knew it all along. Of course there is no such thing as a good Republican. And the “Old School” ones weren’t that great either, by the way.

You know I have been saying this is one of the few absolute redlines I had all the way back in  January. Also look at this poll, it’s clear that other Never Trumpers are I’m my camp too so maybe instead of insulting us maybe stop acting like trump when it comes to our institutions and our republic .

Finally if course , this still hasn’t come to pass, it’s just restating a warning I made in January . Biden needs never trumpers to win and that’s a reason why he is winning while a supporter of court packing like Warren would be losing 

Let’s make this clear right now, Biden does not need the support of “Never Trump” Republicans who plan on voting R downballot. He can win easily without them, as 2018 showed.

[OSR stands with Israel]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

There is literally no justifiable reason to ever support Trump, or even entertain the idea. If you “find” one, you were just waiting for an excuse to come all along. And if one hadn’t come, in the end you would have just made one up. A true Never Trumper would, uh, NEVER vote for Trump. Period.

You disgust me. I don’t want your vote and in fact I hope you do vote for your fascist god-emperor, as you clearly were planning to all along. I do not want anyone who unironically believes that voting for evil fascism is a viable option under any circumstances to be on “my side.”

Fortunately actual Never Trumpers like the Lincoln Project are standing firm. They have 100 times more guts than you could ever dream of having.

By the way, it’s “to” in this instance, not “too.” And your capitalization and general grammar is all over the place. Why is it Trumpers like you can never get the basics of the English language right? I guess if you can’t cross the 100 IQ threshold, it’s a challenge. But I still think the bar is pretty low, and STILL Trumpers like you consistently fail to meet it!

And yes, you are a Trumper. If there is even a 0.001% chance you will vote for Trump, if you have even entertained the idea at all, you are a Trumper. No one with a brain and/or heart and/or soul would even consider it for a fraction of a second. Clearly, you have shown your true colors.

“Old School” Republican, my ass. I knew it all along. Of course there is no such thing as a good Republican. And the “Old School” ones weren’t that great either, by the way.

You know I have been saying this is one of the few absolute redlines I had all the way back in  January. Also look at this poll, it’s clear that other Never Trumpers are I’m my camp too so maybe instead of insulting us maybe stop acting like trump when it comes to our institutions and our republic .

Finally if course , this still hasn’t come to pass, it’s just restating a warning I made in January . Biden needs never trumpers to win and that’s a reason why he is winning while a supporter of court packing like Warren would be losing 

Let’s make this clear right now, Biden does not need the support of “Never Trump” Republicans who plan on voting R downballot. He can win easily without them, as 2018 showed.

Romney-Clinton voters are never Trump Republicans

[Dr. MB]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

There is literally no justifiable reason to ever support Trump, or even entertain the idea. If you “find” one, you were just waiting for an excuse to come all along. And if one hadn’t come, in the end you would have just made one up. A true Never Trumper would, uh, NEVER vote for Trump. Period.

You disgust me. I don’t want your vote and in fact I hope you do vote for your fascist god-emperor, as you clearly were planning to all along. I do not want anyone who unironically believes that voting for evil fascism is a viable option under any circumstances to be on “my side.”

Fortunately actual Never Trumpers like the Lincoln Project are standing firm. They have 100 times more guts than you could ever dream of having.

By the way, it’s “to” in this instance, not “too.” And your capitalization and general grammar is all over the place. Why is it Trumpers like you can never get the basics of the English language right? I guess if you can’t cross the 100 IQ threshold, it’s a challenge. But I still think the bar is pretty low, and STILL Trumpers like you consistently fail to meet it!

And yes, you are a Trumper. If there is even a 0.001% chance you will vote for Trump, if you have even entertained the idea at all, you are a Trumper. No one with a brain and/or heart and/or soul would even consider it for a fraction of a second. Clearly, you have shown your true colors.

“Old School” Republican, my ass. I knew it all along. Of course there is no such thing as a good Republican. And the “Old School” ones weren’t that great either, by the way.

You know I have been saying this is one of the few absolute redlines I had all the way back in  January. Also look at this poll, it’s clear that other Never Trumpers are I’m my camp too so maybe instead of insulting us maybe stop acting like trump when it comes to our institutions and our republic .

Finally if course , this still hasn’t come to pass, it’s just restating a warning I made in January . Biden needs never trumpers to win and that’s a reason why he is winning while a supporter of court packing like Warren would be losing 

Let’s make this clear right now, Biden does not need the support of “Never Trump” Republicans who plan on voting R downballot. He can win easily without them, as 2018 showed.

Romney-Clinton voters are never Trump Republicans

Most Romney-Clinton voters don’t consider themselves Republican anymore.

[TrendsareUsuallyReal]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

There is literally no justifiable reason to ever support Trump, or even entertain the idea. If you “find” one, you were just waiting for an excuse to come all along. And if one hadn’t come, in the end you would have just made one up. A true Never Trumper would, uh, NEVER vote for Trump. Period.

You disgust me. I don’t want your vote and in fact I hope you do vote for your fascist god-emperor, as you clearly were planning to all along. I do not want anyone who unironically believes that voting for evil fascism is a viable option under any circumstances to be on “my side.”

Fortunately actual Never Trumpers like the Lincoln Project are standing firm. They have 100 times more guts than you could ever dream of having.

By the way, it’s “to” in this instance, not “too.” And your capitalization and general grammar is all over the place. Why is it Trumpers like you can never get the basics of the English language right? I guess if you can’t cross the 100 IQ threshold, it’s a challenge. But I still think the bar is pretty low, and STILL Trumpers like you consistently fail to meet it!

And yes, you are a Trumper. If there is even a 0.001% chance you will vote for Trump, if you have even entertained the idea at all, you are a Trumper. No one with a brain and/or heart and/or soul would even consider it for a fraction of a second. Clearly, you have shown your true colors.

“Old School” Republican, my ass. I knew it all along. Of course there is no such thing as a good Republican. And the “Old School” ones weren’t that great either, by the way.

You know I have been saying this is one of the few absolute redlines I had all the way back in  January. Also look at this poll, it’s clear that other Never Trumpers are I’m my camp too so maybe instead of insulting us maybe stop acting like trump when it comes to our institutions and our republic .

Finally if course , this still hasn’t come to pass, it’s just restating a warning I made in January . Biden needs never trumpers to win and that’s a reason why he is winning while a supporter of court packing like Warren would be losing 

Let’s make this clear right now, Biden does not need the support of “Never Trump” Republicans who plan on voting R downballot. He can win easily without them, as 2018 showed.

Romney-Clinton voters are never Trump Republicans

Studies show over 90% of those voters are downballot Dems now. Case in point: look at how Chester County turfed out all Republicans in the past four years

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The Crts have had moderate Rs on it since Nixon, but since Bush W, there aren't any moderates left except Justice Roberts

We had Potter Stewart, Brennan, Warren, Powell, Burger, Stevens, Souter, Kennedy and now Roberts, that all got rid of Jim Crow; consequently, that will go away if Trump appoints a conservative, on Roe.

This is why Dems are talking about Crt packing, Kennedy didn't have to retire, unlike Ginnsburg, he chosed to retire, and betrayed the Dems, due to the fact, he was friends with Trump and Don Jr.

Crt packing will be enforced, due to the polls that came out today show, that Espy, Hegar, Bullock can be in fact Senators, due to Trump's continued disapproval on his mishandling of Covid, and the economy is still in partial shutdown mode

[7,052,770]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

There is literally no justifiable reason to ever support Trump, or even entertain the idea. If you “find” one, you were just waiting for an excuse to come all along. And if one hadn’t come, in the end you would have just made one up. A true Never Trumper would, uh, NEVER vote for Trump. Period.

You disgust me. I don’t want your vote and in fact I hope you do vote for your fascist god-emperor, as you clearly were planning to all along. I do not want anyone who unironically believes that voting for evil fascism is a viable option under any circumstances to be on “my side.”

Fortunately actual Never Trumpers like the Lincoln Project are standing firm. They have 100 times more guts than you could ever dream of having.

By the way, it’s “to” in this instance, not “too.” And your capitalization and general grammar is all over the place. Why is it Trumpers like you can never get the basics of the English language right? I guess if you can’t cross the 100 IQ threshold, it’s a challenge. But I still think the bar is pretty low, and STILL Trumpers like you consistently fail to meet it!

And yes, you are a Trumper. If there is even a 0.001% chance you will vote for Trump, if you have even entertained the idea at all, you are a Trumper. No one with a brain and/or heart and/or soul would even consider it for a fraction of a second. Clearly, you have shown your true colors.

“Old School” Republican, my ass. I knew it all along. Of course there is no such thing as a good Republican. And the “Old School” ones weren’t that great either, by the way.

You know I have been saying this is one of the few absolute redlines I had all the way back in  January. Also look at this poll, it’s clear that other Never Trumpers are I’m my camp too so maybe instead of insulting us maybe stop acting like trump when it comes to our institutions and our republic .

Finally if course , this still hasn’t come to pass, it’s just restating a warning I made in January . Biden needs never trumpers to win and that’s a reason why he is winning while a supporter of court packing like Warren would be losing 

Trump and McConnell are attempting to pack right now by changing the norms yet again to ensure Trump gets to replace both Scalia and Ginsburg. If packing is truly a red line for you, you should be furious at that, rather than focusing on what Joe Biden might do in response to such a pack.

[beaver2.0]

Either Obama should have gotten to replace Scalia or the new president should get to replace Ginsburg. Period. If Republicans get to replace both, it's packing the Court. If Democrats add 2 seats, they're just evening out the Republican packing.

If OSR actually cared about court packing, he would support Democrats making up for it if Republicans do indeed confirm a Ginsburg replacement.

The senate has the right to approve or reject all judicial appointments. McConnell reasoning was completely bs but that doenst mean it was stolen

I guess what I don't understand here is that you agree what McConnell did is ridiculous, so if it's ridiculous why should the Democrats just take it and not fire back by doing something ridiculous?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

It's gonna be a 51/49 Senate AZ, CO, GA, NC and Feinstein and Manchin and Sinema are no votes on CRT packing.  Rs dont have to worry about it, any longer

[Former President tack50]

Like I said, being "Never Trump" does not mean you have to vote for Biden. Jorgensen is there waiting for people to notice her (or Blankenship I guess lol, or really any third party candidate)

[Battista Minola 1616]

Like I said, being "Never Trump" does not mean you have to vote for Biden. Jorgensen is there waiting for people to notice her (or Blankenship I guess lol, or really any third party candidate)

Or skipping the presidential election and only voting down-ballot to be honest.

[Roemerista]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

No.

If Biden came out for court packing that would make me have to vote for Trump, and I think I've made it quite clear that is something I do not wish to do. In fact I tend to vote straight dem now just because my current test is if a candidate would have impeached him.

Judges are the only thing that makes voting for Biden a huge moral challenge - but its ameliorated by the fact that he would only get one or two in the normal course of things. Weighted against the abject evil of Trump's treatment of refugees, silence on the genocide in China, locking of children in cages, makes Biden support acceptable.

Court packing changes that calculus. A packed court will certainly cause more long term evil than another four years of Trump. He would do great harm - but the unimaginable destruction of a liberal court would inflict upon religious liberty and the right to life would become permanent.

[7,052,770]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

No.

If Biden came out for court packing that would make me have to vote for Trump, and I think I've made it quite clear that is something I do not wish to do. In fact I tend to vote straight dem now just because my current test is if a candidate would have impeached him.

Judges are the only thing that makes voting for Biden a huge moral challenge - but its ameliorated by the fact that he would only get one or two in the normal course of things. Weighted against the abject evil of Trump's treatment of refugees, silence on the genocide in China, locking of children in cages, makes Biden support acceptable.

Court packing changes that calculus. A packed court will certainly cause more long term evil than another four years of Trump. He would do great harm - but the unimaginable destruction of a liberal court would inflict upon religious liberty and the right to life would become permanent.

So if Republicans fail to fill the seat, letting Biden get the Court to R+1, you'll vote Biden, but if Republicans do fill the seat, and Biden promises to get the Court to R+1, you won't? How does that make sense? R+1 is R+1.

[President Johnson]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Democrats: Do X
OSR: Ok I will vote for Trump
Atlas D's: You were always a secret TRUMP VOTER !!!!!!!!.

Wrong.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Republicans: Do X themselves (or, more accurately promise to do X)
Democrats: I mean, I guess we'll have no choice but to do X too if Republicans do X...
OSR: I can't believe the Democrats would do X! I will vote for Trump now!
Atlas Ds [no apostrophe]: Hmmm, I guess you weren't really sincere when you said X is bad...

Court packing to OSR is increasing the size of the court. He may like the political maneuvers pulled by the senate GOP but to him it is not increasing the size of the court and he sees court packing as much worse. He had a red line and Democrats are debating to cross it. Its their choice but they should tread carefully still.

The number of justices aren't what constitutes a pack. If a president just decided to add one liberal and one conservative judge at the same time without a vacancy, that wouldn't be a pack. Messing with the margin is what makes a pack.

If Obama had gotten to fill Scalia's seat and then Trump filled Ginsburg's, it comes out to 5 R, 4 D (R+1 margin).
If the McConnell Rule were enforced on both, it still ends up 5 R, 4 D assuming Biden wins (R+1 margin)

But if the hypocritical, insincere Republicans fill Ginsburg's seat after also getting to fill Scalia's thanks to a phony made up rule, it's 6 R, 3 D (R+3 margin). That's a pack. That's functionally identical to letting Obama and Trump fill the respective seats and then Republicans just adding 2 more to get to 7 R, 4 D (R+3 margin).

Again, the margin is what makes a pack, not the number of judges technically. If Barrett is confirmed before January, and Biden adds 2 justices, it's 6 R, 5 D (R+1 margin). That's canceling out the Republican pack, and not packing themselves.

If OSR is truly against packing and not just grandstanding, he will explicitly support Biden adding 2 justices to cancel out the Republican pack to get the margin back to R+1.

This is the correct answer.

I was originally opposed to court packing, but Democrats have no choice if Ruth Bader Ginsburg gets replaced by Trump despite him losing the election after they have already stolen a seat from Obama.

Opposing court packing for the sake of "preserving institutions" is not the correct answer since Trump and his enablers have assaulted and delegitimized American (and international) institutions ever since they got in for solely political gain. More over, they have undermined said institutions by their criminal behavior. They have caused damage that will last much longer than Trump himself. Adding two more justices to the Supreme Court is not even undermining the institution as such since the constitution left the number of seats for congress to decide. If the next congress is controlled by Democrats and their elected members decide with a majority in both chambers that the number of seats is increased to eleven, and the president (Joe Biden) signs it into law, that's a totally legitimate and democratic (small d) decision.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

How can anyone who is against packing the courts and been paying attention the past few years be seriously considering voting for a Republican?  I could respect someone who places the integrity of the courts as their highest principle deciding either that they'll vote third party or that they'll make their choice on some other issue. I can't respect a person who claims they highly value the integrity of the courts and thus will vote Republican because the Democrats refuse to let the Republicans play "Heads we win; tails you lose" with the courts.