Never Trump Republicans: Would court packing change your mind about the election

[OSR stands with Israel]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

[Calthrina950]

I'm not a Republican (obviously), but this isn't going to change my vote, at least not from Biden to Trump. I've resolved never to vote for Trump, as he is an odious and reprehensible character who needs to be shown the door. However, I'll still consider voting third-party if I find it to be necessary. We'll see what happens over the next month and a half.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I'm not a Republican (obviously), but this isn't going to change my vote, at least not from Biden to Trump. I've resolved never to vote for Trump, as he is an odious and reprehensible character who needs to be shown the door. However, I'll still consider voting third-party if I find it to be necessary. We'll see what happens over the next month and a half.

One of the reasons I supported Biden in the primaries is so we’d have a dem who’d oppose things like this.

[7,052,770]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

Lol no

If Democrats try to do this I hope republicans obstruct that president at least 5 times more than they did to Obama


Also if any democrat runs on this is they win the nomination, I will drop my never Trumpism in a second and will vote to re-elect Trump as that Democrat will have proven that they totally hate democracy , and are a total threat to our constitution .

I said this in January




Lastly stop treating this as a trivial issue , this is a massive massive issue  bigger than economic, foreign or social policy

[GeneralMacArthur]

OSR, why would you revoke your support for Biden over something like court-packing, but not revoke your support for Trump over the myriad unconstitutional, anti-democratic and anti-institutional actions he's taken?  Is adding 2 justices to the Supreme Court really further out there than any of the horrible things Trump has done?

For instance, is it worse than withholding military aid from an ally as blackmail to force their president to agree to fabricate a criminal investigation against your political opponent?

Is it worse than politicizing the Centers for Disease Control to force them, during a pandemic, to release false information to the American public, for your own personal political benefit?

I could keep going but you get my point.  You're freaking out over something Biden hasn't even said and jumping ship to a guy who's done far, far worse things.

And all the Republicans on Atlas are ignoring the fact that nobody actually wants to pack the court.  The only reason this discussion is being had is because Republicans have already torn up the constitution to pack the court with their guys, and everyone in your party, including you, seems to be just cool with it.  Either you're for court-packing or you're against it.  Pick a side.  Don't just switch sides based on the political party that's benefitting from it.

[Vosem]

Maybe, if I were in a more competitive state, especially in conjunction with Middle East peace deals. Still very likely third-party, though.

Increasingly Jorgensen-Trump-Biden in a hypothetical RCV election, though. Was Johnson-Clinton-Trump in 2016 (also voted third-party then).

[OSR stands with Israel]

OSR, why would you revoke your support for Biden over something like court-packing, but not revoke your support for Trump over the myriad unconstitutional, anti-democratic and anti-institutional actions he's taken?  Is adding 2 justices to the Supreme Court really further out there than any of the horrible things Trump has done?

For instance, is it worse than withholding military aid from an ally as blackmail to force their president to agree to fabricate a criminal investigation against your political opponent?

Is it worse than politicizing the Centers for Disease Control to force them, during a pandemic, to release false information to the American public, for your own personal political benefit?

I could keep going but you get my point.  You're freaking out over something Biden hasn't even said and jumping ship to a guy who's done far, far worse things.

And all the Republicans on Atlas are ignoring the fact that nobody actually wants to pack the court.  The only reason this discussion is being had is because Republicans have already torn up the constitution to pack the court with their guys, and everyone in your party, including you, seems to be just cool with it.  Either you're for court-packing or you're against it.  Pick a side.  Don't just switch sides based on the political party that's benefitting from it.

Well I have revoked support of trump over those actions , and one of the main reasons why I supported Biden is cause I believed he would be a strong defenders of institutions. But if he goes through with the left demand of tearing up our Supreme Court then one of the core reasons why I’d support a dem this time is gone .

Literally if you set a precedent the courts can be packed then their literally is no Supreme Court anymore and say bye bye to one of the most important checks and balances out there . I don’t know why everyone is treating this as some trivial thing , for me this is an extremely extremely important issue and court packing just cannot happen under any I mean any circumstances.


Like i said about judges , Supreme Court Justice have been blocked before and also no we haven’t torn up the constitution. Conservative justices  vote against republicans far more than liberal justices vote against democrats cause of the fact conservative justices don’t have the “living breathing theory” they can go back on . So no that’s just not true .


Lastly given I’m in Oregon I may decide to just write in Mitt Romney in November, but the fact is if the election is about who I agree more on policy then I’d support  the republican of course .


So to make me vote for a Democrat right now the argument has to be something else than policy and if Democrats want to destroy our institutions like trump does then saving our institutions no longer becomes an issue I’d vote on which by the way is one of the main reasons I opposed trump , due to the damage he was doing to our institutions.


So if democrats want my support , my requirement of not being like Trump when it comes to institutions isn’t much to ask for at all . It’s really super basic and if Biden is anything like I thought of him he will denounce court packing without any reservations and he will pass the test  .



Like I have said I haven’t jumped ship yet , I’m just on the reserve judgement stage

[7,052,770]

Either Obama should have gotten to replace Scalia or the new president should get to replace Ginsburg. Period. If Republicans get to replace both, it's packing the Court. If Democrats add 2 seats, they're just evening out the Republican packing.

If OSR actually cared about court packing, he would support Democrats making up for it if Republicans do indeed confirm a Ginsburg replacement.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Either Obama should have gotten to replace Scalia or the new president should get to replace Ginsburg. Period. If Republicans get to replace both, it's packing the Court. If Democrats add 2 seats, they're just evening out the Republican packing.

If OSR actually cared about court packing, he would support Democrats making up for it if Republicans do indeed confirm a Ginsburg replacement.

The senate has the right to approve or reject all judicial appointments. McConnell reasoning was completely bs but that doenst mean it was stolen

[7,052,770]

Either Obama should have gotten to replace Scalia or the new president should get to replace Ginsburg. Period. If Republicans get to replace both, it's packing the Court. If Democrats add 2 seats, they're just evening out the Republican packing.

If OSR actually cared about court packing, he would support Democrats making up for it if Republicans do indeed confirm a Ginsburg replacement.

The senate has the right to approve or reject all judicial appointments. McConnell reasoning was completely bs but that doenst mean it was stolen

And the president and the senate have the right to put any number of judges on the Supreme Court if that's how you want to look at it.

The right thing to do would be to hold to the McConnell Precedent and let the new president pick the next justice. It's still not right that they changed the rules to their benefit, but at least it's a new normal that can be construed as fair going forward. But if they're going to throw that away the very next election year to grab another Supreme Court seat, that's packing. If you're against packing, that's just as bad as a party adding new seats onto the Court.

If Democrats were talking about adding 4 or 6 seats, I could see an anti-packer voting Trump. But as long as it's just adding 2 and even then only if Trump's nominee is confirmed, all that is doing is canceling out the packing that Republicans did.

[Former President tack50]

Unlike others I get where OSR is coming from; and why he would switch. I myself would be disappointed if Dems actively campaigned on packing the courts. I would still support the Dems 100% but I'd be disappointed. (not like my opinion matters for obvious reasons)

However I will ask you a question: Why not simply vote third party?

I don't think I need to go over why Trump is so bad, and Biden (in this scenario and in your opinion) is also unacceptable because of court packing.

So why not vote for Jorgensen then?

[Beet]

This is why the Democrats should not advocate court packing. Instead they should propose a list of moderate justices that they ask Trump to nominate in exchange for something else like cutting a deal on the next COVID-19 aid package, or work with moderate Republican Senators in a Gang of 14 deal like in 2005.

The ideal nominee should be someone who is picked by Trump, and can get through the Senate by unanimous support.

[7,052,770]

Ultimate, OSR is fine with Republicans packing the Court, but if Democrats do it, he's voting for Trump after all, giving him the excuse to do what his heart has always truly wanted.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Unlike others I get where OSR is coming from; and why he would switch. I myself would be disappointed if Dems actively campaigned on packing the courts. I would still support the Dems 100% but I'd be disappointed. (not like my opinion matters for obvious reasons)

However I will ask you a question: Why not simply vote third party?

I don't think I need to go over why Trump is so bad, and Biden (in this scenario and in your opinion) is also unacceptable because of court packing.

So why not vote for Jorgensen then?

Well what I mean by this is yah you can vote third party/write in(like id probably do) but what election result would you be more upset by while watching the coverage .

[lfromnj]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Democrats: Do X
OSR: Ok I will vote for Trump
Atlas D's: You were always a secret TRUMP VOTER !!!!!!!!.

[7,052,770]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Democrats: Do X
OSR: Ok I will vote for Trump
Atlas D's: You were always a secret TRUMP VOTER !!!!!!!!.

Wrong.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Republicans: Do X themselves (or, more accurately promise to do X)
Democrats: I mean, I guess we'll have no choice but to do X too if Republicans do X...
OSR: I can't believe the Democrats would do X! I will vote for Trump now!
Atlas Ds [no apostrophe]: Hmmm, I guess you weren't really sincere when you said X is bad...

[lfromnj]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Democrats: Do X
OSR: Ok I will vote for Trump
Atlas D's: You were always a secret TRUMP VOTER !!!!!!!!.

Wrong.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Republicans: Do X themselves (or, more accurately promise to do X)
Democrats: I mean, I guess we'll have no choice but to do X too if Republicans do X...
OSR: I can't believe the Democrats would do X! I will vote for Trump now!
Atlas Ds [no apostrophe]: Hmmm, I guess you weren't really sincere when you said X is bad...

Court packing to OSR is increasing the size of the court. He may like the political maneuvers pulled by the senate GOP but to him it is not increasing the size of the court and he sees court packing as much worse. He had a red line and Democrats are debating to cross it. Its their choice but they should tread carefully still.

[Kingpoleon]

If Trump nominates a Supreme Court justice now and the Senate approves it, I would tentatively support packing it. If he/Senate Republicans say “let the winner decide”, he loses, and then they rush someone through in the lame duck session? The Democrats absolutely should pack the court.

[KaiserDave]

If Trump nominates a Supreme Court justice now and the Senate approves it, I would tentatively support packing it. If he/Senate Republicans say “let the winner decide”, he loses, and then they rush someone through in the lame duck session? The Democrats absolutely should pack the court.

This is a reasonable answer

[7,052,770]

If this makes you switch to Trump, you were always going to.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Democrats: Do X
OSR: Ok I will vote for Trump
Atlas D's: You were always a secret TRUMP VOTER !!!!!!!!.

Wrong.

OSR: I won't vote for Trump unless Democrats do X
Republicans: Do X themselves (or, more accurately promise to do X)
Democrats: I mean, I guess we'll have no choice but to do X too if Republicans do X...
OSR: I can't believe the Democrats would do X! I will vote for Trump now!
Atlas Ds [no apostrophe]: Hmmm, I guess you weren't really sincere when you said X is bad...

Court packing to OSR is increasing the size of the court. He may like the political maneuvers pulled by the senate GOP but to him it is not increasing the size of the court and he sees court packing as much worse. He had a red line and Democrats are debating to cross it. Its their choice but they should tread carefully still.

The number of justices aren't what constitutes a pack. If a president just decided to add one liberal and one conservative judge at the same time without a vacancy, that wouldn't be a pack. Messing with the margin is what makes a pack.

If Obama had gotten to fill Scalia's seat and then Trump filled Ginsburg's, it comes out to 5 R, 4 D (R+1 margin).
If the McConnell Rule were enforced on both, it still ends up 5 R, 4 D assuming Biden wins (R+1 margin)

But if the hypocritical, insincere Republicans fill Ginsburg's seat after also getting to fill Scalia's thanks to a phony made up rule, it's 6 R, 3 D (R+3 margin). That's a pack. That's functionally identical to letting Obama and Trump fill the respective seats and then Republicans just adding 2 more to get to 7 R, 4 D (R+3 margin).

Again, the margin is what makes a pack, not the number of judges technically. If Barrett is confirmed before January, and Biden adds 2 justices, it's 6 R, 5 D (R+1 margin). That's canceling out the Republican pack, and not packing themselves.

If OSR is truly against packing and not just grandstanding, he will explicitly support Biden adding 2 justices to cancel out the Republican pack to get the margin back to R+1.

[AGA]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

Biden on court packing: “I would not get into court packing. We had three justices. Next time around, we lose control, they add three justices. We begin to lose any credibility the court has at all.”

Now, this was said during the primaries, long before the circumstances of today, but I still think Biden hasn't changed his position. His whole campaign is about returning to normalcy and uniting Americans. Whether you believe he will stay true to that message is up to you. Even if he wanted to do it, the Senate will most likely only have 50 Democratic senators if Biden wins. Do you really think Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema would do something that appears so blatantly partisan?

[GeneralMacArthur]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

Biden on court packing: “I would not get into court packing. We had three justices. Next time around, we lose control, they add three justices. We begin to lose any credibility the court has at all.”

Now, this was said during the primaries, long before the circumstances of today, but I still think Biden hasn't changed his position. His whole campaign is about returning to normalcy and uniting Americans. Whether you believe he will stay true to that message is up to you. Even if he wanted to do it, the Senate will most likely only have 50 Democratic senators if Biden wins. Do you really think Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema would do something that appears so blatantly partisan?

Well the Republicans also said that they firmly, truly, deeply believed that a president shouldn't appoint a supreme court justice in an election year.

The Republicans have gone back on their word and revealed that they were treacherous liars the entire time.  Why should the Democrats keep pretending that this is an arena where integrity is anything but a weakness?

[AGA]

For me this is a complete red line and I really Hope Joe Biden makes it clear he would veto such a bill because if he doesn’t make it clear he’d oppose court packing,  I’d drop my never trumpism even though I don’t want too cause I’m my opinion Court packing is worse for our democracy and institutions than Trump

Biden on court packing: “I would not get into court packing. We had three justices. Next time around, we lose control, they add three justices. We begin to lose any credibility the court has at all.”

Now, this was said during the primaries, long before the circumstances of today, but I still think Biden hasn't changed his position. His whole campaign is about returning to normalcy and uniting Americans. Whether you believe he will stay true to that message is up to you. Even if he wanted to do it, the Senate will most likely only have 50 Democratic senators if Biden wins. Do you really think Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema would do something that appears so blatantly partisan?

Well the Republicans also said that they firmly, truly, deeply believed that a president shouldn't appoint a supreme court justice in an election year.

The Republicans have gone back on their word and revealed that they were treacherous liars the entire time.  Why should the Democrats keep pretending that this is an arena where integrity is anything but a weakness?

Didn't McConnell say that the rule applied only if the presidency and the Senate were held by different parties?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Crt packing is gonna be hard to do unless Dems win 52 votes, they must win GA Senate races to advance the idea of Crt packing, in a tied Senate, or 51 vote Senate, Manchin isn't gonna repeal the filibuster. We shall see if it happens