Was 1975 the worst year for the US in the cold war?

[Bootes Void]

in 1975, the US pulled out of Vietnam because of the unpopularity of US involvement there. Then Vietnam fell into communism along with Cambodia and Laos. After Angola and Mozambique got independence from portugal, those countries fell into communism. Benin also fell into communism.The US also widely outspent by the soviets in defense and were losing ground on the economy. The US had weak morale because of the aftermath of the Vietnam War and Watergate. So was 1975 the lowpoint of the west and US in particular during the cold war?

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Yea, the 1945-1974 post war Keynesian consensus was dead. Stagflation and the Iran hostage crisis was ahead.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Post Vietnam the US army was a heroin-addled mess and probably couldn't have stopped a Soviet invasion in Europe if the war had turned hot.

[Storr]

Absolutely.

[Cassius]

Post Vietnam the US army was a heroin-addled mess and probably couldn't have stopped a Soviet invasion in Europe if the war had turned hot.

https://youtu.be/IKQlQlQ6_pk

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

The 1975-1979 period in general represented the collapse of a lot of US partners in the developing world and the resulting abandonment of detente that was to kick into full gear after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Some historians like to treat this period as the beginning of the "second" Cold War and we can note antecedents to Reagan's foreign policy in not just Carter but also Ford. Ironically, the mid-to-late seventies also marked the beginning of the worldwide democratization wave. (The two are not unrelated, either, as both have as a crucial feature the Carnation Revolution in Portugal) It's a fascinating time.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Post Vietnam the US army was a heroin-addled mess and probably couldn't have stopped a Soviet invasion in Europe if the war had turned hot.

https://youtu.be/IKQlQlQ6_pk

Holy f#ck.

[buritobr]

1974-1976: good times for the left

1974: Carnation Revolution, Portugal almost became communist
1974: Labour victory in the UK
1975: Fall of Saigon
1975: Independence of Angola, MPLA rose to the power
1975: Death of generalissimo Francisco Franco
1976: Italian Communist Party had 32%, the highest percentage of its history
1976: SPD-FDP coalition remained in the power in Germany

[Orser67]

It's not unreasonable to call the fall of Saigon the low point for the U.S. in the Cold War, but 1975 also saw the signing of the Helskinki Accords, arguably the high point of detente. And while the Vietnam War obviously didn't end well for the United States, many people were just glad that it was over. In terms of strategic set-backs, the Chinese civil war, and the Cuban and Iranian revolutions were arguably more significant, and in terms of morale and confidence in U.S. foreign policy, I'd argue that the period from 1979-1980 was probably the worst.

[OSR stands with Israel]

No 1979 and 1980 were worse

[Benjamin Frank]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

While it certainly seemed terrible at the time, it may have been to America's benefit to not have to prop up a thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate state that was attempting to be sovereign of all of China. Kennan was no fan of the KMT and distegarded China in his assessment of America's Asian defense strategy. Additionally, Americsn policymakers early on entertained the idea of peeling China away from the USSR in time.

To be fair, though, American anxiety in the late 70s may also have been substantially psychological, though I'd regard the loss of Iran as an immense setback on its own in several spheres.

[Benjamin Frank]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

While it certainly seemed terrible at the time, it may have been to America's benefit to not have to prop up a thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate state that was attempting to be sovereign of all of China. Kennan was no fan of the KMT and distegarded China in his assessment of America's Asian defense strategy. Additionally, Americsn policymakers early on entertained the idea of peeling China away from the USSR in time.

To be fair, though, American anxiety in the late 70s may also have been substantially psychological, though I'd regard the loss of Iran as an immense setback on its own in several spheres.

1.The North Korean invasion of China was a direct result of the Communists coming to power in China.


2.The Shah was as thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate as the KMT was.

[Samof94]

1962 seems like the obvious choice. Castro has missiles gotten from Russia and Cuba had only recently gone Communist.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

While it certainly seemed terrible at the time, it may have been to America's benefit to not have to prop up a thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate state that was attempting to be sovereign of all of China. Kennan was no fan of the KMT and distegarded China in his assessment of America's Asian defense strategy. Additionally, Americsn policymakers early on entertained the idea of peeling China away from the USSR in time.

To be fair, though, American anxiety in the late 70s may also have been substantially psychological, though I'd regard the loss of Iran as an immense setback on its own in several spheres.

1.The North Korean invasion of China was a direct result of the Communists coming to power in China.


2.The Shah was as thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate as the KMT was.

The Shah was a benevolent dictator, he wanted to be loved by his people. He was too soft to order a crackdown on the protestors, and needed reassurance from the President. Carter was a big champion of human rights, and refused to endorse a crackdown. If Regan had been won in 1976, he probably would have advised the Shah to crackdown violently.

[Benjamin Frank]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

While it certainly seemed terrible at the time, it may have been to America's benefit to not have to prop up a thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate state that was attempting to be sovereign of all of China. Kennan was no fan of the KMT and distegarded China in his assessment of America's Asian defense strategy. Additionally, Americsn policymakers early on entertained the idea of peeling China away from the USSR in time.

To be fair, though, American anxiety in the late 70s may also have been substantially psychological, though I'd regard the loss of Iran as an immense setback on its own in several spheres.

1.The North Korean invasion of China was a direct result of the Communists coming to power in China.


2.The Shah was as thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate as the KMT was.

The Shah was a benevolent dictator, he wanted to be loved by his people. He was too soft to order a crackdown on the protestors, and needed reassurance from the President. Carter was a big champion of human rights, and refused to endorse a crackdown. If Regan had been won in 1976, he probably would have advised the Shah to crackdown violently.

A benevolent dictator?  I believe that qualifies as an 'alternative fact.'

They may not have been the worst in the world, but SAVAK was a brutal secret police.  Imprisonment and torture of political opponents was routine.  The best you can say is that only a relatively small number of political prisoners were killed.

The Shah also had previously used violence against his own people to suppress riots in 1961.

The best that might be said about The Shah's 'benevolence' is that he wasn't as bad as the Ayatollah.

[Beet]

No, it was 1960 or 1961. The Cuban revolution had happened, but the Sino-Soviet split had not yet fully happened. At this time the Soviet Union's sphere of influence was at its maximum. Plus add to that the fact that Nasser had decided in 1957 to start shifting more towards the Soviet side, and he was leading the whole Ba'athist movement which was very influential across the Middle East at this time. Add to that the fact that the Soviets were ahead in the Space Race at this time.

[Meclazine for Israel]

I would argue the Cuban missile crisis or the South Korean Jet that was shot down by the Ruskies.

[Agonized-Statism]

The US was certainly in a bad place in the malaise days, but this perspective is a little Americentric. The socialist world was lacking clear leadership and direction after the Sino-Soviet Split. The supposed gains of the Domino Effect hadn't come to pass outside of Indochina. Yes, Europe was in turmoil, but no Soviet-aligned governments appeared beyond the Iron Curtain. The US successfully kept socialism down outside of Cuba in Latin America. I wouldn't exactly call it a good time for the USSR.

1962 seems like the obvious choice. Castro has missiles gotten from Russia and Cuba had only recently gone Communist.

Yeah, but Cuba didn't get to keep them at the end of the day.

[Samof94]

Of course. That ended in weeks.
The Shah was pretty cruel and had few redeeming qualities but wasn’t super religious in the way the current regime is.

[H. Ross Peron]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

While it certainly seemed terrible at the time, it may have been to America's benefit to not have to prop up a thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate state that was attempting to be sovereign of all of China. Kennan was no fan of the KMT and distegarded China in his assessment of America's Asian defense strategy. Additionally, Americsn policymakers early on entertained the idea of peeling China away from the USSR in time.

To be fair, though, American anxiety in the late 70s may also have been substantially psychological, though I'd regard the loss of Iran as an immense setback on its own in several spheres.

I don't see how KMT China was anymore "illegitimate" than the various other authoritarian noncommunist regimes the US propped up such as Syngman Rhee's South Korea. Chiang's relative success in running Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War suggests the KMT may have been reasonably competent at economic developmentalism in the postwar era though obviously Taiwan's unique conditions (ie its landowning class being Japanese or tied to them meaning that KMT need not respect them during land reform for the peasantry) may have helped arguably.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Surely 1949, when Mao Tse Tung took power in China, was worse.

While it certainly seemed terrible at the time, it may have been to America's benefit to not have to prop up a thoroughly corrupt and illegitimate state that was attempting to be sovereign of all of China. Kennan was no fan of the KMT and distegarded China in his assessment of America's Asian defense strategy. Additionally, Americsn policymakers early on entertained the idea of peeling China away from the USSR in time.

To be fair, though, American anxiety in the late 70s may also have been substantially psychological, though I'd regard the loss of Iran as an immense setback on its own in several spheres.

I don't see how KMT China was anymore "illegitimate" than the various other authoritarian noncommunist regimes the US propped up such as Syngman Rhee's South Korea. Chiang's relative success in running Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War suggests the KMT may have been reasonably competent at economic developmentalism in the postwar era though obviously Taiwan's unique conditions (ie its landowning class being Japanese or tied to them meaning that KMT need not respect them during land reform for the peasantry) may have helped arguably.

My position is more that having Chiang lead a country mired in civil war in yhe decades following 1949 is an albatross that bleeds American resources and lives. The calculation from Washington was that saving Chiang (who managed to alienate both Stalin and DC) would have involvrd a costly American deployment to the mainland.

[Red Velvet]

1974-1976: good times for the left

1974: Carnation Revolution, Portugal almost became communist
1974: Labour victory in the UK
1975: Fall of Saigon
1975: Independence of Angola, MPLA rose to the power
1975: Death of generalissimo Francisco Franco
1976: Italian Communist Party had 32%, the highest percentage of its history
1976: SPD-FDP coalition remained in the power in Germany

Good stuff, when the global left is doing good, US is struggling.

[(no subject)]

The US is insisting they be "compensated" for nationalised American property in both Cuba and Iran should those two nations undergo regime change.

Yankees still don't get it, do they?