Jerry Falwell Sr. vs. Jerry Falwell Jr.

[darklordoftech]

?

[Left Wing]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

[brucejoel99]

Compared to his dad, Jr.'s just a piece of sh*t. Sr., on the other hand, was one evil prick.

[Alcibiades]

Jr. is a fool who engaged in some hypocrisy. Sr. was more of the evil mastermind type, engineering a highly effective, but incredibly detrimental, political movement, so he’s worse. Also, his 9/11 comments; imagine if a liberal had said America deserved the attacks!

[Alben Barkley]

Not even a contest.

Jr. just seems like a dull moron to me. Just from watching clips of him speak, it's beyond obvious he never would have risen to any position of leadership if it wasn't for his name. The man is f--king boring. He has none of his father's charisma, passion, or intensity. That means that he's relatively harmless, despite being a cuck and a hypocrite (which is pretty much just standard for Republicans and Evangelicals these days). In fact, under his watch, fundamentalism is on a steep decline from where it peaked under his father, who played an active and key role in making it so powerful and influential in the first place.

[Suburbia]

Falwell Sr.

[DC Al Fine]

Senior. Junior is a walking argument against Baptist polity.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Not even a contest.

Jr. just seems like a dull moron to me. Just from watching clips of him speak, it's beyond obvious he never would have risen to any position of leadership if it wasn't for his name. The man is f--king boring. He has none of his father's charisma, passion, or intensity. That means that he's relatively harmless, despite being a cuck and a hypocrite (which is pretty much just standard for Republicans and Evangelicals these days). In fact, under his watch, fundamentalism is on a steep decline from where it peaked under his father, who played an active and key role in making it so powerful and influential in the first place.

Fundamentalism is not a powerful force in America, unless you count the Southern Baptists as fundamentalists.

[DINGO Joe]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

[Suburbia]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

People are segregationist at heart.

Asians don't associate with other people.

South Asians don't associate with other people.

[Ferguson97]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

People are segregationist at heart. It's not a big issue.

What are you talking about

[Suburbia]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

People are segregationist at heart. It's not a big issue.

What are you talking about

People associate with their own kind. This is not rocket science.

Falwell is no different than Malcolm X. Malcolm X wanted Black people and white people separated.

They were vocal people who favored their own kind.

[Battista Minola 1616]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

People are segregationist at heart. It's not a big issue.

What are you talking about

Arguing with bronz on any thing that includes the word "segregation" or variations thereof is always a bad idea.

[darklordoftech]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

People are segregationist at heart. It's not a big issue.

What are you talking about

People associate with their own kind. This is not rocket science.

Falwell is no different than Malcolm X. Malcolm X wanted Black people and white people separated.

They were vocal people who favored their own kind.

You make the assumption that Ferguson97 would defend Malcolm X.

[Suburbia]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

People are segregationist at heart. It's not a big issue.

What are you talking about

Arguing with bronz on any thing that includes the word "segregation" or variations thereof is always a bad idea.

Falwell did not implement segregation, he was a proponent of it. It was the South, 1960s.

That was the time.

People are tribalist at heart.

[Blair]

WI: Larry Flynt

[darklordoftech]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

Sr. founded the Religious Right because he was angry about civil rights. Until 1979, he didn’t care about abortion, considering it “a Catholic issue”. He embraced the anti-abortion cause in order to sell the “appoint conservative justices to the SCOTUS” message to people who wouldn’t knowingly support segregation.

[Left Wing]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc...

Exactly. My uncle died in 9/11 so I have an extreme personal hate of Falwell

[Alcibiades]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

Sr. founded the Religious Right because he was angry about civil rights. Until 1979, he didn’t care about abortion, considering it “a Catholic issue”. He embraced the anti-abortion cause in order to sell the “appoint conservative justices to the SCOTUS” message to people who wouldn’t knowingly support segregation.

I am tempted to say it would have been much better had it remained "a Catholic issue" - but I doubt it ever was such to begin with.

Of course Falwell was a grifter on the "Christian academies" thing in any case.

Actually it largely was, to the extent that it was even an issue at all. For all the talk of the RR being a mass movement, Falwell pretty much single-handedly turned abortion into a major issue after his wedge issue of school segregation failed. (Also, he apparently considered picking anti-Catholicism as his issue, but decided that this wouldn’t get much traction in 1970s America.)

[Battista Minola 1616]

Sr. founded the Religious Right because he was angry about civil rights. Until 1979, he didn’t care about abortion, considering it “a Catholic issue”. He embraced the anti-abortion cause in order to sell the “appoint conservative justices to the SCOTUS” message to people who wouldn’t knowingly support segregation.

I am tempted to say it would have been much better had it remained "a Catholic issue" - but I doubt it ever was such to begin with.

Of course Falwell was a grifter on the "Christian academies" thing in any case.

Actually it largely was, to the extent that it was even an issue at all. For all the talk of the RR being a mass movement, Falwell pretty much single-handedly turned abortion into a major issue after his wedge issue of school segregation failed. (Also, he apparently considered picking anti-Catholicism as his issue, but decided that this wouldn’t get much traction in 1970s America.)

Ouch.

Any type of prejudice and discrimination was his thing, huh?

[DC Al Fine]

Ehh, Falwell and the Moral Majority were pretty late to the game as far as making abortion the issue for Evangelicals compared to figures like Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop. Of course Schaeffer and Koop aren't bete noires for the 21st century left so we get threads like this *shrug*

[darklordoftech]

Jerry Falwell Sr. is one of the biggest villains of the 20th century

Well, Sr was an arch segregationist and claimed that the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the gays and abortionists, etc... and helped create Jr

Jr is a pervy grifter

As a tandem they do a good job representing the Republican party.

Sr. founded the Religious Right because he was angry about civil rights. Until 1979, he didn’t care about abortion, considering it “a Catholic issue”. He embraced the anti-abortion cause in order to sell the “appoint conservative justices to the SCOTUS” message to people who wouldn’t knowingly support segregation.

I am tempted to say it would have been much better had it remained "a Catholic issue" - but I doubt it ever was such to begin with.

Of course Falwell was a grifter on the "Christian academies" thing in any case.

Actually it largely was, to the extent that it was even an issue at all. For all the talk of the RR being a mass movement, Falwell pretty much single-handedly turned abortion into a major issue after his wedge issue of school segregation failed. (Also, he apparently considered picking anti-Catholicism as his issue, but decided that this wouldn’t get much traction in 1970s America.)

He probably realized that if he picked anti-Catholicism as his issue, Catholics would fight against him, but if he picked abortion as his issue, Catholics would support him while Evangelicals wouldn’t be alienated.

Ehh, Falwell and the Moral Majority were pretty late to the game as far as making abortion the issue for Evangelicals compared to figures like Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop. Of course Schaeffer and Koop aren't bete noires for the 21st century left so we get threads like this *shrug*

When Koop was Surgeon General, he and the Religious Right fell out with each other. Koop said to use condoms to prevent AIDS and that abortion isn’t as traumatic as Falwell claimed.

[Battista Minola 1616]

Ehh, Falwell and the Moral Majority were pretty late to the game as far as making abortion the issue for Evangelicals compared to figures like Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop. Of course Schaeffer and Koop aren't bete noires for the 21st century left so we get threads like this *shrug*

I mean, they were not involved in defending segregation academies.

[DINGO Joe]

I feel bad for Lynchburg.  They've got "lynch" in the name of the town.  They been associated with eugenics (Dr Priddy and the Lynchburg State Colony for Epileptics and the Feebleminded) and, of course, both Falwells.  How unpleasant.

[DC Al Fine]

Ehh, Falwell and the Moral Majority were pretty late to the game as far as making abortion the issue for Evangelicals compared to figures like Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop. Of course Schaeffer and Koop aren't bete noires for the 21st century left so we get threads like this *shrug*

I mean, they were not involved in defending segregation academies.

Sure.

My complaint with that thread was primarily with the shoddy history on the pro-life movement. There's a common argument on Atlas that goes something like "Evangelicals were pro-choice until Falwell and the Moral Majority used it as a wedge issue to protect their segregation academies*" which is totally ludicrous, not least because it gets the chronology of Falwell vs Schaeffer and Koop all wrong.

The "anti-abortion was just a cover for southern segregation academies" trope is a lot less convincing if the big figures getting the organized Evangelical pro-life movement off the ground were a couple of northern Evangelical Presbyterians instead of Southern Baptists. Hence, my grumpiness about assertions that Falwell singlehandedly got Evangelicals upset about abortion, when he was a somewhat later figure on the pro-life movement


*I would be remis if I didn't point put that the reasons for setting up private Christian schools in the United States in that era was very messy insofar as concerns about integration were there alongside concerns about public school prayer and Bible reading being proscribed in that era. My initial impression was that Falwell was more on the segregationist end of the spectrum, but apparently the segregation academy associated with his church integrated well before the courts forced private schools to integrate and the foundation of the Moral Majority. Make of that what you will.