WA: Most Unforgiving Towards Gov. Gregoire

[Frodo]

If one were to take these poll results at face value, you can't help but wonder if there is going to be a Republican landslide in Washington state in 2008 at all levels of state government.  It just seems as if there is absolutely nothing Gov. Gregoire can do to win support no matter how well she governs:

1. Do you approve or disapprove of Governor Christine Gregoire's job performance?

Approve 39%
Disapprove 52%
Undecided 9%

2. Do you approve or disapprove of the State Legislature's job performance?

Approve 42%
Disapprove 47%
Undecided 11%

8. If the Election for Governor in 2008 was between the Democrat Christine Gregoire and the Republican, Dino Rossi, whom would you vote for?

Dino Rossi 51%
Christine Gregoire 38%
Undecided 11%

10. Are you confident that Washington has overcome the problems that hindered the 2004 Election and that there will be no problems with the 2006 Election?

Yes 18%
No 66%
Undecided 16%

12. Do you think Washington is headed in the right direction or the wrong direction?

Right 28%
Wrong 58%
Undecided 14%
 

[bgwah]

Strategic Vision usually shows Republicans doing better than they actually do.

And honestly, any incumbent Democrat running for statewide office in 2008 should have an easy time getting re-elected, barring Gregoire of course.

The Republicans have done a good job tricking the people of Washington. Tricking them into thinking that King County election officials actually cheated. Of course, anyone who thinks that King County cheated but are more than willing to ignore a dozen other counties with similar "vote increases" is an idiot.

I'm not worrying about Strategic Vision's "polling," the Democrats will gain in the state legislature in November.

[Frodo]

So it is pretty much inevitable at this point that Republicans will take over the Governor's Mansion in Washington in 2008 (and perhaps Oregon as well by 2010, if Kulongoski squeeks through with a narrow and legally contested win this November).

[bgwah]

^ Assuming Dino Rossi runs, he would probably win. But hey, there's nearly three years left until the next election. Gregoire's reputation could improve and people could stop caring about Rossi.

If Rossi decided not to run, Gregoire would probably win.

[Democratic Hawk]

I thought I say a poll showing Gregoire well on the up recently

Dave

[Alcon]

2. Do you approve or disapprove of the State Legislature's job performance?

Approve 42%
Disapprove 47%
Undecided 11%

The state legislature deserves better than this.  The Democrats did an amazing job this session, and if people paid attention, the GOP would be screwed.  Not much else to say there.

[Gabu]

If one were to take these poll results at face value, you can't help but wonder if there is going to be a Republican landslide in Washington state in 2008 at all levels of state government.  It just seems as if there is absolutely nothing Gov. Gregoire can do to win support no matter how well she governs:

Call me when it's 2008.  You can't predict anything about elections in 2006 right now; consequently, I'm not even going to attempt to touch the 2008 elections.

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

If one were to take these poll results at face value, you can't help but wonder if there is going to be a Republican landslide in Washington state in 2008 at all levels of state government.  It just seems as if there is absolutely nothing Gov. Gregoire can do to win support no matter how well she governs:

Call me when it's 2008.  You can't predict anything about elections in 2006 right now; consequently, I'm not even going to attempt to touch the 2008 elections.

You may not want to touch it (the 2008 WA elections), but I will; Dino wins back what was stolen from him in '04.

[bgwah]

If one were to take these poll results at face value, you can't help but wonder if there is going to be a Republican landslide in Washington state in 2008 at all levels of state government.  It just seems as if there is absolutely nothing Gov. Gregoire can do to win support no matter how well she governs:

Call me when it's 2008.  You can't predict anything about elections in 2006 right now; consequently, I'm not even going to attempt to touch the 2008 elections.

You may not want to touch it (the 2008 WA elections), but I will; Dino wins back what was stolen from him in '04.

How was the election stolen? DEAN LOGAN?!

[Cubby]

If one were to take these poll results at face value, you can't help but wonder if there is going to be a Republican landslide in Washington state in 2008 at all levels of state government.  It just seems as if there is absolutely nothing Gov. Gregoire can do to win support no matter how well she governs:

Call me when it's 2008.  You can't predict anything about elections in 2006 right now; consequently, I'm not even going to attempt to touch the 2008 elections.

You may not want to touch it (the 2008 WA elections), but I will; Dino wins back what was stolen from him in '04.

After 6 years of calling Democrats sore losers for complaining about Gore's loss in 2000 (your party not you) please don't do the same with the WA Governor's race.

And I could have sworn I saw a poll within the last 6 months which showed Gregoire with a well over 50% approval rating, so either this poll is way off or something big happened out there.

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

If one were to take these poll results at face value, you can't help but wonder if there is going to be a Republican landslide in Washington state in 2008 at all levels of state government.  It just seems as if there is absolutely nothing Gov. Gregoire can do to win support no matter how well she governs:

Call me when it's 2008.  You can't predict anything about elections in 2006 right now; consequently, I'm not even going to attempt to touch the 2008 elections.

You may not want to touch it (the 2008 WA elections), but I will; Dino wins back what was stolen from him in '04.

After 6 years of calling Democrats sore losers for complaining about Gore's loss in 2000 (your party not you) please don't do the same with the WA Governor's race.

And I could have sworn I saw a poll within the last 6 months which showed Gregoire with a well over 50% approval rating, so either this poll is way off or something big happened out there.

When you lose TWO out of THREE counts, I am sorry, you are probably the loser.  It was a selective recount, and the court battle more than proved the mass fraud committed in Washington.  I dislike soar losers from BOTH  PARTIES, but when the voters are blatantly cheated such as what happened in Washington, I will not let it go.

And their was a SurveyUSA poll that put her over 50%, but all other (more reliable polls) put her in the low 40's. 

[Alcon]

Reagan Raider, are you aware that both parties agreed on the final recount?

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

Reagan Raider, are you aware that both parties agreed on the final recount?

I could really care less, but if by dropping the court case because of the partisan make-up of the State Supreme Court you mean they "agreed," I do not believe Dino conceded she was rightfully elected.

He stated the case would be dropped because of the partisan court. 

Sad but true.

[Alcon]

Reagan Raider, are you aware that both parties agreed on the final recount?

I could really care less, but if by dropping the court case because of the partisan make-up of the State Supreme Court you mean they "agreed," I do not believe Dino conceded she was rightfully elected.

He stated the case would be dropped because of the partisan court. 

Sad but true.

I'm sorry, but the judge who ruled in the case was known for being a fair, non-partisan man.  Additionally, even Sam Reed said that the final count was the most accurate.  I would really love to give the Republicans the benefit of the doubt, because I really, really dislike Gregoire, and they certainly did screw up, but the final count was the count which should have been used.  The Democrats followed procedure - they had the right to do everything they did, and the state law was made for the situation.  If you want to blame them from benefiting from state law, well, OK, but I don't see how that is a negative thing.

As for their agreeing to the third count, what in the world does that have to do with the state Supreme Court?

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

Reagan Raider, are you aware that both parties agreed on the final recount?

I could really care less, but if by dropping the court case because of the partisan make-up of the State Supreme Court you mean they "agreed," I do not believe Dino conceded she was rightfully elected.

He stated the case would be dropped because of the partisan court. 

Sad but true.

I'm sorry, but the judge who ruled in the case was known for being a fair, non-partisan man.  Additionally, even Sam Reed said that the final count was the most accurate.  I would really love to give the Republicans the benefit of the doubt, because I really, really dislike Gregoire, and they certainly did screw up, but the final count was the count which should have been used.

As for their agreeing to the third count, what in the world does that have to do with the state Supreme Ccourt?

I am surprised that you obviously did not follow the legal battle, or Dino's own comments on the whole affair. 

I am not a PS 101 teacher, but if you wish, you can find the information easily.  To make it even easier you can read it from wikipedia at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_gubernatorial_election%2C_2004 

People who did study the whole affair (as reported in the media) would know what I am talking about.

Either way, I refuse to go in a circle repeating the same thing (which often happens in this forum), but my stance on the "Washington Screwjob of '04" remains the same.

[Alcon]

I am surprised that you obviously did not follow the legal battle, or Dino's own comments on the whole affair. 

I am not a PS 101 teacher, but if you wish, you can find the information easily.  To make it even easier you can read it from wikipedia at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_gubernatorial_election%2C_2004 

People who did study the whole affair (as reported in the media) would know what I am talking about.

Either way, I refuse to go in a circle repeating the same thing (which often happens in this forum), but my stance on the "Washington Screwjob of '04" remains the same.

"PS 101"?  What?

I have read that Wikipedia article often.  It is good to see that the (unadvisable) practise of using Wikipedia as a source is alive and well.

What part of what I have said contradicts the Wikipedia entry?

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

I am surprised that you obviously did not follow the legal battle, or Dino's own comments on the whole affair. 

I am not a PS 101 teacher, but if you wish, you can find the information easily.  To make it even easier you can read it from wikipedia at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_gubernatorial_election%2C_2004 

People who did study the whole affair (as reported in the media) would know what I am talking about.

Either way, I refuse to go in a circle repeating the same thing (which often happens in this forum), but my stance on the "Washington Screwjob of '04" remains the same.

"PS 101"?  What?

I have read that Wikipedia article often.  It is good to see that the (unadvisable) practise of using Wikipedia as a source is alive and well.

What part of what I have said contradicts the Wikipedia entry?

We do need to watch out for those "practises."  I usually do not mock people's spelling, but when they attempt to be elitist I cannot help but find the irony in their use of the English language.

Also, if you read the article, or have followed the election, you would know that Dino (the party directly involved) never agree to the third count, or accepted the legitimacy of your disgraceful Governor.

Either way, I am not going to nursemaid the thread any further.  I made my point, and if people don't like it; too bad.     

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

We do need to watch out for those "practises."  I usually do not mock people's spelling, but when they attempt to be elitist I cannot help but find the irony in their use of the English language.

I use Canadian spelling habitually, which includes that spelling of the American "practice."

Also, if you read the article, or have followed the election, you would know that Dino (the party directly involved) never agree to the third count, or accepted the legitimacy of your disgraceful Governor.

I claimed he did?  The Republican Party never objected to the third count because it is in state law.  I do not see why the Republican Party's opinion on the third count should matter, though; it is state law.  Now, tell me - why do you believe the third count to be tarnished?

Either way, I am not going to nursemaid the thread any further.  I made my point, and if people don't like it; too bad.

Why is it that you leave a discussion whenever anyone challenges your point of view?  That is kind of the point of a forum.  You are a smart guy, and your responses are interesting.  I do not see why you feel the need to digress so quickly.

1. I pointed out in my first post in this round of discussion that I believed the court case documented voter fraud, and I did not care what the party bosses and Same Reed thought.  Rather, I supported Dino Rossi's argument and reasoning.

2. I often do not leave discussions, but recently, I have found the habitual circling of discussion to be dull, and largely a waste of my time.  Response after response is largely the same thing, so why waste my time?  If a discussion evolves and warrants further dialogue; I will keep in.  If the discussion goes on repeating itself, I see no point in continuing.

That’s where I stand.

[Alcon]

1. There was voter fraud.  Voter fraud is inevitable, especially in counties with transient populations.  I cannot say whether it was enough to change things, which is what is actually relevant.  King County screwed up big time; so did a range of other counties, where even more incorrectly sorted ballots were found. 

Why do you support Rossi's argument, but not Reed's?  Which piece of evidence do you agree with Rossi that Reed disagrees with?  You can answer these quickly; there is not much involvement there.

I think the Republicans personally failed to show that Rossi clearly won all cast.  They may have found felons and improperly registered voters, but they only would be enough if they had broken something like 2-to-1 for Gregoire.  I find that unlikely, and they failed to prove it true.

2. All right.  That is understandable.

By the way, I do not expect you to apologise for falsely correcting my spelling, but in the future you should keep in mind that correcting spelling and grammar is fundamentally considered poor discussion etiquette.  I do not mean to come across as an elitist.  You have so far come across as such to me, as well; I think this is inevitable in any strong disagreement.  I have no reason to believe that you are actually an elitist.  You seem like a nice guy.  I just think that is a side effect of debating.

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

1. There was voter fraud.  Voter fraud is inevitable, especially in counties with transient populations.  I cannot say whether it was enough to change things, which is what is actually relevant.  King County screwed up big time; so did a range of other counties, where even more incorrectly sorted ballots were found. 

Why do you support Rossi's argument, but not Reed's?  Which piece of evidence do you agree with Rossi that Reed disagrees with?  You can answer these quickly; there is not much involvement there.

I think the Republicans personally failed to show that Rossi clearly won all cast.  They may have found felons and improperly registered voters, but they only would be enough if they had broken something like 2-to-1 for Gregoire.  I find that unlikely, and they failed to prove it true.

2. All right.  That is understandable.

By the way, I do not expect you to apologise for falsely correcting my spelling, but in the future you should keep in mind that correcting spelling and grammar is fundamentally considered poor discussion etiquette.  I do not mean to come across as an elitist.  You have so far come across as such to me, as well; I think this is inevitable in any strong disagreement.  I have no reason to believe that you are actually an elitist.  You seem like a nice guy.  I just think that is a side effect of debating.

1. From following the court case, I was swayed by Rossi's arguments, evidence, etc. (I am not particularly interested in digging up sources, it is a matter of public record, and you have easier access as a Washingtonian to the material than I as an Oregonian do.)

I also think Sam Reed (as a politician) has to watch his own hide, and as the Chief Elections Officer of you state, needed to partially play a game of C.Y.A. (Cover Your a..)

That's just how I see the issue, and as a person who lives in a state with a Vote by Mail system that is easily susceptible to fraud, I have a deep interest in this subject.  Also, as an American, I hate to see what I see as an injustice be done to the voters.

2. Online forums are notorious for the lack of understanding readers and responders have of the intent or emphasis of people's comments.  This often makes people read into things that are not there. 

I also think that sometimes people get too worked up about these things, and it gets too personal.  All of us as posters on a political forum ought to do our part to avoid that.  We can disagree (as we obviously do), and not take it to heart as any sort of personal attack.

I figure we are all are smart enough to understand ideological, philosophical, and political disagreement (as heated as it may be) does not translate to personal dislike or attack.

If we live in a world where Tom DeLay says that he loves Barney Frank as a fellow human being, I think all of us here can get along too.

[Alcon]

1. I am well-aware of Rossi's arguments, but I cannot respond to them unless you identify which certain ones swayed you.  He quite literally threw every possible argument, ranging from absurd to quite valid, in the Chelan case.  I cannot respond to Dino Rossi, after all; I can only respond to you.

Sam Reed may be playing a game of "Cover Your Ass", but he's been well-respected and shown an incredible level of integrity in every situation in the past.  I certainly hold higher his face-value opinion more than that of the candidate (either candidate), the person(s) to whom manipulating the information to his (and her) own ends would be much more ass-coveringly beneficial.

I do not really have access to information any more than you do.  We are both using the same Internet.

2. I agree, which is why I think that your flagrant anti-Canadian racism must end now, you soccer-bastardising paper money-lover.

[Mr. Paleoconservative]

1. I am well-aware of Rossi's arguments, but I cannot respond to them unless you identify which certain ones swayed you.  I cannot respond to Dino Rossi, after all; I can only respond to you.

Sam Reed may be playing a game of "Cover Your Ass", but he's been well-respected and shown an incredible level of integrity in every situation in the past.  I certainly value his face-value opinion more than the candidate, the person to whom manipulating the information to his own ends would be much more ass-coveringy.

I do not really have access to information any more than you do.  We are both using the same Internet.

2. I agree, which is why I think that your flagrant anti-Canadian racism must end now.

I have the highest respect and admiration for our friends to the North.  Beyond our many cultural and economic similarities, I think the Canadian electorate also showed great judgment in their recent national elections.

[Alcon]

1. I am well-aware of Rossi's arguments, but I cannot respond to them unless you identify which certain ones swayed you.  I cannot respond to Dino Rossi, after all; I can only respond to you.

Sam Reed may be playing a game of "Cover Your Ass", but he's been well-respected and shown an incredible level of integrity in every situation in the past.  I certainly value his face-value opinion more than the candidate, the person to whom manipulating the information to his own ends would be much more ass-coveringy.

I do not really have access to information any more than you do.  We are both using the same Internet.

2. I agree, which is why I think that your flagrant anti-Canadian racism must end now.

I have the highest respect and admiration for our friends to the North.  Beyond our many cultural and economic similarities, I think the Canadian electorate also showed great judgment in their recent national elections.

Well, that we can certainly agree on.

(I was kidding, by the way - just to make that clear - although coin money is pretty cool.)

[bgwah]

We do need to watch out for those "practises."  I usually do not mock people's spelling, but when they attempt to be elitist I cannot help but find the irony in their use of the English language.

I also think Sam Reed (as a politician) has to watch his own hide, and as the Chief Elections Officer of you state, needed to partially play a game of C.Y.A. (Cover You’re a..)

[minionofmidas]

1. There was voter fraud.  Voter fraud is inevitable, especially in counties with transient populations.

It is easily avoidable, but only at the price of getting rid of nonsense like ... election day registration ... non-compulsory registration ... laws denying citizens the vote on account of felonies (or anything else not immediately verifiable)...