Trump commutes Roger Stone sentence

[Fuzzy Bear]

Pardons need not be revisited.  The possibility of a Pardon is the ONLY hope for those imprisoned or facing execution who are actually innocent.  Actual innocence is not a ground for appeal, and it is often not used to grant a new trial if the defendant entered a "best interest" plea to, say, avoid the Death Penalty, settle for 25 years rather than 70 years, etc.

I'm fine with commutation of this sentence.  Stone deserves a new trial due to bias issues with the jury foreperson, but one isn't forthcoming due to the bias of an activist Obama appointee.  We can't all be Maximum John Sirica, a conservative Republican who stuck it to Watergate defendants, now can we?

[Fuzzy Bear]

*snip*

I'm fine with commutation of this sentence.  Stone deserves a new trial due to bias issues with the jury foreperson, but one isn't forthcoming due to the bias of an activist Obama appointee. *snip*

With all due respect, the quoted part of your post is "1+1= Eleventy-Twix" level absurd.  I mean, it simply has no objective basis in reality.  I'm sorry, but there is no way that any reasonable person could honestly believe the quoted part of your post unless they had been so blinded by partisanship that they were no longer capable of reacting to current events with any semblance of objectivity.  

The rule of law matters more than partisan loyalty, no matter who is in charge.  I know there was a time when you still knew this on some level because you opposed Kavanaugh's confirmation and I don't know what happened, but I really hope you put down the kool-aid because it has been really sad to watch.

You ask what's happened to me.

There are three (3) types of Atlas Left.  One is the deranged sort; runeghost, is the classic example, but there are others in his league.  (AtorBoltox comes to mind.)  They are unreachable, and they are the sort of people that give me the creeps in real life.  (Chancellor Gowron falls into this group; his hatred of Trump goes way beyond politics.)

The second (and larger type) are the Broken Record Technique Left.  Badger.  Harry.  Joe Republic.  Frodo (who has lied about me on this forum and refuses to acknowledge it).  Dr. Scholl.  The whole lot of Hyena Packers.  They repeat lies over and over again to where they become axioms.  You know this; you've SEEN this.  Between this group, and the group above, I don't expect anything more.

Then we come to the group that has actually disappointed me. It's the group of reasonable liberals who don't reflexively hate America who are needed to be the last bastion of common sense in America today that aren't showing up for that role because they can't get past their personal hatred for Trump.  

You talk about the rule of law.  Since late May, there have been Massive Riots in our cities.  Not "mostly peaceful protests", but Massive Disturbances that include rioting, looting, false imprisonment of citizens, attempted home invasions (the McCloskeys of St. Louis) in which a prosecutor threatens the victims for exhibiting their weapons in self-defense in the face of an angry mob when police presence was not forthcoming), vandalism of public property on a massive scale, and destruction of statues which manifests the worst sort of iconoclastic behavior that is never a good omen for society, and the destruction of private homes and businesses for no reason.  Oh, and the forced takeover of police precincts in several cities, together with unparalelled attacks on police attempting to keep order, the charging with murder of a police officer who shot a fleeing arrestee who turned around and fired the officer's taser at him, an act that the prosecutor, himself, is previously on record as saying was legal under Georgia Law.  This is what I've watched on TV.

The response to this mob (led by BLM and Antifa in an organized effort) by elected officials has been to order Law Enforcement to stand down and not actively protect the property of people, as if private property isn't a Constitutional Right.  The response of Corporate America is to actually finance the Mob, as well as giving it all the moral support it needs.  The response to the Mob by elected officials has been to defend their right to protest without social distancing, in disregard of prohibitions on public gatherings.  It's not a false statement to say that you can march with BLM and Antifa, but you can't go to church in many places.  You tell me how that's right.

The end result is that there is no way to be Pro-Biden and Anti-Mob.  Biden has not condemned the  mob; he has waffled, and has embraced BLM and denied the rioting to where it is presently not possible to be pro-Biden and anti-Mob.  Apparently, Biden has been told by his handlers that he needs the "enthusiasm" of blacks and the Sanders crowd to win, and he's trying to not jeopardize it.  And he's not alone.  THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE HERSELF couldn't bring herself to condemn the toppling of statues as law-breaking.  "People will do what they do." says Pelosi on the lawlessness.  It's OK because SHE doesn't really care about statues.  Is that her attitude toward private homes and businesses that have been trashed by BLM/Antifa rioting?  Those aren't statues; they represent the safety and sustenance of individuals and their families.  Is "People do what they do." what we tell private citizens whose lives have been broken by the mob?  Rayshard Brooks resisted a lawful arrest, took an officer's weapon, and he's lionized in death.  David Dorn is killed by the mob and he's not even a footnote; his life didn't matter to Al Sharpton.  (Indeed, only black lives that serve the narrative matter to BLM.)

You have been silent on the issue of lawlessness in the streets.  Is silence consent?  If so, you have consented in the riots.  If silence is not consent; if it represents time for contemplation, then what have you contemplated?  Have you contemplated the pain of Americans whose lives, homes, and property have been destroyed by rioters for no reason?  Have you contemplated the mental trauma inflicted by Mobs on individuals who have been falsely imprisoned, not allowed to leave unless they renounced their privilege or uttered some proper phrase?  (Not to mention people who were just flat-out physically battered by Mobs?  The entire Justice System moved immediately for George Floyd (rightly) and Rayshard Brooks (somewhat questionably), but it hasn't moved at all for thousands who have directly suffered at the hands of rioters and it has actually turned against the McCloskeys, who sought to protect their home against an angry mob of 100 who broke down an iron gate and invated their property, threatening to kill them and kill their dog.

If you're for the rule of law, start opposing the Mob at every turn on this forum.  This forum is full of people who provide apologia for today's BLM/Antifa Mob Violence.  Stand up to them.  Take the posture that (A) the violence is wrong, (B) it needs to stop now, (C) tranquility is a requirement for any kind of discussion on any of the issues they raised, and (D) you support Law Enforcement in doing what is necessary to restore order in ALL cities.  And you could also state that whatever restrictions on activity that apply to churchgoers ought to apply to "peaceful protesters" as well.  If I must go to Sunday School on Zoom, they can "have their voices heard" on Zoom as well.  It's not as powerful on Zoom?  Neither is church.

The tough part of standing for Equality and Equality under the Law is doing so when it hurts your preferred candidate.  There are two (2) sides to the Roger Stone issue, but it's optics.  You'll forgive me, however, if I find Roger Stone and Donald Trump to be more sympathetic to MY rights and MY liberties.  That doesn't justify them, or anyone else, being dismissive of other people's rights and liberties, but just WHO is on the side of those whose rights BLM and Antifa have violated?

If you want to convince me that it's possible to be Pro-Biden and anti-Mob, be the change.  Condemn the Mob, condemn it unequivocally, and do it here, where people will not understand, but be forced to listen.  Condemn it without reference to "both sides".  Mob rule hasn't been OK when it came to Cliven Bundy; why is it OK when it comes to BLM and Antifa?  Stand!  I'll have your back, and you may convince me that the Democratic Party isn't hijacked beyond repair.  Because right now, having voted almost straight Democratic (I voted for my Safe R Congressman in a parochial vote.) last time out, I have trouble imagining myself voting for any Democrat ever again.  I'm not drinking Kool-Aid.  But the Democratic Party isn't sending me the message that they "care more about people like yourself" by its actions.  

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citzen".

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citizen".

No you just go crying to the mod forum everyday about any criticism you receive

Only the criticism that crosses over into ad hominem attacks and libel, both of which are a violation of the ToS.

That you can't attack me without violating the ToS is a testimony to your lack of arguing skills.

I don't report people for criticizing me.  I do report people for personally attacking me and libeling me, as you have.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Of course the trial was tainted:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/roger-stone-juror-justice-department-anti-trump-social-media

If a black defendant was tried in Montgomery, AL, for similar behavior on the Obama campaign, and the Jury Foreman (a former GOP political candidate) made similarly charged social media posts against Obama and failed to disclose this during voir dire, there would be a hue and cry over the fairness of the verdict.  That hue and cry would not be eased if, say, the Judge who upheld it was, say, an associate of Jeff Sessions and a Republican appointee.  Fairness would be an issue, and rightfully so.

I'm willing to think twice on commuting Stone's sentence, but not on the unfairness of his jury.  It is hard for me to see how this juror didn't perjure herself during voir dire, outside of incompetance of counsel.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Mitt Romney put his 2 cents in yesterday:

“Unprecedented, historic corruption: an American president commutes the sentence of a person convicted by a jury of lying to shield that very president,” Romney tweeted.

Here's what Mitt Romney said in supporting Scooter Libby's commutaiton:

Defending Bush, Romney said at a campaign stop that "the president looked very carefully at the setting" before deciding to commute the 2 1/2-year sentence of Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, who was convicted in the CIA leak case.

The prosecutor in the case "went after somebody even when he knew no crime had been committed," Romney said. "Given that fact, isn't it reasonable for a commutation of a portion of the sentence to be made?"

Now I'll let the reader decide this issue.  But, please, don't tell me how Mitt Romney is this "courageous man of principle" or anything to that effect.  He accepted almost the exact same arguments on behalf of Scooter Libby (when he had reasonable hopes of becoming President) that he turns a deaf ear to in the present, and it begs the question as to why.

If Mitt Romney truly had the "dirt" on Donald Trump; if he had information on Trump during 2016 that would have been kind of Smoking Gun that created a consensus that Nixon needed to go, then Romney should have done so then.  Mitt called Trump lots of names, but offered no specifics, and this was compounded by the fact that Mitt conspicuously accepted Trump's endorsement in 2012.  The photo of Mitt and Trump going on to a TRUMP jet was used in ad after ad.  Unprecedented corruption?  What about the Bush 41 pardon of Cap Weinberger?  Russiagate is a scandal whose component parts have been disproven over time, but the guts of Iran-Contra have never been disproven.

This is what it is.  I'm not, however, going to let Mitt Romney be lionized.  His hypocrisy and double standards are the stuff of legends.  And if Trump is THAT BAD, Romney has never leveled with the American people as to exactly why.