Trump commutes Roger Stone sentence

[Landslide Lyndon]

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

[ProudModerate2]

... they had been so blinded by partisanship that they were no longer capable of reacting to current events with any semblance of objectivity. 

Yes. You have described Fuzzy perfectly.

[ProudModerate2]

I barely got through his first paragraph.
Let me guess, it was about "BLM and Antifa."

[Landslide Lyndon]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

Come join us on the darkside, Lyndon.  We have sandwiches and ginger ale. 

[Earthling]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citzen".

[Earthling]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citzen".

I have been around here long enough to know you are not 'one of the good people'.

Saying that about yourself makes that very clear.

[Hindsight was 2020]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citzen".

No you just go crying to the mod forum everyday about any criticism you receive

[Nyvin]

Remember when you guys were celebrating the fact that he’d die in prison? Who’s laughing now?

I don't know who thought a 67 year old would die from a 40 month (3 year 4 months) prison sentence.

[Fuzzy Bear]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citizen".

No you just go crying to the mod forum everyday about any criticism you receive

Only the criticism that crosses over into ad hominem attacks and libel, both of which are a violation of the ToS.

That you can't attack me without violating the ToS is a testimony to your lack of arguing skills.

I don't report people for criticizing me.  I do report people for personally attacking me and libeling me, as you have.

[PSOL]

Mods, can you pimpslap the people here to get this thread on-topic?

[cg41386]

Bradley Manning (who committed far worse crimes) had his sentence commuted so how is commuting the sentence of an old man who committed a relatively minor crime somehow terrible?

Also lol at people thinking this will cause voters to turn against Trump - everyone will have forgotten by next week let alone by November.

Chelsea, she.

[DrScholl]

Being old is not a reason to be let out of prison.

[Santander]

Biden/Romney 2020

[Hindsight was 2020]

"When Atlas Talk Elections sends its posters, they’re not sending their best.  They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of s---posts to their credit, and they’re bringing those s---posts with them. They’re bringing trolls. They’re bringing posts devoid of any effort. They’re gaslighters. And some, I assume, are good people."

Wow! A shocking moment of self-reflection by fuzzy.
I'm impressed.

I'm one of the good people.  You're not, quite frankly, but there are other niches in my post that you can fit in.

No, you are not. Far from it, even.

Opinions vary.

The body of my posting hasn't been confined to ad hominem attacks on other posters.  The longer you're here, you'll understand that Landslide Lyndon can't say that.

Check back with me when you attain the lofty designation of "Concerned Citizen".

No you just go crying to the mod forum everyday about any criticism you receive

Only the criticism that crosses over into ad hominem attacks and libel, both of which are a violation of the ToS.

That you can't attack me without violating the ToS is a testimony to your lack of arguing skills.

I don't report people for criticizing me.  I do report people for personally attacking me and libeling me, as you have.

Actually of all my deleted posts none are related to you so the mods disagree that my criticisms of you violate the TOS. If you want a more political debate the problem becomes that your positions on Trump get so cartoonishly partisan that it’s hard to tell if you’re even engaging in good faith or not.

Take for example the topic of this thread. This argument of yours that you’re okay with Trump commuting Stones’ sentence because BLM has destroyed the concept of “rule of law” as a serious issue is ludicrous. The riots started in May yet Trump has been pulling crap like this for 3 years now and you’ve defended it every single time. There was no riots when he fired Comey but you were okay with that. No riots when he was caught illegally paying hush money to a mistress but you defended him then. There were no riots during Ukrainegate and not only did you defend him then but you also cheered on him retaliating against people who testified against him. You’ve been defending Trump’s assault on the rule of law from the start so to suggest you only don’t care now because of BLM is absurd

[Meclazine for Israel]

The Fuzz is back kickin' heads.

Welcome back.

Anything that makes Adam Schiff's blood boil is OK with me. Spoilt piece of garbage was on the news carrying on like a little kid who did not get his lollies. Just no character to do much but criticise others.

[SteveRogers]

*snip*

I'm fine with commutation of this sentence.  Stone deserves a new trial due to bias issues with the jury foreperson, but one isn't forthcoming due to the bias of an activist Obama appointee. *snip*

With all due respect, the quoted part of your post is "1+1= Eleventy-Twix" level absurd.  I mean, it simply has no objective basis in reality.  I'm sorry, but there is no way that any reasonable person could honestly believe the quoted part of your post unless they had been so blinded by partisanship that they were no longer capable of reacting to current events with any semblance of objectivity.  

The rule of law matters more than partisan loyalty, no matter who is in charge.  I know there was a time when you still knew this on some level because you opposed Kavanaugh's confirmation and I don't know what happened, but I really hope you put down the kool-aid because it has been really sad to watch.

You ask what's happened to me.

There are three (3) types of Atlas Left.  One is the deranged sort; runeghost, is the classic example, but there are others in his league.  (AtorBoltox comes to mind.)  They are unreachable, and they are the sort of people that give me the creeps in real life.  (Chancellor Gowron falls into this group; his hatred of Trump goes way beyond politics.)

The second (and larger type) are the Broken Record Technique Left.  Badger.  Harry.  Joe Republic.  Frodo (who has lied about me on this forum and refuses to acknowledge it).  Dr. Scholl.  The whole lot of Hyena Packers.  They repeat lies over and over again to where they become axioms.  You know this; you've SEEN this.  Between this group, and the group above, I don't expect anything more.

Then we come to the group that has actually disappointed me. It's the group of reasonable liberals who don't reflexively hate America who are needed to be the last bastion of common sense in America today that aren't showing up for that role because they can't get past their personal hatred for Trump.  

You talk about the rule of law.  Since late May, there have been Massive Riots in our cities.  Not "mostly peaceful protests", but Massive Disturbances that include rioting, looting, false imprisonment of citizens, attempted home invasions (the McCloskeys of St. Louis) in which a prosecutor threatens the victims for exhibiting their weapons in self-defense in the face of an angry mob when police presence was not forthcoming), vandalism of public property on a massive scale, and destruction of statues which manifests the worst sort of iconoclastic behavior that is never a good omen for society, and the destruction of private homes and businesses for no reason.  Oh, and the forced takeover of police precincts in several cities, together with unparalelled attacks on police attempting to keep order, the charging with murder of a police officer who shot a fleeing arrestee who turned around and fired the officer's taser at him, an act that the prosecutor, himself, is previously on record as saying was legal under Georgia Law.  This is what I've watched on TV.

The response to this mob (led by BLM and Antifa in an organized effort) by elected officials has been to order Law Enforcement to stand down and not actively protect the property of people, as if private property isn't a Constitutional Right.  The response of Corporate America is to actually finance the Mob, as well as giving it all the moral support it needs.  The response to the Mob by elected officials has been to defend their right to protest without social distancing, in disregard of prohibitions on public gatherings.  It's not a false statement to say that you can march with BLM and Antifa, but you can't go to church in many places.  You tell me how that's right.

The end result is that there is no way to be Pro-Biden and Anti-Mob.  Biden has not condemned the  mob; he has waffled, and has embraced BLM and denied the rioting to where it is presently not possible to be pro-Biden and anti-Mob.  Apparently, Biden has been told by his handlers that he needs the "enthusiasm" of blacks and the Sanders crowd to win, and he's trying to not jeopardize it.  And he's not alone.  THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE HERSELF couldn't bring herself to condemn the toppling of statues as law-breaking.  "People will do what they do." says Pelosi on the lawlessness.  It's OK because SHE doesn't really care about statues.  Is that her attitude toward private homes and businesses that have been trashed by BLM/Antifa rioting?  Those aren't statues; they represent the safety and sustenance of individuals and their families.  Is "People do what they do." what we tell private citizens whose lives have been broken by the mob?  Rayshard Brooks resisted a lawful arrest, took an officer's weapon, and he's lionized in death.  David Dorn is killed by the mob and he's not even a footnote; his life didn't matter to Al Sharpton.  (Indeed, only black lives that serve the narrative matter to BLM.)

You have been silent on the issue of lawlessness in the streets.  Is silence consent?  If so, you have consented in the riots.  If silence is not consent; if it represents time for contemplation, then what have you contemplated?  Have you contemplated the pain of Americans whose lives, homes, and property have been destroyed by rioters for no reason?  Have you contemplated the mental trauma inflicted by Mobs on individuals who have been falsely imprisoned, not allowed to leave unless they renounced their privilege or uttered some proper phrase?  (Not to mention people who were just flat-out physically battered by Mobs?  The entire Justice System moved immediately for George Floyd (rightly) and Rayshard Brooks (somewhat questionably), but it hasn't moved at all for thousands who have directly suffered at the hands of rioters and it has actually turned against the McCloskeys, who sought to protect their home against an angry mob of 100 who broke down an iron gate and invated their property, threatening to kill them and kill their dog.

If you're for the rule of law, start opposing the Mob at every turn on this forum.  This forum is full of people who provide apologia for today's BLM/Antifa Mob Violence.  Stand up to them.  Take the posture that (A) the violence is wrong, (B) it needs to stop now, (C) tranquility is a requirement for any kind of discussion on any of the issues they raised, and (D) you support Law Enforcement in doing what is necessary to restore order in ALL cities.  And you could also state that whatever restrictions on activity that apply to churchgoers ought to apply to "peaceful protesters" as well.  If I must go to Sunday School on Zoom, they can "have their voices heard" on Zoom as well.  It's not as powerful on Zoom?  Neither is church.

The tough part of standing for Equality and Equality under the Law is doing so when it hurts your preferred candidate.  There are two (2) sides to the Roger Stone issue, but it's optics.  You'll forgive me, however, if I find Roger Stone and Donald Trump to be more sympathetic to MY rights and MY liberties.  That doesn't justify them, or anyone else, being dismissive of other people's rights and liberties, but just WHO is on the side of those whose rights BLM and Antifa have violated?

If you want to convince me that it's possible to be Pro-Biden and anti-Mob, be the change.  Condemn the Mob, condemn it unequivocally, and do it here, where people will not understand, but be forced to listen.  Condemn it without reference to "both sides".  Mob rule hasn't been OK when it came to Cliven Bundy; why is it OK when it comes to BLM and Antifa?  Stand!  I'll have your back, and you may convince me that the Democratic Party isn't hijacked beyond repair.  Because right now, having voted almost straight Democratic (I voted for my Safe R Congressman in a parochial vote.) last time out, I have trouble imagining myself voting for any Democrat ever again.  I'm not drinking Kool-Aid.  But the Democratic Party isn't sending me the message that they "care more about people like yourself" by its actions.  

Nobody is going to take your bait. It’s clear that you don’t have an argument to back up your original argument that Roger Stone’s trial was somehow tainted, so you resorted to your old trick of changing the thread subject entirely by posting a wall of text having nothing to do with the topic at hand. And now in response to someone calling you out for derailing the thread, you’re going to respond with “something something echo chamber.” Everyone knows your whole schtick. No one wants to engage with it anymore. So why did you bother coming back?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Of course the trial was tainted:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/roger-stone-juror-justice-department-anti-trump-social-media

If a black defendant was tried in Montgomery, AL, for similar behavior on the Obama campaign, and the Jury Foreman (a former GOP political candidate) made similarly charged social media posts against Obama and failed to disclose this during voir dire, there would be a hue and cry over the fairness of the verdict.  That hue and cry would not be eased if, say, the Judge who upheld it was, say, an associate of Jeff Sessions and a Republican appointee.  Fairness would be an issue, and rightfully so.

I'm willing to think twice on commuting Stone's sentence, but not on the unfairness of his jury.  It is hard for me to see how this juror didn't perjure herself during voir dire, outside of incompetance of counsel.

[ugabug]

https://twitter.com/RVAT2020/status/1281949701349289984

[pppolitics]

Robert Mueller: Roger Stone remains a convicted felon, and rightly so

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/11/mueller-stone-oped/?arc404=true

[Badger]

Pardons need not be revisited.  The possibility of a Pardon is the ONLY hope for those imprisoned or facing execution who are actually innocent.  Actual innocence is not a ground for appeal, and it is often not used to grant a new trial if the defendant entered a "best interest" plea to, say, avoid the Death Penalty, settle for 25 years rather than 70 years, etc.

I'm fine with commutation of this sentence.  Stone deserves a new trial due to bias issues with the jury foreperson, but one isn't forthcoming due to the bias of an activist Obama appointee.  We can't all be Maximum John Sirica, a conservative Republican who stuck it to Watergate defendants, now can we?

There's a difference between a case a POTUS has absolutely no connection to, and what happened here. This was clearly a pardon done with corrupt intent -- to show Stone, and any past or future collaborator, that there are rewards for taking one for the President. And that is a message that will reverberate throughout the future, enabling corruption in Republican and Democratic administrations yet to come. This will have to be rectified if America is to continue to be a country governed by laws.

Honestly, I'm baffled that people here think this is OK, that this is just the way it is, and that an earnest attempt to undergird our fundamental laws and values is just a "waste" of "political capital". You guys are a bunch of jokers. Seriously, its embarrassing.

What’s embarrassing is your out of touch take. The public didn’t care about Manafort and that was pre virus. They will not care about Stone with high unemployment, lack of clarity about schools and general virus fears. Newsflash, trumps shenanigans are already baked in at this point into the public’s opinion of him. Who’s flipping their vote after sticking with trump 3.5 years because of stone?  Pontificating about America’s future as a nation just distracts from what will actually change the future - the campaign and election.

You are so wrong — the election is partly about America’s future as a nation (and a referendum on Trump) and so  the potential for future presidents to act with corrupt intent and then pardon their henchmen is entirely worth raising. But yeah OK I guess the only things that matter are ones that the general public closely follow. Eye roll. I’m not saying Biden needs to get out there and make this his stump speech, but I want it to be something that is addressed should he become president.

Belated Welcome to The Forum, and please post far more often.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Casual observation that when the rule of law is destroyed, vigilante justice is - by definition - all that remains.

Which would be appropriate in this case, since he is basically a Batman villain.