Minor Party and Independent General Election Discussion

[PSOL]

The Green Party is definitely going to go through some purges of it’s membership. For the best, I suppose, but it’s disappointing that Howie Hawkins is going to get astronomically fewer votes from all this, perhaps even a worse showing than 2008.

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Mark Charles has chosen Sedinam Moyowasifsa Curry as his VP. Yeah, so the Green Party performance this election isn’t looking very good what with 36% of the primary vote running their own campaign. I mean, probably the vast majority of Green Party members will just see the frontrunner as the only option, but in such conditions as now, even a loss of slight support makes all the difference.

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Mark Charles has chosen Sedinam Moyowasifsa Curry as his VP. Yeah, so the Green Party performance this election isn’t looking very good what with 36% of the primary vote running their own campaign. I mean, probably the vast majority of Green Party members will just see the frontrunner as the only option, but in such conditions as now, even a loss of slight support makes all the difference.

Jesus lmao the green party is completely collapsing

The Green Party started off as a party only united in terms of being pro-environment, which attracted a lot of diverse factions and personalities. It’s unsurprising that when the going gets rough, it finally sheds the excess.

Considering that the Green Party is at risk of losing new age types, trust fund babies, and Ba’athists—maybe this is a good thing for the party overall in the long term. No more will the detractors of the party point to the loopy personalities anymore. That, and I’m hearing rumblings that they’re going to introduce a dues system to actually finance campaigns on the local level.

I seriously think this will be the lowest vote total for 3rd parties in a Presidential election. No serious candidates for the Libertarian or Green Party.

Howie Hawkins is a war veteran and trade unionist angling for #buster types, he’s a far better candidate than the new age eye doctor on paper.

[PSOL]

Green Party and Libertarian Party file joint lawsuit fighting ballot access restrictions

One area of bipartisan agreement among the Democratic and Republican parties is ensuring no competition is possible to arise anywhere.

[PSOL]

Leonard Peltier has ceased being apart of the PSL ticket for health reasons

This Sunil Freeman guy is basically a no name in who the party usually promotes, so I’m guessing they chose him because he’s far up the hierarchy in the Washington D.C. branch, a branch that was the original branch of the WWP after the East Coast that split from the WWP to form the PSL in the first place.

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Darlene Elias and SMC replaces as VPs’ on the respective Dario Hunter and Mark Charles tickets

This is probably good news for the Green Party ticket.

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So this is happening

Jimmy Dore is also a guest speaker.

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It’s odd knowing that Brock Pierce is doing better at getting on the ballot then Kanye West, although I don’t see him doing better in getting more voters then him.

I have to hand it to the SWP for their persistence as a micro-sect to be on the ballot.

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I’m surprised the Green Party or the PSL couldn’t make it on the ballot in Washington, considering their  presence in the East. Exactly what are the requirements to get on the ballot anyway?

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https://mobile.twitter.com/HowieHawkins/status/1296840275759955969

It would be interesting if the Electoral poles morph into permanent alliances afterwards. I could see, if they won’t just merge into each other, Alliance and Reform could collaborate on local and national elections. While I doubt consolidation is impossible with the electoral pole backing Howie Hawkins considering that they’ve shown that they’re deadset to continue on. I mean, SPUSA made a new newsletter and SAlt has just recently achieved electoral success that propelled them to relevance.

At this point, LUP and PFP are social clubs that are willing to keep giving PSL ballot access, so they’ll probably continue to cease relevance and disband when most of the members are either dead or PFP becomes a coating for the PSL because they’re worried they won’t be popular running on their own.

[PSOL]

The more time passes, the more obvious truths and trends become.

The level of ballot suppression we’ve seen so far has pretty huge implications for the future trajectory of “serious” third party runs for all offices. For one, with ballot restrictions continuously going up as both parties engage in #bipartisan suppression, the notion that electoral pole alliances being the norm is probably going to continue for parties and “lanes” that aren’t sufficient with resources to get on the ballot and/or are very clannish. The Libertarians don’t need to engage in this tactic as they’re more wealthier backers are pretty loaded to help with legal fights and campaigning. However, poles for independent social democrats and liberals will probably further work together, if not merge entirely to save resources. The Reform Party and Alliance, if the former doesn’t get absorbed unwillingly to the latter through state party defections, has a nonzero chance of merging after the election. If so, that would put them at more than 7000+ members and the go to party for disaffected moderate liberals who aren’t very socially conservative.

Now I’m going to make some predictions on where everything is heading:

The Libertarian Party is in the best position in their entire history. Making it in all states and territories, they finally have a candidate that represents the party and isn’t a washed up celebrity that was once a Republican. The only party that is actually well funded to be a major political force, I expect them to pick up momentum as a force in American politics, at least on the State and local level at first.

The future for the Green Party probably won’t be as bleak as I first thought. While they will have a pretty bad showing this election, in no way getting past 700,000 voters but not being as low as 400,000, they might actually get through this election in one piece. The splitters’ campaigns are heading nowhere and aren’t as able to get cash to fuel themselves after 2020. Most likely they’ll just leave the party without taking much in the way with them to irrelevance. With a dues system being likely after the election, they would have a path in maintaining their status as a relevant force of the Left completely outside of the Democratic Party. However, they are not as alone for that mantle...

The Socially Liberal, economic moderate electoral pole is here to stay. Managing not to be a personality cult that expires after one election, the Delta Party is now (an) Alliance. I can only see them going up as they’re probably the only group in their lane with that many members. I expect further mergers into them, unlike the other parties talked about here.

The American Solidarity Party has found a niche that was long coming. With religious morals apparently absent from both parties, religious voters too opposed to being in a party without all members being cisgendered heterosexuals or not fascists with mortal idols.

... as the Party of Socialism and Liberation are their main competitors for the presidency. Being the most major cadre organization in the country, the PSL exists to get voters from almost exclusively Marxist-Leninists. However, with them being #2 on the Left outside of engaging with the Democrats, I guess they come into competition with people bordering on being trots? There’s a nonzero chance of intersection, and if they manage to score 100,000 votes, there’s only a matter of time before some further recognition of the existence of the two. Given that the party is pulling a Lutte Ouvreire, in almost exclusively participating in executive races, time will tell if their strategy will pay off.

The Constitution Party is doomed to irrelevance in no more than two cycles from now. After state disaffiliation after state disaffiliation and a party split this cycle more relevant than what is being faced in the Green Party, I don’t view them as having the ability to turn the ship around. Most likely is that they further fall into irrelevance as their voters crawl into the Republican Party using similar rhetoric as they do.

As both Ds and Rs are engaging in next level ballot suppression techniques, I fully expect we won’t get another major party or movement for a while. Electoral politics just won’t be doable for groups without the funding and devotion to gather signatures, register voters, raise funds, and have the means to fend off them being thrown out of the ballot in court. This could lead to either more consolidation, mergers, and electoral alliances on all levels if one is an optimist.

Ultimately, 2020 is going to be a major turning point in the history of third parties.

[PSOL]

The American Solidarity Party has found a niche that was long coming. With religious morals apparently absent from both parties, religious voters too opposed to being in a party without all members being cisgendered heterosexuals or not fascists with mortal idols.

That's an uncharitable characterization of them, as any. If the ASP was simply an ultra-reactionary theocratic social conservative party then they could simply vote for Constitution, or for any of the many many minor far-right parties that exist across America.

Yes it's very important to note the ASP is fairly left-wing economically.  I won't deny people of faith are dominant, but it's not your mainstream prosperity gospel type of Christian.

They’re much further right than most Western European Christian Democratic parties socially. As it’s evident, they definitely fill a niche.

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What's the deal with the psl lol. Hate cadre parties but curious nonetheless

Cadre parties are the only way these small leftist organizations survive and have a chance to grow on their own, but ok.

The Party of Socialism and Liberation is arguably the largest Marxist-Leninist organization in Yankeedom, with online estimates putting the organization at 4-5k members. Compared to the sea of other organizations, the PSL has had a steady and stable history in its short life since 2004-ish.

Founded not long after the death of Sam Marcy, the leading theorist and co-founder apart of the Workers World Party—the PSL originates from the Washington D.C. and Cali Bay branches of the party. This foundation is still present as the organization’s ticket represents this, as Gloria La Riva is from the bay and Sunil Freeman from the capital. The split arose mainly out of two things; the complete abject failure for the WWP to actually be relevant at doing anything and the egos of Gloria La Riva, Eugene Puryear, and others in smelling blood in the water. So the split happened, and the PSL has grown quite strong at the expense of the WWP and the old Socialist Workers Party. It’s organized, tightly controlled structure and quirks leads to how it got “here”.

The PSL, from all one will hear about on the internet about them, is at first glance a negative anomaly on the Left. Tightly controlled by its Central Committee, local chapters allegedly cannot even talk to one another. The PSL is apparently more noticeable in its protest tactics, hoping to stand out and walk closely among themselves, never “spreading out”. They have been criticized for not having any Left Unity™️ and for that fake statement that the PSL will take all your money (not even their leaked platform has it). The PSL is basically led by La Riva. That and their members are annoying on Twatter.

Like the DSA, the size and success of their real and imaginary deviations have rewarded them with great success. They have survived in an age where possible members just go get involved in the processes of the Democratic Party (kinda) and are a permanent fixture of the scene. Their policies ensure that while they grow more than other parties of their ideology, factionalism and sex pests aren’t exactly a thing like the Red Guards, ISO, CS Socialists, and the future probable collapse of PCUSA. While they’re activities are mainly holding up cardboard signs at protests they don’t start aside from ANSWER events, it’s rewarded them greatly.

Well while they should be critically examined as being the largest face of the Left, they don’t exactly fit into a nice box. Local chapters do engage with other groups, as is the most evident with Washington D.C. where Eugene Puryear ran as a candidate for the local Green Party. Also, y’know, the world they did during the primaries for Bernie Sanders. There does seem to be change coming though for the more serious stuff. After this article among other criticism, change and “clarification” occurred. They got a differentiated line and now have a sleek operation going on Twitter.

All this has led to the authorities from taking notice. From being attacked by Cointelpro’d Red Guards to recently having activists arrested on trumped up charges, it seems that they’re as “legit” in the eyes of the federal law enforcement to counteract. They still aren’t up their with the Green Party in being attacked electorally though.
Well, well; looky here. Now how is the response to this not the Left being united. Also apparently the fact that international organizations have taken notice
So Howie Hawkins got the endorsement of like three chapters of the DSA; Colorado Springs, Peoria, and I believe another on the east coast. This is quite interesting as it’s happening alongside the collaboration of the Green Party and DSA in getting Franca Muller Paz elected. This could be a sign of what’s to come in the future.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FrancaMullerPaz

Anyway, on something a little more analytical and irrelevant, not all Trotskyist organizations are down with Howie Hawkins. This article basically calling the Green Party useless, do nothing social democrats that one should not vote out of lesser evilism. Outside of the fact that I can probably expect a very real Gloria La Riva endorsement, it does show that not everyone is ok with the Vietnam peaceniks now fully in charge of the Green Party. One can also look at The Grayzone’s Ben Norton to see that kind of skepticism. Heck, even among “endorsements” such as SAlt, they still don’t like them. Contrasting with the electoral pole around Rocky De La Fuente/Darcy Richardson, yeah...
Well I might as well give my opinion and analysis on the third party debate hosted by the Free & Equal Foundation.

I’m firstly angered at the fact that the American Solidarity Party was rejected to the debates ahead of Kanye West, whose campaign team probably doesn’t even check their emails. The ASP is at least a movement that fills a niche in the American political scene, while Kanye West ain’t exactly it and probably won’t even make it to the debates. They should change the debates to prioritize political parties over write-in candidates or lower the standards to 8 states to get them in. The ASP nominee is an actually good debater, which sucks this upcoming race

The debate stage will realistically resemble the former debate, but one can dream. With there being quite more official criticism of the strategies of both the Green Party and PSL, along with a very tight field this year, I’m hoping for a clash instead of stump speeches to the crowd. The Green Party and PSL both are very flawed parties running very flawed candidates that the leftist, uneducated-voter bases of both don’t fully know about. The stance with the DSA/Democratic party, factional grips, ideological quirks, party strategy—the list goes on and on.

I think that with the stakes being so high, if there’s no clash, there will be no collaboration. There were moments of positive recognition between Mark Charles and Gloria La Riva, along with Zoltan Istvan defending progress spoken of coming from the Green and La Riva side from that Constitution Party fail!nominee Krauthammer.

I would be surprised if there’s any attacks by the other parties on the Left debaters, or among each other. Brock Pierce is a wildcard among this. More importantly, exactly how would they attack each other? Will Rocky call the plans of Jojo unrealistic? I don’t particularly know, but I’m guessing what is good won’t come to be true.
I’m calling all of you shy folks out there to contribute if you have any information outside of BAN and IPR. I know that y’all—Sparkey, VPH, AltWorlder, StateBoiler, Mr. Reactionary, Mikado, beaver 2.0, etc.—either have been doing this longer than I was or you actually are members of these parties. This thread is the only niche place where the usual partisan dolts won’t invade our space that badly. We’ve lost a lot of conversation by apparently the people deciding for us that Kanye’s campaign didn’t belong here, and it is crucial that this thread gets semi active with more posts not originating from updates on IPR or BAN.

Specifically; there has been little information on what the ASP or electoral pole among Rocky/Darcy is doing.

[PSOL]

how likely is the psl to actually achieve 100,000 votes? I take it most of those would be from California again, or would the increase be more disparate geographically?

It will be mostly from California, but who knows what is going to happen. Anecdotally they’re continuing to grow rapidly and have efficient ground game. There hasn’t been any splits as a result of aiding Bernie Sanders’s campaign nor do they have any competition for electoral politics from M-L parties or even Trots.

However, given that the pandemic theoretically leaves them and their membership restricted in their normal campaigning, there is a chance that they could not make it to 100k. It’s all up in the air till election time.

[PSOL]

how likely is the psl to actually achieve 100,000 votes? I take it most of those would be from California again, or would the increase be more disparate geographically?

It will be mostly from California, but who knows what is going to happen. Anecdotally they’re continuing to grow rapidly and have efficient ground game. There hasn’t been any splits as a result of aiding Bernie Sanders’s campaign nor do they have any competition for electoral politics from M-L parties or even Trots.

However, given that the pandemic theoretically leaves them and their membership restricted in their normal campaigning, there is a chance that they could not make it to 100k. It’s all up in the air till election time.

Interesting just because it would be funny for a leninist party to improve in a year where the 3rd party vote crashes.

I mean, when the Democratic Party is on an immense warpath during the biggest pandemic the country has faced in a while and the fact that the media won’t cover celebrities, yeah...

Also obligatory lmao, this is the benefit of a cadre organization

[PSOL]

Also they seem to even be on the ballot in a couple states where the Greens *aren't* on the ballot, namely Louisiana and Rhode Island. Could that have an effect on their strength in those two states vs the nation?

wrt the cadre party thing, I meant that I disapprove of cadre parties ideologically, as in I dislike leninists and authcoms generally, and I'm saying that as someone who would vote for non-auth communists if possible

Probably and probably not. I don’t think anyone really knows this other than party insiders and close members of each respective party that have interacted with the wider left. There’s also the fact that the answer probably only applies to a select few voters, mainly actual leftists among the Green Party and not the new agers or conspiracy loons. On the PSL, I doubt they’re members deviate, but their marginal supporters might now. Hopefully we get someone with more anecdotal knowledge to figure this out, like Donerrail.

Ultimately the second portion is out of scope for this thread, I highly suggest you ask bunkerchan about the benefits of a cadre organization along with the fact that Authcoms only exist in the minds of Vaush and his ilk.

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Zoltan Istvan left the party because it got taken over by the majority faction of trans humanists, major Beta lolberts who fetishize the master race while wanting to become one themselves.

They were smart in letting ASP in. Ultimately it boils down to in likelihood to participate

1 Vanguard wannabe party
1 Green Party
1 liberal party
1 christian democrat party
1 Bitcoin magnate
1 propertarian party
And 1 geriatric party

Given how I doubt Kanye West‘s handlers allows him to come to this, it’s going to be a full debate. I can’t stress enough how idiotic it would look in their context to bar the ASP. 7 candidates is enough for a full debate. Now let’s hope this debate differs from the norm.

[PSOL]

I honestly expect the crowds for these debates on F&E to be smaller as parties start backing one another or not even seriously making it now that the duopoly is on a warpath. Unless we see some major fracturing we could be looking at a world where only the upper crust of third parties makes it in any debate

C-SPAN would make sense. It's usually open to the wilder side of politics.

So out of the 10 candidates invited, obviously Trump and Biden won't show, and I'd be surprised if Blankenship (who seems to not actually be seriously running) or West (who may have forgotten he's running for President?) show up. 6 candidates would be a very reasonable number.

While not as major as the big networks, getting such a thing on air in C-SPAN or PBS would be a watershed moment for third parties. Finally some recognition to a wider audience.

I'm watching the 2004 debate and Walt Brown (the elderly Socialist candidate) is actually better composed than I thought, though still susceptible to rambling. The Constitution, Green, and Libertarian candidates are all very polished speakers and come off as very knowledgeable. Even though there's a slight bland middle-aged suited white men feel to them compared to say, the F&EF debate from earlier this year, they at least sound and act professional instead of as ideological amateurs. It makes me wonder if third party politics has suffered from clownish degeneration similar to what's happening in establishment politics.

Why was Brown even invited to that debate? He was way behind the other 3 when it comes to ballot presence, support, eventual votes.

Because it’s the Socialist Party, a relic of time, that would be embarrassing for anyone to notify them of their non-life

I honestly don't know how the fill the roster for a lot of these smaller debates. Guess they wanted to have more than 2-3 candidates. The 2012 F&EF debate included the Justice Party, but Rocky Anderson was at least the mayor of SLC.

It should prioritize parties before independents unless they have an electoral alliance around them, that’s for sure.

So parties backed by numerous parties > Singular party > indy with backup > regular indy > Indy celebrity

[PSOL]

What happened to the Justice Party?

It fizzled away in a whimper

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Constitution Party: It Is Time to Vote Strategically and to Make Our Voice Heard

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Constitution Party: It Is Time to Vote Strategically and to Make Our Voice Heard

The Constitution Party was doomed no matter what (is there really any appetite for "to the right of Donald Trump?"), but picking an absolute buffoon like Blankenship who like a third of Constitution Party affiliates are too embarrassed to even put on their ballots was a huge strategic error that threatens the long term existence of the party.

It’s basically dead already, they lost most of their local offices and their major state affiliates are leaving to preserve face.

Like, they picked a candidate too similar to Donald Trump and now they need to pay for that.

[PSOL]

https://www.leftvoice.org/can-the-green-party-be-a-vehicle-for-socialists-a-european-perspective

https://www.leftvoice.org/guest-post-a-socialists-case-for-howie-hawkins

[PSOL]

Even before Blankenship, the Constitution Party was headed for irrelevance:

God and Country: 36 hours with the dying embers of the Constitution Party

I see that's an MTV article. MTV could've easily written that title for their own demise.

I mean, are they wrong? There is no life or care in the party right now, and they haven’t influenced diddly squat.

At least the Boomers in the Green Party managed to get the Green New Deal in the popular lexicon and garner more than a million votes. What positive outlooks or fresh ideas does the constitution Party even have To improve in the coming years?

[PSOL]

I'm voting Howie Hawkins as a first time voter. Who's with me?

Eh, I come and go. But it’s split between him and the other flawed major leftist ticket or abstention.

[PSOL]

I'm voting Howie Hawkins as a first time voter. Who's with me?

Eh, I come and go. But it’s split between him and the other flawed major leftist ticket or abstention.

who are you referencing here?

The Meme Vanguard party